[quote='fixkick' pid='4729' dateline='1446206104']
Hello Luis C.
you posted to others 16v engine. with this.
[quote]Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you was write me because you iare speaking about 1'6l and 16 v, and my vitara is 8v, I though was a misunderstanding and not for me but to other person.. But not problem Iill tell you all about this matter.. For the moment as you know the TBi is completely new, and I don't like to move any screw or piece sealed from the Factory, because the TBI it's still under warranty.. The engine start without foot helps I never did that during all this years and start very fast it the engine need half-turn only to start, so I suppose has not rpoblem about fuel pump or something about fuel system..
I have a new thermostat but I'm waiting to test some parts before replace it, but I think that something is wrong about coolant system.. Any way, and because you are trying to help me, I'll send you all about I see in this matter..
You tell me about oil pump and other data, thanks for that, of course, I'll see all abut.. You know, when I went to buy a new thermostat, they told me that the thermostat from 1,6 valves is more little than 8 valves, and because it's MPI, and yourr engine has injectors and my engine has only one, some pieces and data could be different, but I think the most have to be the same.. (that is correct, do not mix G16a with G16b parts, yours is G16a 8v)
Well, friend, we in touch, of course, and I'm sorry about this misunderstanding, now I'm going to do about 25 kilomenters and I'm going to make another test again.. I¡ll send other message to you and to fixkick also to know what is going on..[/quote]
my guess is posted, to your page, to wrong person... can happen easy with 2 pages open... blush.
[/color]Yes, I agrre, I posted wrong my mail notification confused me.. Sorry I know how write in color letters but not very well, I'll try to do it much better in the next..
Yes, my thermostat is made in Spain. But when last saturday I open the cap thermostat I saw that thermostat they gave me was wrong, it was a little big, one milimeter more bigger than the old. I measured it with the caliber.. So, I'll given them the chassis number to bring the right one, so I put again the old one and I have to wait, maybe it will come in this week from Santana..
[color=#FF0000] I tested grand ma thermostat.. Al least it open after you warm up the engine after about two minutes or like this, I put my hand next to dash gauge place, and other hand above the cap thermostat where is the big pipe to radiator.. I accelerate a little to get warm up, and I have to remove my down hand because heat, then I felt the heat when the thermostat started to opened..
When I remove the old thermostat and I prssed the spring I tested it as it was a little blocked because I felt some point resistance accompained with a sound as "clac, clac", but after I press the spring repeatedly the sound was over and the spring was hard but flexing best..
And when I start the engine again the gauge temp go up as it was working during all nineteen years e.i. slowly rising, because in the last time it was up very fast, it needed only 50 meters to go up, although the engine was could and was still in 1400 r.p.m..
But about 1000 r.p.m when start in hot continue, anyway, I¡ll wait new thermostat come..
This termostat use rubber O- ring 4.0 mm without gasket as I can see in your warning page figure A as late.. And it has also a bleed valve very small that we must to put in the right way i.e. looking to the radiator as I saw this detail in Rhino Manual.. This is the link, I think you have it too, but just in case..
http://www.rhinoman.org/manuals/vitara/99500_60A10.pdf
"my guess:"
"id like to reCAP this whole post (best i can tell, please correct me)
you 8v ran for years, and then the TV valve was found damaged (scraping? you said but not in details, )
Well, no problem, I¡ll tell you much better all about this "rare case" but starting from the beginning, telling also a problem that finished but 30% only, and I never told you because was old problem,..
Last years about summer, when the engine began to expend a lot of gasoline smelling vary bad and the idle ISC or IAC was died too because when cranking in could the gauge was 900 r.p.m only, nothing about 1600 r.p.m as normal, would directly to 900 r.p.m.. And in hot was very difficult to start, so that when start again in hot the engine turn off again, but at the end when it start again, then I have to accelerate all the time to avoid off again until idle was normalized,
Then, I took the vitara to some car workshop, but none of them had OBD, because Zusuki Central workshop was closed some yeras before because manager money corruption..
Only in one of these workshop and because there was working there an old staff from Zusuki Central I left the car there... So he put a new ECT only because he can't do more because they don¡t had OBD.. From that the engine start in hot much better, but not in could, and of course the car don't pass ITV (Technical Inspection of Vehicles)..
