11-05-2015, 10:10 PM
[quote='fixkick' pid='4746' dateline='1446471894']
"first off , i glad to help you and your are always welcome here. and no reasons for sorry ever here, its all to easy to have 10 problems with old cars.
some problems even hide others.... (fun no?)"
Yes, you never is going to be boried, of course..
"i only know that above for now... can look up yours. .
IF?
i can look yours up of you photo the body tag next to battery, this has the market codes, and factory codes, etc.."
-IF mean Factory Identification ? I¡m going to see it and take some photos fo that tag..
"1mm bigger STAT
diameter? here , if ours are 1mm larger OD, outside diameter it will not fit into the well pit. per my sections (suz) drawings on page 1 back.."
-I'll send you some photos about old and new termostat, but they don't call me to collect it still, I'll go today to the shop and I'm sure the termostat is in the shop from some days ago, here in Spain so many people aren't formal about that, they said 'I'll call you' but they never do it..
"that is because the ECT reads water temp and this reading stages the EFI from , cranking, to cold run, warm run and hot run modes.
if this is wrong, it will waste fuel and make lots of smog... so the thermosat is first. and not having a seized clutch fan on cold weather.
Ah the car is subject to smog test. that is KEY factor here.... (cat must work and EGR too, i bet)"
As I told you the ECT has one yeras only, but is posible it's a little deteriorate, I'm going to remove and clean when I get the new termostat..
"the word "scrapping " is what confuses, me,."
-This mean where old car are stored to sell parts..
"what i do on a cold engine.
is make sure the dash pot closes, (id does)"
"then rpm can be 1500 rpm , (more if real cold, IAC does that) and is mandated in the usa by the EPA, to lower smog cold,! its the law here. cold engines racing be damned, EPA always wins (MPI solved this... issues, but yours is TBI)
how to get lower that 2000, well , turn the bleed lower (cw)"
Which is this bleed lower (cw) ?.. Is sealed from Facrory ?, if so I prefer don´t move it before checking everything..
I returned the IAC valve as it came from Factory, then agin when start in cold go up almost 2000r.p.m for one second, then come down to 1600 r.p.m to start to warm up..
"pinch all vacuum lines.
try to find all sources of air , cold started.... the IAC (thermal) can in fact be blocked, 3 ways. top blocked, side port blocked or custom base gasket blocked.
i recommend blocking side on new TB or if old TB use the top port."
-You mean to put a hand on top TBI ?
"if you block the port, cold, and start the engine, (will take 5% right foot throttle open action to start car with no IAC)
what is RPM now.? see what i just did, im checking for gross vacuum leaks. "
-That is difficult for me to understand..
"now i answer your great question
" why after the engine is hot and the idle is normalized at 800 r.p.m I can drive without any problem about idle 800 r.p.m, "
"that is easy, the ISC did that (ECU servo logic ) did that. if the ECU sees a huge leak, of air hot, (RPM) it then closes the ISC
this normal action, lowers rpm to 800 rpm and HIDEs said leak.
this is it's purpose. until said leak progresses to too much illegal air and the ECU can not longer hit 800 rpm (duty maxed out)"
-I understand abiut "HIDES laks"..
"the ISC is not used, much on a cold engine, until 150f temps are reached,
thent he ISC wakes up.
imagine the ISC trying hard to fight a stuck open IAC, (impossible that is)
the engine must cross 150f"
-Yes, has to be like this..
"back to cold rpm , after all that is the post. why is my cold rpm too high.
answer,
its normal (my guess is 2000 is ok in alaska, not been there, but that wax pellet does shrink at -40f, I measured it and it does. so.... it will race faster and colder temps. BY DESIGN.
you never once told me out door temps, at 2000rpm ? (some folks live at high altitudes and gets cold there)
-Yes, I think was in the begining of thie foro, if not that is what it does, and sound terrible, knowing the cylinder are still dry of oil.. Or it seems to me..
-Here the temp in winter time is -2º Celcius and only at dawn and rarely but never in the city..
-One of the foreman problem was to avoid to get 2000 r.p.m, but he said me before I left the workshop, it have to be like this when cranking in cold..
"oxygen sensor not above the exhaust manifold but under it..?"
-I see it in all manuals, I¡ll send you a photo of my vitara model.. You put also a metal sheet to protect the clutch wire from the heat of exhaust manifold, I did it too..
"Recap TB swaps"
"old TB had a bad, IAC and bad ISC, so we forget that.
-Ok..
"the mech , should check the TPS GAP. and if wrong set it to spec.
and set throttle cable slack
-Right, maybe he does..
"check spark timing, at 800 hot. (using the freeze jumper clip, at DLC next to battery)
check engine is fully hot, when hot. (gauge it) or scan the ECT sensor for 180F hot. or more. if stat is more..."
-I haven't any device to scan the sensor, I¡ll need an ohmmeter, and you know? this sensor ECT have only one year but my intuition suspect of it from long term, but because is new I forgot it...
