Problem to start when the engine is hot

[LuisCarlos]

I wonder if the Santana ISC or TB body, have some other deep hidden air paths. ?

I don't konw if there are other secret air paths, but when I did ISC air hose test, I didn't closed connection from crankcase to the horn, maybe the engine didn't stall for that, because some gases passed to the intake manifold, I'll do again the same test clossing that entrance..

I can hear your engine, it sounds very healthy, it's not misfiring,,,, at all.

Good news, thanks, I hear it in right condition too..

and old TB has and Old center of body gaseket and that gasket for some odd reason loves to age, crack and suck on, and this happen as the bleed path.
this causes the TB to leak fresh air, and makes setting idle (and duty) very very hard. but yours is new, and not missing. or cracked.
we have no xray views of TB.

Of course, we haven't that futuristic device..

just this nice drawing, and shows no hidden fixed air bleeds.
this is the best drawing,,,, and is in the USA spec books.

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Yes, it's very clear to see all about fuel and air system..

you do Great work, dogmatic, and like the RCMP , "we always get our man.".. (or in this case, the leaks , reconciled)

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i looked at your photos. nice high reso, photos, thanks ! very clear.
i see only one odd detail; the TV looks open too much to me, i see an air gap there, (ours don't have that large of gap)
maybe the Santana iSC is different and is tuned for the larger TV gap? or? not sure,

Well, that gap in throttle valve is because D/P is pressing it, I removed TBI without disconnect D/P, so that gap than you marked with anarrow is normal, as you konw too..
That photo is a bit blurry, sorry, I had to hold TBI in a awkward position..



stalls fast with old ISC.
so the new ISC is different, that begs the question of how and why?
1: the factory skipped the calibration.
2: or it has some bypass feature inside? un documented.
3: is bad. or defective some how?



Yes, at least its hex is different, and the first new TBI went back to Santana again thinking it had a malfunction, but the second new TBI that came had the same problem..
So I'll say to the mech to call to Santana telling them what happen about those new TBI, perhaps they will know exactly for what they are differnet..
I forgot to tell you that that Suzuki Santana made a limited number of that model, the mech told me that, and you can't maybe believe that, but I never saw other model like this, you can see in gallery how is the dashboard in that model..



Tomorrow as the mech said I'll take the vitara again to the workshop, at the moment the ISC is still installed, so I'll take also the new ISC because I prefer the mech remove the seal from the new ISC hex sealed with silicone, first, because new TBI is under warranty six months total, and second, because maybe he want to test old ISC to compare with new TBI or to test it in OBD..
Anyway, is better he make everything about..


any good, ISC can open and run the engine ok with bleed.
and the hand over air horn test, stalling it.
wow, where in thee world is that ISC air coming (new iSC) from, like Phantom!


I don't think so that new ISC is air leaks, I think that hex is not in a right calibration, but I think we know everything about that Phantom when the mech test the old and new ISC, that will be maybe tomorrow, maybe he'll call to Santana to be sure what to do..


When I installed the old ISC and I started the engine hte idle were unbalanced, but I used the hex allen 5 milimenters and turned gently that hex, so I got to regulate idle to 800 r.p.m that's all..

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for sure you are on the right track,,

I think that too

that hand or air horn test, is shocking, where is that air flowing?

In that test the engine stalled..
The engine didn't stalled whe I did ISC air hose pinched, and bleed closed, but I think was because hose from crankcase was still connected, but I'll do that test again..



and more shocking, is why does the old ISC not stop that main air horn leak. very odd, this...
its like the new ISC has 2 air paths. but how?
very interesting all this....

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Yes, is a Sherlock Holmes case hitout still resolved..

ok see our stock TV plate. brass plate.

That gasket is different, it has a bleed cannal that don't have the other gasket, but in the other gasket that holes are blocked too....


Sorry, I must to go at once, I'll continue on this page later..


butter fly plate... its 99.9% closed. (iSC + bleed do all the air)


here is my best view. (a curved slot is ok or just a hole for the vac. accessory port)
seen many like this, its all good, gap at bore is almost touching but not. all USA TB. (made at CAMI Canada, or Awata Japan)

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on ours, if the large (marked iac/bleed) hole on left , If we block that someway, the engine stalls.
the 400cc air suck can not suck past the fly plate. and stalls. each suck, (engine air pump)
how ever the bleed screw if unscrewed full might run the engine, with ISC blocked.
but that is how I find air leaks, with out smoke machines and spraying engine with dangerous liquid fuels. or the like.
once i cure the leaks, we can set duty cycle and it holds and works forever. (Pascal, permitting....lol)

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keep in mind all this works at any altitude.
even on PIKES Peak here. 14,000 feet....
the ISC must open near 100% there, to even run at all.

or in Spain 11089 feet. Veleta, (highest in Europe) 3380m

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in SouthAmerica there is one road at 5100meters. Abra Arcata is a high mountain pass.
we took a bus to Pastoruri Glacier:
5000m
and we had to use donkeys the last 2 miles. because if we tried to walk we fell down panting........very thin air there.
one of our most crazy trips. here.
http://i2.wp.com/farm7.staticflickr.com/...=640%2C480
my guess is the Santana would stall......?

check this out, feet .. OMG

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bus was 200m lower...only.