But because the foreman fron Suzuki lost his job he opened his own cars workshop, and he's the only that have OBD, for that I took the car there..
So the old Suzuki foreman got after long time an old TBI from scrapping because there are not almost any vitara in scrapping here, and if any it's only in chassis, I knew that too..
But the old TBI from scarpping was also ISC or IAC problem, he wanted to get other one from scarpping too, but I said him was better to buy a new one.. So a new one TBI came from Suzuki Santana Motor, but it was the same problem that we have now i.e. when the engine start in hot.. So because he knows the spare chief in Santana Motor long time ago, he could bring a new one, but the problem was still.. But I think the problrm is other issue..
Yes, the TBI cost about as you said $1500, but he said to spare chief in Santana that nobody is going to buy more a new TBI of this model, because there are not many vitara like this model here, and this is truth, there are so many Grand Vitara here but not this old vitara model, so and because theey are friends also, he got buy the new TBI for about $750, this mean 680 euros..
Summarizing:
1- TBI from scrapping was wrong in TBI or ISC.. I have it in a box..
2- New TBI worked very well on road and in the city as the vitara was new, but not in a correct way about TBI or IAC and it was returned..
3- Second new TBI working very well too but about ISC or IAC has still the same problem..
4-The foreman has been two weeks checking the engine, he said the OBD don't found any code errors, then, he couldn't find the problem..
5-I don't think the problem is in TBi..
6-When the new thermostat be here and installed we'll more about..
"first off , the new TB was installed by the mech, im sure they did it wrong, and not by the book, most do here... ignorance.... and no books.
1: set the idle switch to spec, using 3 feeler gauges. for 0.016" gap for TPS idle switch falling below 500 ohms (threshold set, carefully) see my chart?"
Yes, maybe they don't use by the books as you said, if the problem continue after I replace allhoses vaccuum also and some checking more, I'll take the vitara to a special workshop about carburator and TBI only, they began to work since 1960, because if as you said the problem is about they installed not by books and I don't have this kind of devices.. I hope they accept vitara to fix it..
"now when you start the car, it will race, as all 8v G16a do world wide, by design... (DP and IAC actions, )
the Dash pot retracts in 3 to 30 seconds, you can not change this timing, ever. it's fixed in the ECU but the DP has rpm screw, that can be lowered.
DP idle test, hot is 2500rpm, (per the book)"
Of course, I never going to change DP it retract at 3 second in could and in hot, it is as came from Factory..
"next is the IAC, (DP is retracted now) the IAC dictates rpm now. it's very much open or fully. or more if colder. (wax pellet physics here)
you can not change this. the IAC is factory calibrated in the base of the TB, if you do try to hack it. bad things happen! (never try to fool any ECU)
next ....
now the IAC is closed 100% and water is above 179F. temp. now....."
Today, I'm going to put IAC as it came from Facroty, of course, although when starting in hot r.p.m up to 2000 r.p.m..I'll se what happen after that..
"even under all loads, on, 800 rpm (fan blower, head lights, defrost grid in rear heating...) 800 rpm, with below exceptions..
a/c is 1000 (or idle up wire shorted to 12v)
p/s overloaded is 1000. (or its wire shorted to ground)2
I check this wire and it is OK in right conditions and not shorted to the ground.. A/C working also at 1000 r.p.m.. And when I lift my foot of the brake, the idle goes to 950 r.p.m about and come down to 800 r.p.m again..
"the engine, any excessive vacuum leaks will cause the ISC to lose control easy"
Yes, I suspect about that too, but my doubt is, 'if there was a leaks, why after the engine is hot and the idle is noemalized at 800 r.p.m I can drive without any problem about idle 800 r.p.m, like road signal stop, or traffic light in the city or traffic jam' ?.. Anyway,as I said you I¡m going to change all hose vacuum, just in case..
Well friend, I can send you some vÃdeo that I have, and to see you much better how the idle is running both hot and cold, but if you know how to do I'll try to send you them, they only need one minute to see..
About photo I can send you what you like, you can see the vitara model.. By the way, this model has the oxygen sensor not above the exhaust manifold but under it..