"check for vacuum leaks, what i do is block the ISC air hose, (pinch it) and HOT idle will drop to 400 rpm or stall. if idle is high here, YOU HAVE VACUUM leaks big time."
-You see my photo gallery when I did that, so when I pinched that ISC air hose and idle was in hot 1000 r.p.m after start in hot, it come down to 800 r.p.m..
And when I left free agian that air hose it come again to 1000 r.p.m..
But when idle is normalizaad at 800 r.p.m and I pinch that air hose nothing happen, the idle 800 r.p.m continue being 800 r.p.m..
"cold idle does not work at all like hot idle, (think like car has 2 injection systems, or 3, for cranking) the modes are UNIQUE.
the 2000 rpm what if your dash gauge lied.? some do."
-After remove old termostat and flexs its spring and strange "clac, clac" was over, and I replace it agian waiting new termostat to come, the dash gauge is working as always it done during thouse nineteen years, this mean it go up very slowly to get in hot position, it need about 400 meter to make it, because in the last months the dash gauge goes up very fast to the "hot position", it needed only 60 meter to make it..
So that would be that termostat opened very late to pass water to radiator, but this is only my opinion..
And for that, I've been thinking all the time that some sensor was given a false data to ECU, but which ?.. I think also than when start in hot now the idle is not 1000 r.p.m, but 900 r.p.m.. But I have to test this again, because the last time when I was driving was two days ago. I'll see this point again today..
"i use an optical hand head tachometer, that is deadly accurate. the dash gauge is more a toy than and instrument. as is the dash water temp gauge, (no numbers)"
-Yes, any number..
"good luck to you, and do tell me more.... fixing the hard cases are fun. "
-Yes, like Sherlock Holmes's cases, more hard, much better..
we should work only the 2000 rpm issues, and forget all else. , then when solved work to next issue, IMO.....
-Perhaps there is not problem when starting in could go up to almost 2000 r.p.m and in one second come to 1600 r.p.m to continue warms up, all because during all last nineteen years it never did that.. Maximum just 1500 r.p.m then warms up until 800 r.p.m..
But because new Tbi has other system does that..
-The new TBi is the same model than old model, but has a small different detail.. The hex from ISC valve is not 5 mm, but 4,5 mm, I know that because when I was thinking to move it, then I saw this detail, in fact, I recess the allen 5 mm to 4,5 with grinding machine to be ready to do it, but I never did that, you can see it in gallery sealed still whit silicone from Factory..
I'm going to photo gallery now [/color]to put some photos about the spark plugs state NGK after 3000 kms, we can see only one spark plug, but both side, one of them is more dun color than other side.. What do you think about ?
Gettings from Spain!!
"first off , i glad to help you and your are always welcome here. and no reasons for sorry ever here, its all to easy to have 10 problems with old cars.
some problems even hide others.... (fun no?)"
Yes, you never is going to be boried, of course..
"i only know that above for now... can look up yours. .
IF?
i can look yours up of you photo the body tag next to battery, this has the market codes, and factory codes, etc.."
-IF mean Factory Identification ? I¡m going to see it and take some photos fo that tag..
"1mm bigger STAT
diameter? here , if ours are 1mm larger OD, outside diameter it will not fit into the well pit. per my sections (suz) drawings on page 1 back.."
-I'll send you some photos about old and new termostat, but they don't call me to collect it still, I'll go today to the shop and I'm sure the termostat is in the shop from some days ago, here in Spain so many people aren't formal about that, they said 'I'll call you' but they never do it..
"that is because the ECT reads water temp and this reading stages the EFI from , cranking, to cold run, warm run and hot run modes.
if this is wrong, it will waste fuel and make lots of smog... so the thermosat is first. and not having a seized clutch fan on cold weather.
Ah the car is subject to smog test. that is KEY factor here.... (cat must work and EGR too, i bet)"
As I told you the ECT has one yeras only, but is posible it's a little deteriorate, I'm going to remove and clean when I get the new termostat..
"the word "scrapping " is what confuses, me,."
-This mean where old car are stored to sell parts..
"what i do on a cold engine.
is make sure the dash pot closes, (id does)"
"then rpm can be 1500 rpm , (more if real cold, IAC does that) and is mandated in the usa by the EPA, to lower smog cold,! its the law here. cold engines racing be damned, EPA always wins (MPI solved this... issues, but yours is TBI)
how to get lower that 2000, well , turn the bleed lower (cw)"
Which is this bleed lower (cw) ?.. Is sealed from Facrory ?, if so I prefer don´t move it before checking everything..
I returned the IAC valve as it came from Factory, then agin when start in cold go up almost 2000r.p.m for one second, then come down to 1600 r.p.m to start to warm up..
"pinch all vacuum lines.
try to find all sources of air , cold started.... the IAC (thermal) can in fact be blocked, 3 ways. top blocked, side port blocked or custom base gasket blocked.
i recommend blocking side on new TB or if old TB use the top port."
-You mean to put a hand on top TBI ?
"if you block the port, cold, and start the engine, (will take 5% right foot throttle open action to start car with no IAC)
what is RPM now.? see what i just did, im checking for gross vacuum leaks. "
-That is difficult for me to understand..
