03-17-2020, 01:55 PM
1997 Suzuki Sidekick JS, 1.6, 5 spd ML 4 dr 97k original miles
By now, FixKick and all else are probably as frustrated as I am with this continued saga. I am utterly at my wits end and so angry and frustrated.
See Posts: Temperature Sensor or Throttle Body
https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/...p?tid=2600
and
Throttle Body/TPS
https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/...p?tid=2602
So car is still in the shop. Went in to diagnose and repair a PO400 code that would not die and misfire at idle ( I call it a hiccup but car will statrt and idle at 1500, then 1200 then 1000 then probably about 850 then drop to 500) as well as intermittent hesitation issue when cruising (the 2 threads above out line the dirty details). Drive a few minutes (2-3 miles and no problems except when you stop at light etc.) Idle initiall 850-1000RPM
when you first stop then drops to 500 while you wait for light. Green light, no issue in acceleration. No hesitation. Good response. Then when cruising with steady foot on pedal, intermittent hesitation, more foot, gresponds and goes. Drive little further. repeats. May do for 2-5 miles driving. After that, return trip home. No more hesitation incidents. Only when stop Idle about 850, drop to 500 RPMS.
Fast forward to today.
At last posting, the shop had replaced my throttle body with my spare throttle body and TPS (my 1997 car apparently had a 1995 throttle body/TPS out of the factory - who knew??!!) The one I purchased used was the correct throttle body for my 97 Kick). Last word was this measure failed. The car still having the intermittent hesitation issue when cruising at normal operating temperature and idle at a stop would drop to 500! Same as before when it first went into the hospital.
I went to shop today to talk to mechanic in person and drive car and see for myself. Questioning the mechanic to see what had been done thus far, before the throttle body and TPS swapped he stated:
1) smoke test -good
2) Vacum test - good
3) confirmed spark plugs removed and gap set correctly
4) timing has supposedly been checked and good
5) Fuel pressure checked - good
6) TPS calibrated - not just slapped on
7) ISC was cleaned when they cleaned original throttle body, intake manifold, etc. - told it wasnt very dirty at all.
I am told currently no codes and no pending codes.
8) He now states he never thought was TPS and does not think EGR issue anymore. States he thinks it is MAF and or MAP and if not ECM!!! States he never thought TPS but his boss (owner of shop thought TPS) no test - just symptoms.
Shocked, I go to drive my car.
Start up from cold (CEL no longer on and based on what he said about drive cycles since THrottle body and TPS swap it would have popped by now- my experience so far ...hmmm ), outside ambient temp about 70 degrees. Start up and RPMs about 1500, I wait and RPMS drop to about 1200. Wait more, RPMS about 1100, wait more, RPMS about 1000.
Out of curiosity, I turn on a/c compressor (no fan) and RPMS drop to 800. Turn of a/c switch back to 1000 RPMS.
Temperature guage has not moved at all. At the 1000 RPMS, I do not really notice my stutter or misfire as fixkick corrects me.
Pull out to drive car and drive about 1/4 mile. Temp guage starting to move. Stop at light to get on interstate, idle is about 800 RPMS. Temp guage now 1/2 way between cold and middle (normal operating temp) of guage for my car.
No hesitation, good acceleration, etc. Get on interstate and drive hard. Want to get to full operating temp and then cruise and check for hesitation. Not sure of mileage/distance but drove at operating temperature about 3 miles and exited interstate. While waiting at light, RPMS initially about 800 the suddenly, as usual with my issue, drop to 500 RPMS - can feel engine idle rough. But wait! RPMS bounce up to 1000 for a second then then drop back to 500!!!
On the way back to the shop with steady (cruising) speed gradually increasing, there comes my hesitation for a brief second. Apply more pedal, car responds and goes. Happens a few times on way back. If I let off pedal (no pressure a second then re-apply - get hesitation. Push pedal a tad more goes. It is very suttle. Get back to shop and sit with engine running and RPMS 500. Engine shuddering. Turned it off and went to get mechanic and report.
Start up for mechanic with hood open and he watches and I check RPMS - 500. He now states that he thinks MAF is intermittently failing. Said code for MAF popped a couple of times but next check nothing. Unplugs MAF and
engine stumbles and shudders and then RPMS start to climb - go to 1000 and pretty much stay there. He says engine should have died. I dont know any better and I am really confounded.
He states he now thinks either MAF and or MAP sensor issue and at last ECM! Really???!!!
I tell him some of Fixkick's suggestions for testing etc and also state we need to kill EGR (golf tee in Fixkick lingo) .
He says no longer thinks EGR issue. Still does not golf tee vac line to EGR.
Further discussion and head scratching...he says have you done a timing belt? I said was done almost a year ago (4/1/19) and car was running great until I started trying to defeat PO400 after 5 years driving no problems. Foolish me!!!! Said he was tempted to pull timing cover and check. If off 1 tooth.....
Wouldnt it have been an issue way before now? Been driving a year til I stated to try and battle PO400 and then got bad gas (water).