Thanks a lot again, and I hope this Sherlock Holmes's case will be over very soon
Hello Luis C.
you posted to others 16v engine. with this.
[quote]Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you was write me because you iare speaking about 1'6l and 16 v, and my vitara is 8v, I though was a misunderstanding and not for me but to other person.. But not problem Iill tell you all about this matter.. For the moment as you know the TBi is completely new, and I don't like to move any screw or piece sealed from the Factory, because the TBI it's still under warranty.. The engine start without foot helps I never did that during all this years and start very fast it the engine need half-turn only to start, so I suppose has not rpoblem about fuel pump or something about fuel system..
I have a new thermostat but I'm waiting to test some parts before replace it, but I think that something is wrong about coolant system.. Any way, and because you are trying to help me, I'll send you all about I see in this matter..
You tell me about oil pump and other data, thanks for that, of course, I'll see all abut.. You know, when I went to buy a new thermostat, they told me that the thermostat from 1,6 valves is more little than 8 valves, and because it's MPI, and yourr engine has injectors and my engine has only one, some pieces and data could be different, but I think the most have to be the same.. (that is correct, do not mix G16a with G16b parts, yours is G16a 8v)
Well, friend, we in touch, of course, and I'm sorry about this misunderstanding, now I'm going to do about 25 kilomenters and I'm going to make another test again.. I¡ll send other message to you and to fixkick also to know what is going on..[/quote]
my guess is posted, to your page, to wrong person... can happen easy with 2 pages open... blush.
[/color]Yes, I agrre, I posted wrong my mail notification confused me.. Sorry I know how write in color letters but not very well, I'll try to do it much better in the next..
Yes, my thermostat is made in Spain. But when last saturday I open the cap thermostat I saw that thermostat they gave me was wrong, it was a little big, one milimeter more bigger than the old. I measured it with the caliber.. So, I'll given them the chassis number to bring the right one, so I put again the old one and I have to wait, maybe it will come in this week from Santana..
[color=#FF0000] I tested grand ma thermostat.. Al least it open after you warm up the engine after about two minutes or like this, I put my hand next to dash gauge place, and other hand above the cap thermostat where is the big pipe to radiator.. I accelerate a little to get warm up, and I have to remove my down hand because heat, then I felt the heat when the thermostat started to opened..
When I remove the old thermostat and I prssed the spring I tested it as it was a little blocked because I felt some point resistance accompained with a sound as "clac, clac", but after I press the spring repeatedly the sound was over and the spring was hard but flexing best..
And when I start the engine again the gauge temp go up as it was working during all nineteen years e.i. slowly rising, because in the last time it was up very fast, it needed only 50 meters to go up, although the engine was could and was still in 1400 r.p.m..
But about 1000 r.p.m when start in hot continue, anyway, I¡ll wait new thermostat come..
This termostat use rubber O- ring 4.0 mm without gasket as I can see in your warning page figure A as late.. And it has also a bleed valve very small that we must to put in the right way i.e. looking to the radiator as I saw this detail in Rhino Manual.. This is the link, I think you have it too, but just in case..
http://www.rhinoman.org/manuals/vitara/99500_60A10.pdf
"my guess:"
"id like to reCAP this whole post (best i can tell, please correct me)
you 8v ran for years, and then the TV valve was found damaged (scraping? you said but not in details, )
Well, no problem, I¡ll tell you much better all about this "rare case" but starting from the beginning, telling also a problem that finished but 30% only, and I never told you because was old problem,..
Last years about summer, when the engine began to expend a lot of gasoline smelling vary bad and the idle ISC or IAC was died too because when cranking in could the gauge was 900 r.p.m only, nothing about 1600 r.p.m as normal, would directly to 900 r.p.m.. And in hot was very difficult to start, so that when start again in hot the engine turn off again, but at the end when it start again, then I have to accelerate all the time to avoid off again until idle was normalized,
Then, I took the vitara to some car workshop, but none of them had OBD, because Zusuki Central workshop was closed some yeras before because manager money corruption..
Only in one of these workshop and because there was working there an old staff from Zusuki Central I left the car there... So he put a new ECT only because he can't do more because they don¡t had OBD.. From that the engine start in hot much better, but not in could, and of course the car don't pass ITV (Technical Inspection of Vehicles)..
