11-02-2015, 11:44 PM
first off , i glad to help you and your are always welcome here. and no reasons for sorry ever here, its all to easy to have 10 problems with old cars.
some problems even hide others.... (fun no?)
sorry you confused me by posting 16v responses. the 16v has no dash pot. so... is very different EFI too. TBI is yours, 16v is MPI 4 injectors with MAF.
that is correct. the santana engines, in europe run a unique thermostat. but keep that well size in mind, 4mm well lips all need rubber surrounds
my themostat page, hints a this santana BLUES? (old parts) seems they use 1980s parts... for some reasons...
http://www.fixkick.com/buy-parts.html#vit-stat
i only know that above for now... can look up yours. .
IF?
i can look yours up of you photo the body tag next to battery, this has the market codes, and factory codes, etc...
keep in mind that in Europe they have suzuki type engines, type 1,2,3, and more, and then Santana engines.... complex,
we have 2 here, 8v and 16v. super easy to get most parts. if you buy by valve counts (vin is no help here)
1mm bigger STAT
diameter? here , if ours are 1mm larger OD, outside diameter it will not fit into the well pit. per my sections (suz) drawings on page 1 back..
ok sounds like your OBD mechanic has a tech1 scan tool, if yes,, that is best to have working on all old SUZUKI
it has streaming data on sensors, (kinda, you can scan any sensor) and watch it.... so is best.
on old 90s cars, its best to get a good themostat first. the ECU (EFI) will not work right if the thermosat i bad.
that is because the ECT reads water temp and this reading stages the EFI from , cranking, to cold run, warm run and hot run modes.
if this is wrong, it will waste fuel and make lots of smog... so the thermosat is first. and not having a seized clutch fan on cold weather.
Ah the car is subject to smog test. that is KEY factor here.... (cat must work and EGR too, i bet)
the word "scrapping " is what confuses, me,.
my guess, is the old TB , had a dead, IAC and bad ISC( the latter is common fail, an is sold cheaper, 1/4th of a new TB)
there are lots of reasons for too high idle speed, cold and not. lots
the first (besides vacuum leaks of ANY kind on any 8v TBI system)
is:
spark timing, if someone set the timing way advanced the RPM will rise. (you can test this your self with the strobe lamp)
but is tricky to do... the spark timing, using the freeze jumper, requires 800 rpm hot to make that work (chicken and egg syndrome)
the best way to do spark is commandeer (overide it) the idle bleed screw and force 800rpm hot, and set the timing to spec.
now work idle speed issues.
what i do on a cold engine.
is make sure the dash pot closes, (id does)
then rpm can be 1500 rpm , (more if real cold, IAC does that) and is mandated in the usa by the EPA, to lower smog cold,! its the law here. cold engines racing be damned, EPA always wins (MPI solved this... issues, but yours is TBI)
how to get lower that 2000, well , turn the bleed lower (cw)
pinch the ISC air hose (not water) and see if its open. (ecu caused)
pinch all vacuum lines.
try to find all sources of air , cold started.... the IAC (thermal) can in fact be blocked, 3 ways. top blocked, side port blocked or custom base gasket blocked.
i recommend blocking side on new TB or if old TB use the top port.
if you block the port, cold, and start the engine, (will take 5% right foot throttle open action to start car with no IAC)
what is RPM now.? see what i just did, im checking for gross vacuum leaks.
now i answer your great question
" why after the engine is hot and the idle is normalized at 800 r.p.m I can drive without any problem about idle 800 r.p.m, "
that is easy, the ISC did that (ECU servo logic ) did that. if the ECU sees a huge leak, of air hot, (RPM) it then closes the ISC
this normal action, lowers rpm to 800 rpm and HIDEs said leak.
this is it's purpose. until said leak progresses to too much illegal air and the ECU can not longer hit 800 rpm (duty maxed out)
you need to troubleshoot cold, mode,
then set hot duty cycle. (hot mode) and test the regulation (it works you proved that) but DUTY might be set wrong.
