11-22-2017, 11:05 PM
[quote='Suzu99' pid='8964' dateline='1511332408']
I have a 1999 1.6 Esteem wagon with identical problems that Dylan 1303 listed on the Suzuki forum
-- engine sputters at high revs. (sputters, is misfire) is it?
if consider a full tuneup , a 60k mile tune listed in the service manual>?
spark plugs gapped to .028" never use out of the box gaps.
wire set , good qual. not $5 set.
cap
rotor/??? this is always first on sputters, called misfire, !
With mine it keeps running, but then keeps sputtering at lower and lower revs and eventually quits. (stalls the engine stalls?)>????
or is it bogging, bogging feels like pulling 2000 lb dead weight?
Next day it's fine until it's warms up -- and repeats same.
thats odd, usually bad spark is worse cold, please define sputters, thanks.
It does seem to run hot, as problems start when it reaches about 207 degrees. (IR thermal gun read? howd you get 207 exact degrees not off any suzuki dash ever)
180F thermostats is peck here, its a bad thermostat for a start, here, 1st things see bad, replace, is wise. now.
I live in northern Canada, and discovered that when the outside temperature drops below freezing, the problem disappeared
Like Dylan, I went to several mechanics who couldn't identify problem. (not one offered a tuneup? how odd that is.)
best is to forget Dylan, his car is not your car, see? each car this old usually has 10 problems igorned for 10 years, so each car is UNIQUE !!!
not only that , you can drive is car, and see , feel nor hear his car sputter. sorry but it s best to use only your posts clean fresh and never mix yours
with or posts, and is called hyjacking a post, and is only fuel for CHAOS. sorry..
He has a bad (CMP) e, but never posted his DTC codes, so, maybe it was not that but the CKP sensor, CRANK who knows, I cant see his hands in the distributor, at all.
your 1999 esteem is the G16B engine aka G16KV (it runs a MAF sensor to calculate fuel rates) It is twin cam G16?
first off , the ECU is not bad, it would be the last possible thing if ever.
the first thing you did wrong is not giving it full tune up, and check the cam belt for bad, as ALL DO at 60,000 miles +
Then scan the PCM with any OBD2 scan tool. even after you drive it. 3 times (OBD2 needs 2 to 3 driving trips, cold to hot , to shore many codes) a fact.
and key to seeing P030x codes called the misfire codes. what if you got P0303, then youd know cylinder 3 was misfiring, and to focus like a laser on that #3. see?>
Question to everybody: Why is problem fixed due to freezing outside temperature?
In non-freezing temperatures the car would only run for about 15 minutes -- (you meant it stalls?)
if put under some high revs to bring coolant temperature up to 207.
Now, in freezing weather, the temperature doesn't get that high, and the car works fine, even under high revs. Is it a sensor problem?
can be why work on any OBD2 car and not own a scan tool for $20- to 100 bucks?
A gummed up throttle? NO ,its not that, all that does is make power weak at wide open throttle. say 10% lost power only at full speed
Yes I know its the holy grail with ave folks but is not it. thing about it a minute, if the TV has restrictions, only air is reduced , not fuel until
at WOT, and only power is reduced, a tad. and not the fuel fix every, it ill not misfire with gunk in the throttle bore. ever.
only loss of air , at WOT due to the reduced throttle body, bore size.
nor did the gunk prevent you from opening the throttle, after all your foot works and opens said valve, and does not stop your foot.
then what if the valve fails to close, well that is simple the idle speeds are not too high (ONLY) with full power on demand and with no sputtering ever
ever see how race engines are too big in a race and the race managers make one guy use throttle plate to reduce his TV bore to make his larger illegal race engine more like the others that are smaller, how does that work, see above, is why. so lets forget the internet myths of gun in bore thing and all that huge work fixing a non-problem here.
I did have catalytic converter removed about a year before problems began. (that act kills dead the EGR, on Vaccum power EGR but not the electric motor EGR)
Last mechanic worked for free, and thinks it could be EGR, or faulty computer. (he is only guessing, why guess???????? sad how he never once scanned it, how sad)
I did previously replace computer (from a salvage yard) when problem initially presented, but it didn't improve, so I put original computer back in. HOW SAD THAT, last on the list of causes but is first, $400 cost here in USA, wow)
what if your car was 1988 and no ECU, what would you do for sputter, the answer is not ECU, but DOING BASICS, see end page for that.