But because the foreman fron Suzuki lost his job he opened his own cars workshop, and he's the only that have OBD, for that I took the car there..
So the old Suzuki foreman got after long time an old TBI from scrapping because there are not almost any vitara in scrapping here, and if any it's only in chassis, I knew that too..
But the old TBI from scarpping was also ISC or IAC problem, he wanted to get other one from scarpping too, but I said him was better to buy a new one.. So a new one TBI came from Suzuki Santana Motor, but it was the same problem that we have now i.e. when the engine start in hot.. So because he knows the spare chief in Santana Motor long time ago, he could bring a new one, but the problem was still.. But I think the problrm is other issue..
Yes, the TBI cost about as you said $1500, but he said to spare chief in Santana that nobody is going to buy more a new TBI of this model, because there are not many vitara like this model here, and this is truth, there are so many Grand Vitara here but not this old vitara model, so and because theey are friends also, he got buy the new TBI for about $750, this mean 680 euros..
Summarizing:
1- TBI from scrapping was wrong in TBI or ISC.. I have it in a box..
2- New TBI worked very well on road and in the city as the vitara was new, but not in a correct way about TBI or IAC and it was returned..
3- Second new TBI working very well too but about ISC or IAC has still the same problem..
4-The foreman has been two weeks checking the engine, he said the OBD don't found any code errors, then, he couldn't find the problem..
5-I don't think the problem is in TBi..
6-When the new thermostat be here and installed we'll more about..
"first off , the new TB was installed by the mech, im sure they did it wrong, and not by the book, most do here... ignorance.... and no books.
1: set the idle switch to spec, using 3 feeler gauges. for 0.016" gap for TPS idle switch falling below 500 ohms (threshold set, carefully) see my chart?"
Yes, maybe they don't use by the books as you said, if the problem continue after I replace allhoses vaccuum also and some checking more, I'll take the vitara to a special workshop about carburator and TBI only, they began to work since 1960, because if as you said the problem is about they installed not by books and I don't have this kind of devices.. I hope they accept vitara to fix it..
"now when you start the car, it will race, as all 8v G16a do world wide, by design... (DP and IAC actions, )
the Dash pot retracts in 3 to 30 seconds, you can not change this timing, ever. it's fixed in the ECU but the DP has rpm screw, that can be lowered.
DP idle test, hot is 2500rpm, (per the book)"
Of course, I never going to change DP it retract at 3 second in could and in hot, it is as came from Factory..
"next is the IAC, (DP is retracted now) the IAC dictates rpm now. it's very much open or fully. or more if colder. (wax pellet physics here)
you can not change this. the IAC is factory calibrated in the base of the TB, if you do try to hack it. bad things happen! (never try to fool any ECU)
next ....
now the IAC is closed 100% and water is above 179F. temp. now....."
Today, I'm going to put IAC as it came from Facroty, of course, although when starting in hot r.p.m up to 2000 r.p.m..I'll se what happen after that..
"even under all loads, on, 800 rpm (fan blower, head lights, defrost grid in rear heating...) 800 rpm, with below exceptions..
a/c is 1000 (or idle up wire shorted to 12v)
p/s overloaded is 1000. (or its wire shorted to ground)2
I check this wire and it is OK in right conditions and not shorted to the ground.. A/C working also at 1000 r.p.m.. And when I lift my foot of the brake, the idle goes to 950 r.p.m about and come down to 800 r.p.m again..
"the engine, any excessive vacuum leaks will cause the ISC to lose control easy"
Yes, I suspect about that too, but my doubt is, 'if there was a leaks, why after the engine is hot and the idle is noemalized at 800 r.p.m I can drive without any problem about idle 800 r.p.m, like road signal stop, or traffic light in the city or traffic jam' ?.. Anyway,as I said you I¡m going to change all hose vacuum, just in case..
Well friend, I can send you some vÃdeo that I have, and to see you much better how the idle is running both hot and cold, but if you know how to do I'll try to send you them, they only need one minute to see..
About photo I can send you what you like, you can see the vitara model.. By the way, this model has the oxygen sensor not above the exhaust manifold but under it..
Thanks a lot again, and I hope this Sherlock Holmes's case will be over very soon