11-25-2015, 06:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2015, 08:53 PM by LuisCarlos.)
[quote='fixkick' pid='5002' dateline='1448393122']
02 sensors brand new fail (not bad truly, just lies) for any exhaust leaks, (air will suck in there for cracks near by, and engine goes rich. way rich)
im sure yours is ok with low miles... but not sure about cracks.. (scan tool shows 02 stuck at 0v. dead is top clue...)hot
Air leaks near the 02 are unacceptable totally. air is 20% oxygen, and just the smallest amount landing on O2 tips, slams it to 0v. (making it useless)
I'll check the exhaust if any crack, for the moment I didn't hear any noise about, but I'll see near to O2 sensor, thete is a gasket just ten centimeters..
the mech, said:
" he told me he did the duty cycle in the ECU, not in DLC.."
does that mean? , he has a Tech1 scan tool ?and saw and set the duty turning the bleed? or just looked at it and sees. 90% and thinks that is ok and is not.
He said he did duty cycle with OBD, but I not sure if he saw 90 % and thought is OK.. but tomorrow, when we'll remove TBI I'll tell him to set duty turning the bledd..
Leaks: (isc closed, bleed closed ) what i call test 1.... fails and fails hard, I dont know how to tell you more clearly..
it's not a maybe you have an air leak (vacuum)
it is A a "YOU DO have an air leak."
Yes, for that I'm doing another air test apart from ISC air test and screw bleed closed, as if any EGR or its modulator has any leaks, vacuum hose, PCV hose is new too, I'm checking all possibility to find any leaks..
But the more important will be tomorrow when the mech and I remove TBi and see the plenum plate gasket, I have a new gasket of the TBI base pelnum, it can block all five holes, you can see in the gallery that gasket, because I can't insert any photo here..
test 1:
you unplugged the isc elect. connector, this causes it to close 100% (or pinch it, same effect , if not the ISC is stuck open)
then screwed in the bleed 100% , at this time, there is no air supply now, to any new 8v engine, ZERO Air to run.
Of course, I understood that very well, that's as if we put a plastic bag around our head, and mouth and nose will be closed, so we can't breathe and then we'll die..
But if we have a hole like a tracheotomy, we don't die, because we can breathe by that hole in our throat
IDLE speeds or DUTY cycle a last step in all repairs, major to the engine. last. never first.
I know that now, duty cycle must to be at last, not before..
air leaks to the plenum do NOT cause rich.
that is what is detracting. to many. and is why rich is the problem. to cure first.
if spark misfiring is happening then that is first first. (cant burn fuel with no spark or weak, so goes rich. at each misfire, and each misfire cause the O2 to go nuts)
(misfire = lots of raw fuel and lots of oxygen) fooling all 02 sensors. <tricky huh? the ECU does not measure HC, only 02.
if one cylinder misfires. it will send a slug of air (and lots of oxygen) to the 02, and it will read wrong.
Yes, I know about spark misfiring, if the engine ignition advance is wrong the egine will fail, or too much raw fuel as or oxygen you said, or any spark failling..
I'll tell to the mech to do it too..
Anyway, I'm going to buy a digital meter for heceforth to make measurements on my own, I have to learn how to operate that device, not problem..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331500832195
PVC only keeps the engine from leaking oil like mad. with it clogged, crank case pressures can rise high ,causing oil leaks sometimes..
the engine will run ok with it clogged, but if the hose is cracked the air sucks in and races at idle.
PCV hose is new too..
your ISC is not clogged, it's new.
but pinching the hose, showed, lots of air flowing, from illegal sources
this is a fact and 2x that if the bleed was closed down. CW.
Yes, and the engine have to stall, but that not happen, there is other place wher the air fresh is entering..
test 1: HOT ENGINE.
ISC UNPUGGED, OR AIR HOSE PINCHED, i DO BOTH, SEE THEY ARE SAME.
THEN SCREW IN THE BLEED CW.
ENGINE MUST STALL.
THERE IS NO AIR TO RUN THE ENGINE,
NOW.
ZERO AIR...NOW.. TO BURN FUEL, PLENUM VACUUM CAN HIT 27 OR MORE INCHES HG, JUST AS IT STALLS, (ZERO AIR DOES JUST THAT)
Yes, that was our first test, and the engine didn't stall, I did it three times and the result was the same, engine continue run in a low idle but it continue running..