Has small oil leak in area I believe close to camshaft control ( right top side of transverse engine as facing engine from front) where camshaft sensor plugs into (when sensor is unplugged engine would die -- naturally). the CMP sensor, that is. and some overheat and die, the recover, but the Scan tool tells you it did. every time.
So, to summarize, freezing outside temperature seems to fix problem -- which is what? (CMP)
It's not the coils, as I bought one, and then changed out remaining coil in different positions.
Timing belt changed 4 years ago (miles?). 10k per year, 30k on new'ish belt.
Car has just less than 100,000 miles (around 160,000 kilometers).
Note: none of mechanics knew about freezing outside temperatures fixing problem, as I just recently stumbled across it.
what I do and don't know, after all i cant drive, it. feel it ,hear it and see the engine shake. from misfire minor up to total dead spark, stalls. stalls is a key word
I presume it misfires
and that the engine stalls when too hot. 207f will not kill then engine, but 195 thermostats are sold for this car.
its not the missing cat, for sure.
it's not the cam belt its only 30k. (if was a gates belt and not the from EBAY china $5 belt called "som ting wong"brand. i can buy 10 crap belts easy, and know better.
You never gave it a full 60k mile tuneup, why replace any ECU skipping such a simple thing, as skipping tuneups, as 99% of car owners do, and fail. even just park plugs
with spark plugs in hand we read them the grand art of how to they look called evidence, black/white,tang,gray,oil soaked,green (or your color) antifreeze soaked or see physical damage to the tips.>> this is all part of basics.
my guess is the engine is ok, no need to do a compression test, or worry about valve lash done or not dune at the 60k mile new belt cam checks>
and that spark it bad,
spark bad is misfire, or total loss of spark ,fuel can not burn when spark is bad, its not a diesel.
so spark
the next act after any tuneup would be to scan it.
buy ,beg ,barrow, or rent a scan tool OBD2, see that connector under the dash. there/ the OBD2 shaped connector.
scan it, see P3xx errors, do not pull the dome fuse or car battery before you scan it or you lose all that important data.
is the CEL lamp glowing running? most this old are burned out now, so
KEY on CEL glow, if not it burned out, and the scan tool does the same thing, line one , shows, CEL = ACTIVE.
in canada , they dont glow the CEL for misfire, says so in the FSM book.
so my next question is this car CANADA or USA???? the fire wall has oak leave tags that are only on CANADA real cars. you guys use both ours and your cars up there.
1: tuneup not done.
2: CMP may be bad.
3: not COPS (coil over plugs but the scan tool would have told you they were ok)
4: CKP bad, crank sensor.
5: injector issues. bad fuel.
now the cmp, cam sensor on end of one cam.
do not make these error below
the newer SUZUKI , must be timed with a SUZUKI SCAN system to time the CMP correctly , the timing freeze jumper DLC under hood deleted (this is first thing I look for)
The DLC jump connector with rubber cap.
what to do is this.
do not unbolt the main body of CMP (the PUCK) until you MACH mark it with a center punch tool and hammer, mark it and the head, aligned to each other
this is because 1/2 the CMP have no removable plastic CMP sensors there. and is all in one sensor PUCK
if the CMP is just plastic , on the side of the CMP puck then just replace it. 1 screw its out.
the hard CMP or easy CMP, i can see under your hood. so..........
photos 1: canada real tags
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/h...ge_15.html
next is CMP
THE FIRST CMP BY SUZUKI LOOKS LIKE THIS.
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/sipc448.jpg
the plastic parts do not remove, the whole PUCK must be changed and done so carefully to not lose the timing.
ask.
old style
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Sh...2-96-8.jpg
new has this, im told some cars it gets mixed old/new. oops
I will find both CMP and CMP partnumbers to see what they are and the CKP location
one some engines the CKP is buried behind the fly wheel, J engines. old.
