Problem to start when the engine is hot

[LuisCarlos]

[quote='fixkick' pid='5025' dateline='1448719771']
my guess is the ISC has leakage paths that are different.
if have had many old one's that leaked horribly
and was just the rubber ring seat worn, so i see the 5mm hex so the spring just just a tiny bit more tight, and now it works like new. perfectly.
saving like $200 for the cost of a new one here.
I wonder if the Santana ISC or TB body, have some other deep hidden air paths. ?
That is correct. for mr, Pascal. trust nothing, and suspect all. even new parts can be bad or are upgrades?, that work differently.
I can hear your engine, it sounds very healthy, it's not misfiring,,,, at all.
and old TB has and Old center of body gaseket and that gasket for some odd reason loves to age, crack and suck on, and this happen as the bleed path.
this causes the TB to leak fresh air, and makes setting idle (and duty) very very hard. but yours is new, and not missing. or cracked.
we have no xray views of TB.
just this nice drawing, and shows no hidden fixed air bleeds.
this is the best drawing,,,, and is in the USA spec books.

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you do Great work, dogmatic, and like the RCMP , "we always get our man.".. (or in this case, the leaks , reconciled)

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i looked at your photos. nice high reso, photos, thanks ! very clear.
i see only one odd detail; the TV looks open too much to me, i see an air gap there, (ours don't have that large of gap)
maybe the Santana iSC is different and is tuned for the larger TV gap? or? not sure,
i re-read your text above.

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stalls fast with old ISC.
so the new ISC is different, that begs the question of how and why?
1: the factory skipped the calibration.
2: or it has some bypass feature inside? un documented.
3: is bad. or defective some how?

the above, tells me the TV gap is not too excessive, if it stalls. (as seen in Gallery+actuators)
any good, ISC can open and run the engine ok with bleed.
and the hand over air horn test, stalling it.
wow, where in thee world is that ISC air coming (new iSC) from, like Phantom!

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for sure you are on the right track,,
that hand or air horn test, is shocking, where is that air flowing? (before) with new ISC, we pinched the iSC, how on the world can the OLD ISC cure that...flow.
and more shocking, is why does the old ISC not stop that main air horn leak. very odd, this...
its like the new ISC has 2 air paths. but how?
very interesting all this....

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ok see our stock TV plate. brass plate.





butter fly plate... its 99.9% closed. (iSC + bleed do all the air)

Yes, almost 100 % closed..


here is my best view. (a curved slot is ok or just a hole for the vac. accessory port)
seen many like this, its all good, gap at bore is almost touching but not. all USA TB. (made at CAMI Canada, or Awata Japan)


The gasket is different because that vacuum port channel, but the effect is the same..

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on ours, if the large (marked iac/bleed) hole on left , If we block that someway, the engine stalls.
the 400cc air suck can not suck past the fly plate. and stalls. each suck, (engine air pump)
how ever the bleed screw if unscrewed full might run the engine, with ISC blocked.

Yes, it ccould breathe for that bleed scerw..

but that is how I find air leaks, with out smoke machines and spraying engine with dangerous liquid fuels. or the like.
once i cure the leaks, we can set duty cycle and it holds and works forever. (Pascal, permitting....lol)

Today, I'll do again that ISC air hose test, and bleed screw closed gently, but with the crankcase hose open and the entrance to the horn interrupted..

keep in mind all this works at any altitude.
even on PIKES Peak here. 14,000 feet....
the ISC must open near 100% there, to even run at all.

or in Spain 11089 feet. Veleta, (highest in Europe) 3380m

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My city Sevilla is at 7 meters above sea level..

and we had to use donkeys the last 2 miles. because if we tried to walk we fell down panting........very thin air there.
one of our most crazy trips. here.

I like donkeys and those snowy mountains..
Nice trip..

http://i2.wp.com/farm7.staticflickr.com/...=640%2C480
my guess is the Santana would stall......?


I don't know, but because this model is very odd, is possible that it continue running in that level..
As a Phantom..

check this out, feet .. OMG

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5019 meters, so high to some people is difficult to breathe at that level..


You can see a photo about dashboard in this vitara model, I never saw none like this..
And my first car Citroen 11, it was the first front-whell drive, I bought it in 1976, it had in that moment almos 30 years but circulating in Spain only, but I'didn't konw how long it had been circulating in France..
Perhaps, it was furty years or more about, I started learning mechanics with it..
That place is Sierra Nevada, 11414 feet, its engine didn't stalls, but was vert difficult to climb, that road has about 8530 feet, was in 1978..
I'm standing on the left side and the blus cap..
Sorry to insert that photo in gallery, I don't know how to insert here..
But I'll try how to do it..

bus was 200m lower...only.

Was very easy climb there..

OK, I'll go to the workshop now, I'll tell you what happened in the next chapter..

Cheers!!