That 's very clear, of course..
WITH LARGE Plenum air leaks? (that space below the Throttle plate closed 100%) that place the intake valve suck so hard.....
For that, tomorrow we are going to open TBI to be sure that plenum plate has installed the right gasket, I have a new one to be ready to install when we install TBI again..
the ISC gets overwhelmed. with air leaks.
say it's at 50% (with no leaks)
so you add a leak (with a hose pulled (vac) (seen with a duty meter)
the duty % drops. more and more, as you add small leaks of air.
then it hits 0% and the ISC has lost control ! ( cant close any more, ... is why)
and now idle speeds jump above 800 (lost control), and more RPM for each leak added.
same with pinching the ISC hose. (an opposite effect)
the duty goes HIGH way high. (ECU does this but iSC is dead now)
this attempts open the iSC and keep idle a 800 rpm , and will fail.
Yes, everything faillure with air leaks..
but we close the bleed and at some point the ISC cannot hold 800 rpm and idle speeds drop (we only have 1 air supply now , the bleed)
Yes, I understood that system, like if we blocked our mouth (similar to ISC air hose pinched), so that we can breathe still through the nose (similar to bleed screw idle open), then we'll not die..
as the bleed is closed, the idle goes very low, and finally the engine stalls. as all air supplies are gone. (tiny bit from PCV very tiny)
the engine can not run with only PCV air. impossible. (its half air and half exh. fumes , crankcase blow by)
I didn't konw that about PCV a tiny bit air, but anyway the engine must to stall as you said..
So tomorrow we'll know how was the plenum gasket plate below TBI and much more, after we finished that work that the mechac and I will do together..
We'll see spark misfiring if any, TBI plenum gasket and duty cycle at last..
I'll tell you everything about with all kind of details..
I tell you an interesting detail that I didn't know, the mechanic told me that when a difficult case happen and when he was working in Susuki Santana, the workshop sent all details and tests about that malfunction to Santana, then Santana sent to workshop how to repair it, then Santana kept it in the database because was possible that faillure could appear in another car..
I think all Cars Companies have the same system, or not ?..
Cheers!!
02 sensors brand new fail (not bad truly, just lies) for any exhaust leaks, (air will suck in there for cracks near by, and engine goes rich. way rich)
im sure yours is ok with low miles... but not sure about cracks.. (scan tool shows 02 stuck at 0v. dead is top clue...)hot
Air leaks near the 02 are unacceptable totally. air is 20% oxygen, and just the smallest amount landing on O2 tips, slams it to 0v. (making it useless)
I'll check the exhaust if any crack, for the moment I didn't hear any noise about, but I'll see near to O2 sensor, thete is a gasket just ten centimeters..
the mech, said:
" he told me he did the duty cycle in the ECU, not in DLC.."
does that mean? , he has a Tech1 scan tool ?and saw and set the duty turning the bleed? or just looked at it and sees. 90% and thinks that is ok and is not.
He said he did duty cycle with OBD, but I not sure if he saw 90 % and thought is OK.. but tomorrow, when we'll remove TBI I'll tell him to set duty turning the bledd..
Leaks: (isc closed, bleed closed ) what i call test 1.... fails and fails hard, I dont know how to tell you more clearly..
it's not a maybe you have an air leak (vacuum)
it is A a "YOU DO have an air leak."
Yes, for that I'm doing another air test apart from ISC air test and screw bleed closed, as if any EGR or its modulator has any leaks, vacuum hose, PCV hose is new too, I'm checking all possibility to find any leaks..
But the more important will be tomorrow when the mech and I remove TBi and see the plenum plate gasket, I have a new gasket of the TBI base pelnum, it can block all five holes, you can see in the gallery that gasket, because I can't insert any photo here..
test 1:
you unplugged the isc elect. connector, this causes it to close 100% (or pinch it, same effect , if not the ISC is stuck open)
then screwed in the bleed 100% , at this time, there is no air supply now, to any new 8v engine, ZERO Air to run.
Of course, I understood that very well, that's as if we put a plastic bag around our head, and mouth and nose will be closed, so we can't breathe and then we'll die..