I have a 1999 1.6 Esteem wagon with identical problems that Dylan 1303 listed on the Suzuki forum
-- engine sputters at high revs. (sputters, is misfire) is it?
if consider a full tuneup , a 60k mile tune listed in the service manual>?
spark plugs gapped to .028" never use out of the box gaps.
wire set , good qual. not $5 set.
cap
rotor/??? this is always first on sputters, called misfire, !
With mine it keeps running, but then keeps sputtering at lower and lower revs and eventually quits. (stalls the engine stalls?)>????
or is it bogging, bogging feels like pulling 2000 lb dead weight?
Next day it's fine until it's warms up -- and repeats same.
thats odd, usually bad spark is worse cold, please define sputters, thanks.
It does seem to run hot, as problems start when it reaches about 207 degrees. (IR thermal gun read? howd you get 207 exact degrees not off any suzuki dash ever)
180F thermostats is peck here, its a bad thermostat for a start, here, 1st things see bad, replace, is wise. now.
I live in northern Canada, and discovered that when the outside temperature drops below freezing, the problem disappeared
Like Dylan, I went to several mechanics who couldn't identify problem. (not one offered a tuneup? how odd that is.)
best is to forget Dylan, his car is not your car, see? each car this old usually has 10 problems igorned for 10 years, so each car is UNIQUE !!!
not only that , you can drive is car, and see , feel nor hear his car sputter. sorry but it s best to use only your posts clean fresh and never mix yours
with or posts, and is called hyjacking a post, and is only fuel for CHAOS. sorry..
He has a bad (CMP) e, but never posted his DTC codes, so, maybe it was not that but the CKP sensor, CRANK who knows, I cant see his hands in the distributor, at all.
your 1999 esteem is the G16B engine aka G16KV (it runs a MAF sensor to calculate fuel rates) It is twin cam G16?
first off , the ECU is not bad, it would be the last possible thing if ever.
the first thing you did wrong is not giving it full tune up, and check the cam belt for bad, as ALL DO at 60,000 miles +
Then scan the PCM with any OBD2 scan tool. even after you drive it. 3 times (OBD2 needs 2 to 3 driving trips, cold to hot , to shore many codes) a fact.
and key to seeing P030x codes called the misfire codes. what if you got P0303, then youd know cylinder 3 was misfiring, and to focus like a laser on that #3. see?>
Question to everybody: Why is problem fixed due to freezing outside temperature?
In non-freezing temperatures the car would only run for about 15 minutes -- (you meant it stalls?)
if put under some high revs to bring coolant temperature up to 207.
Now, in freezing weather, the temperature doesn't get that high, and the car works fine, even under high revs. Is it a sensor problem?
can be why work on any OBD2 car and not own a scan tool for $20- to 100 bucks?
A gummed up throttle? NO ,its not that, all that does is make power weak at wide open throttle. say 10% lost power only at full speed
Yes I know its the holy grail with ave folks but is not it. thing about it a minute, if the TV has restrictions, only air is reduced , not fuel until
at WOT, and only power is reduced, a tad. and not the fuel fix every, it ill not misfire with gunk in the throttle bore. ever.
only loss of air , at WOT due to the reduced throttle body, bore size.
nor did the gunk prevent you from opening the throttle, after all your foot works and opens said valve, and does not stop your foot.
then what if the valve fails to close, well that is simple the idle speeds are not too high (ONLY) with full power on demand and with no sputtering ever
ever see how race engines are too big in a race and the race managers make one guy use throttle plate to reduce his TV bore to make his larger illegal race engine more like the others that are smaller, how does that work, see above, is why. so lets forget the internet myths of gun in bore thing and all that huge work fixing a non-problem here.
I did have catalytic converter removed about a year before problems began. (that act kills dead the EGR, on Vaccum power EGR but not the electric motor EGR)
Last mechanic worked for free, and thinks it could be EGR, or faulty computer. (he is only guessing, why guess???????? sad how he never once scanned it, how sad)
I did previously replace computer (from a salvage yard) when problem initially presented, but it didn't improve, so I put original computer back in. HOW SAD THAT, last on the list of causes but is first, $400 cost here in USA, wow)
what if your car was 1988 and no ECU, what would you do for sputter, the answer is not ECU, but DOING BASICS, see end page for that.