So now what? I am still without car and apparently same problem......
By now, FixKick and all else are probably as frustrated as I am with this continued saga. I am utterly at my wits end and so angry and frustrated.
See Posts: Temperature Sensor or Throttle Body
https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/...p?tid=2600
and
Throttle Body/TPS
https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/...p?tid=2602
So car is still in the shop. Went in to diagnose and repair a PO400 code that would not die and misfire at idle ( I call it a hiccup but car will statrt and idle at 1500, then 1200 then 1000 then probably about 850 then drop to 500) as well as intermittent hesitation issue when cruising (the 2 threads above out line the dirty details). Drive a few minutes (2-3 miles and no problems except when you stop at light etc.) Idle initiall 850-1000RPM
when you first stop then drops to 500 while you wait for light. Green light, no issue in acceleration. No hesitation. Good response. Then when cruising with steady foot on pedal, intermittent hesitation, more foot, gresponds and goes. Drive little further. repeats. May do for 2-5 miles driving. After that, return trip home. No more hesitation incidents. Only when stop Idle about 850, drop to 500 RPMS.
Fast forward to today.
At last posting, the shop had replaced my throttle body with my spare throttle body and TPS (my 1997 car apparently had a 1995 throttle body/TPS out of the factory - who knew??!!) The one I purchased used was the correct throttle body for my 97 Kick). Last word was this measure failed. The car still having the intermittent hesitation issue when cruising at normal operating temperature and idle at a stop would drop to 500! Same as before when it first went into the hospital.
I went to shop today to talk to mechanic in person and drive car and see for myself. Questioning the mechanic to see what had been done thus far, before the throttle body and TPS swapped he stated:
1) smoke test -good
2) Vacum test - good
3) confirmed spark plugs removed and gap set correctly
4) timing has supposedly been checked and good
5) Fuel pressure checked - good
6) TPS calibrated - not just slapped on
7) ISC was cleaned when they cleaned original throttle body, intake manifold, etc. - told it wasnt very dirty at all.
I am told currently no codes and no pending codes.
8) He now states he never thought was TPS and does not think EGR issue anymore. States he thinks it is MAF and or MAP and if not ECM!!! States he never thought TPS but his boss (owner of shop thought TPS) no test - just symptoms.
Shocked, I go to drive my car.
Start up from cold (CEL no longer on and based on what he said about drive cycles since THrottle body and TPS swap it would have popped by now- my experience so far ...hmmm ), outside ambient temp about 70 degrees. Start up and RPMs about 1500, I wait and RPMS drop to about 1200. Wait more, RPMS about 1100, wait more, RPMS about 1000.
Out of curiosity, I turn on a/c compressor (no fan) and RPMS drop to 800. Turn of a/c switch back to 1000 RPMS.
Temperature guage has not moved at all. At the 1000 RPMS, I do not really notice my stutter or misfire as fixkick corrects me.
Pull out to drive car and drive about 1/4 mile. Temp guage starting to move. Stop at light to get on interstate, idle is about 800 RPMS. Temp guage now 1/2 way between cold and middle (normal operating temp) of guage for my car.
No hesitation, good acceleration, etc. Get on interstate and drive hard. Want to get to full operating temp and then cruise and check for hesitation. Not sure of mileage/distance but drove at operating temperature about 3 miles and exited interstate. While waiting at light, RPMS initially about 800 the suddenly, as usual with my issue, drop to 500 RPMS - can feel engine idle rough. But wait! RPMS bounce up to 1000 for a second then then drop back to 500!!!
On the way back to the shop with steady (cruising) speed gradually increasing, there comes my hesitation for a brief second. Apply more pedal, car responds and goes. Happens a few times on way back. If I let off pedal (no pressure a second then re-apply - get hesitation. Push pedal a tad more goes. It is very suttle. Get back to shop and sit with engine running and RPMS 500. Engine shuddering. Turned it off and went to get mechanic and report.
Start up for mechanic with hood open and he watches and I check RPMS - 500. He now states that he thinks MAF is intermittently failing. Said code for MAF popped a couple of times but next check nothing. Unplugs MAF and
engine stumbles and shudders and then RPMS start to climb - go to 1000 and pretty much stay there. He says engine should have died. I dont know any better and I am really confounded.
He states he now thinks either MAF and or MAP sensor issue and at last ECM! Really???!!!
I tell him some of Fixkick's suggestions for testing etc and also state we need to kill EGR (golf tee in Fixkick lingo) .
He says no longer thinks EGR issue. Still does not golf tee vac line to EGR.
Further discussion and head scratching...he says have you done a timing belt? I said was done almost a year ago (4/1/19) and car was running great until I started trying to defeat PO400 after 5 years driving no problems. Foolish me!!!! Said he was tempted to pull timing cover and check. If off 1 tooth.....
Wouldnt it have been an issue way before now? Been driving a year til I stated to try and battle PO400 and then got bad gas (water).
So now what? I am still without car and apparently same problem......