Problem to start when the engine is hot

[fixkick]

Hello Luis C.
you posted to others 16v engine. with this.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you was write me because you iare speaking about 1'6l and 16 v, and my vitara is 8v, I though was a misunderstanding and not for me but to other person.. But not problem Iill tell you all about this matter.. For the moment as you know the TBi is completely new, and I don't like to move any screw or piece sealed from the Factory, because the TBI it's still under warranty.. The engine start without foot helps I never did that during all this years and start very fast it the engine need half-turn only to start, so I suppose has not rpoblem about fuel pump or something about fuel system..

I have a new thermostat but I'm waiting to test some parts before replace it, but I think that something is wrong about coolant system.. Any way, and because you are trying to help me, I'll send you all about I see in this matter..
You tell me about oil pump and other data, thanks for that, of course, I'll see all abut.. You know, when I went to buy a new thermostat, they told me that the thermostat from 1,6 valves is more little than 8 valves, and because it's MPI, and yourr engine has injectors and my engine has only one, some pieces and data could be different, but I think the most have to be the same.. (that is correct, do not mix G16a with G16b parts, yours is G16a 8v)

Well, friend, we in touch, of course, and I'm sorry about this misunderstanding, now I'm going to do about 25 kilomenters and I'm going to make another test again.. I¡ll send other message to you and to fixkick also to know what is going on..

my guess is posted, to your page, to wrong person... can happen easy with 2 pages open... blush.

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thermostats.
im told the if your engine is from Spain, the Sanatana plant , they run their own thermostats, special.
ok you have a 1996 engine, that is setup like a 1995 here in usa, the G16B early engines.
all early engines here, have 2 intake manifolds.
the deep well and the shallow well thermostat mount. (all G16B (16v) owners must look first time and see what is there.
this dicates not the thermostat type but the gasket method. using the wrong gasket on any 4mm well lip. will cause the thermostat to float and go NUTS.
a very bad thing for EFI and engine, and IAC.

here is the factory warning page, on this fact.
if the lip is 4mm then the RING rubber must be USED , MUST.
SUZ TSB:

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when buying aftermarket thermostats.
they have a list. showing what it fits.
Suzuki uses the same VIN code for engine, in usa, for 8v and 16v (G16a and b) same. and that is a real pain here.

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see that rubber ring,
if missing on 4mm engine, it floats and the engine temperature drifts endlessly, in total chaos..... a bad place to be.
the other bad place to be IS using the above in a j18 or j20 engine as many dumb stores advise.... dead wrong.
the above is a STANT brand, a top brand here.

in better stores i can buy a 192F thermostat. (rockauto has them)
i run the BECK 688, for faster warm ups...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframec...ttype=2200

my guess:
1: new thermostat is needed badly, (yours is a grand ma, so old.)
2: need to set duty cycle. on ISC via the bleed screw on the TB.

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id like to reCAP this whole post (best i can tell, please correct me)
you 8v ran for years, and then the TV valve was found damaged (scraping? you said but not in details, )
Forensics? seems "the TV was set to closed 100% by some owner" (illegally) HE? did not like 1500 to 2000 RPM cold starts. so... started hacking...
so this owner (not pointing fingers) closed this never touch screw TV stop, then after driving , a long way, the TV dug a hole in to the TB bore and wrecked it.
(it will do that, every time)
am I correct here?????? now you need a new TB, so got one from Santana. looks nice, Ive never seen a new one, they are like $1500 here.
Thanks a million for the nice photos, the iAC cut down is a treasure !!!!


first off , the new TB was installed by the mech, im sure they did it wrong, and not by the book, most do here... ignorance.... and no books.
1: set the idle switch to spec, using 3 feeler gauges. for 0.016" gap for TPS idle switch falling below 500 ohms (threshold set, carefully) see my chart?
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tml#matrix
2: then installs it to engine, and then sets duty cycle, hot. (if thermostat is bad, all this is a just a waste of time)


now when you start the car, it will race, as all 8v G16a do world wide, by design... (DP and IAC actions, )
the Dash pot retracts in 3 to 30 seconds, you can not change this timing, ever. it's fixed in the ECU but the DP has rpm screw, that can be lowered.
DP idle test, hot is 2500rpm, (per the book)

next is the IAC, (DP is retracted now) the IAC dictates rpm now. it's very much open or fully. or more if colder. (wax pellet physics here)
you can not change this. the IAC is factory calibrated in the base of the TB, if you do try to hack it. bad things happen! (never try to fool any ECU)
next ....
now the IAC is closed 100% and water is above 179F. temp. now.....
and now only the ECU controls RPM at all times and is fixed by the ECU coding inside. (using the ISC electric idle valve_)
but we must have duty cycle set correctly in order for the ISC (ECU) to work right under all conditions of engine loading, (Alternator, PS, and AC and defrost)
800 is normal
even under all loads, on, 800 rpm (fan blower, head lights, defrost grid in rear heating...) 800 rpm, with below exceptions..
a/c is 1000 (or idle up wire shorted to 12v)
p/s overloaded is 1000. (or its wire shorted to ground)
and 800 works even in DRIVE, if by chance you are running any Auto tranny. (you have 5sp) so... forget this.

the engine, any excessive vacuum leaks will cause the ISC to lose control easy.
if the ISC is commanded shut, and rpm is above 850 RPM , the idle controls fail. some early engines when this happens the RPM'S hunt or surge.
end recap.