Has small oil leak in area I believe close to camshaft control ( right top side of transverse engine as facing engine from front) where camshaft sensor plugs into (when sensor is unplugged engine would die -- naturally). the CMP sensor, that is. and some overheat and die, the recover, but the Scan tool tells you it did. every time.
So, to summarize, freezing outside temperature seems to fix problem -- which is what? (CMP)
It's not the coils, as I bought one, and then changed out remaining coil in different positions.
Timing belt changed 4 years ago (miles?). 10k per year, 30k on new'ish belt.
Car has just less than 100,000 miles (around 160,000 kilometers).
Note: none of mechanics knew about freezing outside temperatures fixing problem, as I just recently stumbled across it.
what I do and don't know, after all i cant drive, it. feel it ,hear it and see the engine shake. from misfire minor up to total dead spark, stalls. stalls is a key word
I presume it misfires
and that the engine stalls when too hot. 207f will not kill then engine, but 195 thermostats are sold for this car.
its not the missing cat, for sure.
it's not the cam belt its only 30k. (if was a gates belt and not the from EBAY china $5 belt called "som ting wong"brand. i can buy 10 crap belts easy, and know better.
You never gave it a full 60k mile tuneup, why replace any ECU skipping such a simple thing, as skipping tuneups, as 99% of car owners do, and fail. even just park plugs
with spark plugs in hand we read them the grand art of how to they look called evidence, black/white,tang,gray,oil soaked,green (or your color) antifreeze soaked or see physical damage to the tips.>> this is all part of basics.
my guess is the engine is ok, no need to do a compression test, or worry about valve lash done or not dune at the 60k mile new belt cam checks>
and that spark it bad,
spark bad is misfire, or total loss of spark ,fuel can not burn when spark is bad, its not a diesel.
so spark
the next act after any tuneup would be to scan it.
buy ,beg ,barrow, or rent a scan tool OBD2, see that connector under the dash. there/ the OBD2 shaped connector.
scan it, see P3xx errors, do not pull the dome fuse or car battery before you scan it or you lose all that important data.
is the CEL lamp glowing running? most this old are burned out now, so
KEY on CEL glow, if not it burned out, and the scan tool does the same thing, line one , shows, CEL = ACTIVE.
in canada , they dont glow the CEL for misfire, says so in the FSM book.
so my next question is this car CANADA or USA???? the fire wall has oak leave tags that are only on CANADA real cars. you guys use both ours and your cars up there.
1: tuneup not done.
2: CMP may be bad.
3: not COPS (coil over plugs but the scan tool would have told you they were ok)
4: CKP bad, crank sensor.
5: injector issues. bad fuel.
now the cmp, cam sensor on end of one cam.
do not make these error below
the newer SUZUKI , must be timed with a SUZUKI SCAN system to time the CMP correctly , the timing freeze jumper DLC under hood deleted (this is first thing I look for)
The DLC jump connector with rubber cap.
what to do is this.
do not unbolt the main body of CMP (the PUCK) until you MACH mark it with a center punch tool and hammer, mark it and the head, aligned to each other
this is because 1/2 the CMP have no removable plastic CMP sensors there. and is all in one sensor PUCK
if the CMP is just plastic , on the side of the CMP puck then just replace it. 1 screw its out.
the hard CMP or easy CMP, i can see under your hood. so..........
photos 1: canada real tags
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/h...ge_15.html
next is CMP
THE FIRST CMP BY SUZUKI LOOKS LIKE THIS.
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/sipc448.jpg
the plastic parts do not remove, the whole PUCK must be changed and done so carefully to not lose the timing.
ask.
old style
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Sh...2-96-8.jpg
new has this, im told some cars it gets mixed old/new. oops
I will find both CMP and CMP partnumbers to see what they are and the CKP location
one some engines the CKP is buried behind the fly wheel, J engines. old.
http://www.fixkick.com