But if we have a hole like a tracheotomy, we don't die, because we can breathe by that hole in our throat
IDLE speeds or DUTY cycle a last step in all repairs, major to the engine. last. never first.
I know that now, duty cycle must to be at last, not before..
air leaks to the plenum do NOT cause rich.
that is what is detracting. to many. and is why rich is the problem. to cure first.
if spark misfiring is happening then that is first first. (cant burn fuel with no spark or weak, so goes rich. at each misfire, and each misfire cause the O2 to go nuts)
(misfire = lots of raw fuel and lots of oxygen) fooling all 02 sensors. <tricky huh? the ECU does not measure HC, only 02.
if one cylinder misfires. it will send a slug of air (and lots of oxygen) to the 02, and it will read wrong.
Yes, I know about spark misfiring, if the engine ignition advance is wrong the egine will fail, or too much raw fuel as or oxygen you said, or any spark failling..
I'll tell to the mech to do it too..
Anyway, I'm going to buy a digital meter for heceforth to make measurements on my own, I have to learn how to operate that device, not problem..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331500832195
PVC only keeps the engine from leaking oil like mad. with it clogged, crank case pressures can rise high ,causing oil leaks sometimes..
the engine will run ok with it clogged, but if the hose is cracked the air sucks in and races at idle.
PCV hose is new too..
your ISC is not clogged, it's new.
but pinching the hose, showed, lots of air flowing, from illegal sources
this is a fact and 2x that if the bleed was closed down. CW.
Yes, and the engine have to stall, but that not happen, there is other place wher the air fresh is entering..
test 1: HOT ENGINE.
ISC UNPUGGED, OR AIR HOSE PINCHED, i DO BOTH, SEE THEY ARE SAME.
THEN SCREW IN THE BLEED CW.
ENGINE MUST STALL.
THERE IS NO AIR TO RUN THE ENGINE,
NOW.
ZERO AIR...NOW.. TO BURN FUEL, PLENUM VACUUM CAN HIT 27 OR MORE INCHES HG, JUST AS IT STALLS, (ZERO AIR DOES JUST THAT)
Yes, that was our first test, and the engine didn't stall, I did it three times and the result was the same, engine continue run in a low idle but it continue running..
That 's very clear, of course..
WITH LARGE Plenum air leaks? (that space below the Throttle plate closed 100%) that place the intake valve suck so hard.....
For that, tomorrow we are going to open TBI to be sure that plenum plate has installed the right gasket, I have a new one to be ready to install when we install TBI again..
the ISC gets overwhelmed. with air leaks.
say it's at 50% (with no leaks)
so you add a leak (with a hose pulled (vac) (seen with a duty meter)
the duty % drops. more and more, as you add small leaks of air.
then it hits 0% and the ISC has lost control ! ( cant close any more, ... is why)
and now idle speeds jump above 800 (lost control), and more RPM for each leak added.
same with pinching the ISC hose. (an opposite effect)
the duty goes HIGH way high. (ECU does this but iSC is dead now)
this attempts open the iSC and keep idle a 800 rpm , and will fail.
Yes, everything faillure with air leaks..
but we close the bleed and at some point the ISC cannot hold 800 rpm and idle speeds drop (we only have 1 air supply now , the bleed)
Yes, I understood that system, like if we blocked our mouth (similar to ISC air hose pinched), so that we can breathe still through the nose (similar to bleed screw idle open), then we'll not die..
as the bleed is closed, the idle goes very low, and finally the engine stalls. as all air supplies are gone. (tiny bit from PCV very tiny)
the engine can not run with only PCV air. impossible. (its half air and half exh. fumes , crankcase blow by)
I didn't konw that about PCV a tiny bit air, but anyway the engine must to stall as you said..
So tomorrow we'll know how was the plenum gasket plate below TBI and much more, after we finished that work that the mechac and I will do together..
We'll see spark misfiring if any, TBI plenum gasket and duty cycle at last..
I'll tell you everything about with all kind of details..
I tell you an interesting detail that I didn't know, the mechanic told me that when a difficult case happen and when he was working in Susuki Santana, the workshop sent all details and tests about that malfunction to Santana, then Santana sent to workshop how to repair it, then Santana kept it in the database because was possible that faillure could appear in another car..
I think all Cars Companies have the same system, or not ?..
Cheers!!