the ISC is not used, much on a cold engine, until 150f temps are reached,
thent he ISC wakes up.
imagine the ISC trying hard to fight a stuck open IAC, (impossible that is)
the engine must cross 150f
back to cold rpm , after all that is the post. why is my cold rpm too high.
answer,
its normal (my guess is 2000 is ok in alaska, not been there, but that wax pellet does shrink at -40f, I measured it and it does. so.... it will race faster and colder temps. BY DESIGN.
you never once told me out door temps, at 2000rpm ? (some folks live at high altitudes and gets cold there)
"oxygen sensor not above the exhaust manifold but under it..?"
the 8v single o2 is dead center top of exh.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/exhaust16L-1w.jpg
-------------------------------------recap TB swaps-------------------------------------------------------
old TB had a bad, IAC and bad ISC, so we forget that. Scrapping?word ,dont know it here.???
the mech , should check the TPS GAP. and if wrong set it to spec.
and set throttle cable slack
and then set duty cycle. just 3 steps, not one skipped.
the duty cycle varies by engine, (engine vacuum power (weaker on older engines) the duty cycle set correctly allow the ISC to work right under all loads. HOT.
check spark timing, at 800 hot. (using the freeze jumper clip, at DLC next to battery)
check engine is fully hot, when hot. (gauge it) or scan the ECT sensor for 180F hot. or more. if stat is more...
check for vacuum leaks, what i do is block the ISC air hose, (pinch it) and HOT idle will drop to 400 rpm or stall. if idle is high here, YOU HAVE VACUUM leaks big time.
cold idle does not work at all like hot idle, (think like car has 2 injection systems, or 3, for cranking) the modes are UNIQUE.
the 2000 rpm what if your dash gauge lied.? some do.
i use an optical hand head tachometer, that is deadly accurate. the dash gauge is more a toy than and instrument. as is the dash water temp gauge, (no numbers)
good luck to you, and do tell me more.... fixing the hard cases are fun.
we should work only the 2000 rpm issues, and forget all else. , then when solved work to next issue, IMO.....
cheers !
some problems even hide others.... (fun no?)
sorry you confused me by posting 16v responses. the 16v has no dash pot. so... is very different EFI too. TBI is yours, 16v is MPI 4 injectors with MAF.
that is correct. the santana engines, in europe run a unique thermostat. but keep that well size in mind, 4mm well lips all need rubber surrounds
my themostat page, hints a this santana BLUES? (old parts) seems they use 1980s parts... for some reasons...
http://www.fixkick.com/buy-parts.html#vit-stat
i only know that above for now... can look up yours. .
IF?
i can look yours up of you photo the body tag next to battery, this has the market codes, and factory codes, etc...
keep in mind that in Europe they have suzuki type engines, type 1,2,3, and more, and then Santana engines.... complex,
we have 2 here, 8v and 16v. super easy to get most parts. if you buy by valve counts (vin is no help here)
1mm bigger STAT
diameter? here , if ours are 1mm larger OD, outside diameter it will not fit into the well pit. per my sections (suz) drawings on page 1 back..
ok sounds like your OBD mechanic has a tech1 scan tool, if yes,, that is best to have working on all old SUZUKI
it has streaming data on sensors, (kinda, you can scan any sensor) and watch it.... so is best.
on old 90s cars, its best to get a good themostat first. the ECU (EFI) will not work right if the thermosat i bad.
that is because the ECT reads water temp and this reading stages the EFI from , cranking, to cold run, warm run and hot run modes.
if this is wrong, it will waste fuel and make lots of smog... so the thermosat is first. and not having a seized clutch fan on cold weather.