"now i answer your great question
" why after the engine is hot and the idle is normalized at 800 r.p.m I can drive without any problem about idle 800 r.p.m, "
"that is easy, the ISC did that (ECU servo logic ) did that. if the ECU sees a huge leak, of air hot, (RPM) it then closes the ISC
this normal action, lowers rpm to 800 rpm and HIDEs said leak.
this is it's purpose. until said leak progresses to too much illegal air and the ECU can not longer hit 800 rpm (duty maxed out)"
-I understand abiut "HIDES laks"..
"the ISC is not used, much on a cold engine, until 150f temps are reached,
thent he ISC wakes up.
imagine the ISC trying hard to fight a stuck open IAC, (impossible that is)
the engine must cross 150f"
-Yes, has to be like this..
"back to cold rpm , after all that is the post. why is my cold rpm too high.
answer,
its normal (my guess is 2000 is ok in alaska, not been there, but that wax pellet does shrink at -40f, I measured it and it does. so.... it will race faster and colder temps. BY DESIGN.
you never once told me out door temps, at 2000rpm ? (some folks live at high altitudes and gets cold there)
-Yes, I think was in the begining of thie foro, if not that is what it does, and sound terrible, knowing the cylinder are still dry of oil.. Or it seems to me..
-Here the temp in winter time is -2º Celcius and only at dawn and rarely but never in the city..
-One of the foreman problem was to avoid to get 2000 r.p.m, but he said me before I left the workshop, it have to be like this when cranking in cold..
"oxygen sensor not above the exhaust manifold but under it..?"
-I see it in all manuals, I¡ll send you a photo of my vitara model.. You put also a metal sheet to protect the clutch wire from the heat of exhaust manifold, I did it too..
"Recap TB swaps"
"old TB had a bad, IAC and bad ISC, so we forget that.
-Ok..
"the mech , should check the TPS GAP. and if wrong set it to spec.
and set throttle cable slack
-Right, maybe he does..
"check spark timing, at 800 hot. (using the freeze jumper clip, at DLC next to battery)
check engine is fully hot, when hot. (gauge it) or scan the ECT sensor for 180F hot. or more. if stat is more..."
-I haven't any device to scan the sensor, I¡ll need an ohmmeter, and you know? this sensor ECT have only one year but my intuition suspect of it from long term, but because is new I forgot it...
"check for vacuum leaks, what i do is block the ISC air hose, (pinch it) and HOT idle will drop to 400 rpm or stall. if idle is high here, YOU HAVE VACUUM leaks big time."
-You see my photo gallery when I did that, so when I pinched that ISC air hose and idle was in hot 1000 r.p.m after start in hot, it come down to 800 r.p.m..
And when I left free agian that air hose it come again to 1000 r.p.m..
But when idle is normalizaad at 800 r.p.m and I pinch that air hose nothing happen, the idle 800 r.p.m continue being 800 r.p.m..
"cold idle does not work at all like hot idle, (think like car has 2 injection systems, or 3, for cranking) the modes are UNIQUE.
the 2000 rpm what if your dash gauge lied.? some do."
-After remove old termostat and flexs its spring and strange "clac, clac" was over, and I replace it agian waiting new termostat to come, the dash gauge is working as always it done during thouse nineteen years, this mean it go up very slowly to get in hot position, it need about 400 meter to make it, because in the last months the dash gauge goes up very fast to the "hot position", it needed only 60 meter to make it..
So that would be that termostat opened very late to pass water to radiator, but this is only my opinion..
And for that, I've been thinking all the time that some sensor was given a false data to ECU, but which ?.. I think also than when start in hot now the idle is not 1000 r.p.m, but 900 r.p.m.. But I have to test this again, because the last time when I was driving was two days ago. I'll see this point again today..
"i use an optical hand head tachometer, that is deadly accurate. the dash gauge is more a toy than and instrument. as is the dash water temp gauge, (no numbers)"
-Yes, any number..
"good luck to you, and do tell me more.... fixing the hard cases are fun. "
-Yes, like Sherlock Holmes's cases, more hard, much better..
we should work only the 2000 rpm issues, and forget all else. , then when solved work to next issue, IMO.....
-Perhaps there is not problem when starting in could go up to almost 2000 r.p.m and in one second come to 1600 r.p.m to continue warms up, all because during all last nineteen years it never did that.. Maximum just 1500 r.p.m then warms up until 800 r.p.m..
But because new Tbi has other system does that..
-The new TBi is the same model than old model, but has a small different detail.. The hex from ISC valve is not 5 mm, but 4,5 mm, I know that because when I was thinking to move it, then I saw this detail, in fact, I recess the allen 5 mm to 4,5 with grinding machine to be ready to do it, but I never did that, you can see it in gallery sealed still whit silicone from Factory..
I'm going to photo gallery now [/color]to put some photos about the spark plugs state NGK after 3000 kms, we can see only one spark plug, but both side, one of them is more dun color than other side.. What do you think about ?
Gettings from Spain!!