Ah the car is subject to smog test. that is KEY factor here.... (cat must work and EGR too, i bet)
the word "scrapping " is what confuses, me,.
my guess, is the old TB , had a dead, IAC and bad ISC( the latter is common fail, an is sold cheaper, 1/4th of a new TB)
there are lots of reasons for too high idle speed, cold and not. lots
the first (besides vacuum leaks of ANY kind on any 8v TBI system)
is:
spark timing, if someone set the timing way advanced the RPM will rise. (you can test this your self with the strobe lamp)
but is tricky to do... the spark timing, using the freeze jumper, requires 800 rpm hot to make that work (chicken and egg syndrome)
the best way to do spark is commandeer (overide it) the idle bleed screw and force 800rpm hot, and set the timing to spec.
now work idle speed issues.
what i do on a cold engine.
is make sure the dash pot closes, (id does)
then rpm can be 1500 rpm , (more if real cold, IAC does that) and is mandated in the usa by the EPA, to lower smog cold,! its the law here. cold engines racing be damned, EPA always wins (MPI solved this... issues, but yours is TBI)
how to get lower that 2000, well , turn the bleed lower (cw)
pinch the ISC air hose (not water) and see if its open. (ecu caused)
pinch all vacuum lines.
try to find all sources of air , cold started.... the IAC (thermal) can in fact be blocked, 3 ways. top blocked, side port blocked or custom base gasket blocked.
i recommend blocking side on new TB or if old TB use the top port.
if you block the port, cold, and start the engine, (will take 5% right foot throttle open action to start car with no IAC)
what is RPM now.? see what i just did, im checking for gross vacuum leaks.
now i answer your great question
" why after the engine is hot and the idle is normalized at 800 r.p.m I can drive without any problem about idle 800 r.p.m, "
that is easy, the ISC did that (ECU servo logic ) did that. if the ECU sees a huge leak, of air hot, (RPM) it then closes the ISC
this normal action, lowers rpm to 800 rpm and HIDEs said leak.
this is it's purpose. until said leak progresses to too much illegal air and the ECU can not longer hit 800 rpm (duty maxed out)
you need to troubleshoot cold, mode,
then set hot duty cycle. (hot mode) and test the regulation (it works you proved that) but DUTY might be set wrong.
the ISC is not used, much on a cold engine, until 150f temps are reached,
thent he ISC wakes up.
imagine the ISC trying hard to fight a stuck open IAC, (impossible that is)
the engine must cross 150f
back to cold rpm , after all that is the post. why is my cold rpm too high.
answer,
its normal (my guess is 2000 is ok in alaska, not been there, but that wax pellet does shrink at -40f, I measured it and it does. so.... it will race faster and colder temps. BY DESIGN.
you never once told me out door temps, at 2000rpm ? (some folks live at high altitudes and gets cold there)
"oxygen sensor not above the exhaust manifold but under it..?"
the 8v single o2 is dead center top of exh.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/exhaust16L-1w.jpg
-------------------------------------recap TB swaps-------------------------------------------------------
old TB had a bad, IAC and bad ISC, so we forget that. Scrapping?word ,dont know it here.???
the mech , should check the TPS GAP. and if wrong set it to spec.
and set throttle cable slack
and then set duty cycle. just 3 steps, not one skipped.
the duty cycle varies by engine, (engine vacuum power (weaker on older engines) the duty cycle set correctly allow the ISC to work right under all loads. HOT.
check spark timing, at 800 hot. (using the freeze jumper clip, at DLC next to battery)
check engine is fully hot, when hot. (gauge it) or scan the ECT sensor for 180F hot. or more. if stat is more...
check for vacuum leaks, what i do is block the ISC air hose, (pinch it) and HOT idle will drop to 400 rpm or stall. if idle is high here, YOU HAVE VACUUM leaks big time.
cold idle does not work at all like hot idle, (think like car has 2 injection systems, or 3, for cranking) the modes are UNIQUE.
the 2000 rpm what if your dash gauge lied.? some do.
i use an optical hand head tachometer, that is deadly accurate. the dash gauge is more a toy than and instrument. as is the dash water temp gauge, (no numbers)
good luck to you, and do tell me more.... fixing the hard cases are fun.
we should work only the 2000 rpm issues, and forget all else. , then when solved work to next issue, IMO.....
cheers !
http://www.fixkick.com