cruise throttle surge

[1995 toad]

[quote pid='12278' dateline='1573705965']

that's what im talking about is line 50     vacuum coming from it.
OK you do have 50,  so this car is the mono port, intake manifold, and those gaskets must not be missing seen in the drawing for this part.
gaskets both #41 and #6, or it will suck air, "leak vacuum"
ALL VACUUM LINES MUST BE ROUTED CORRECTLY FOR EGR.


valve im talking about is the egr    not sealing vacuum coming from 50. (WHEN?, IN HAND OR ON CAR AND AT IDLE)?
the surge or miss went away with the first new EGR, ( new in the BOX EGR or used? )

after about 75 miles the CEL came on with 51 code and idle would go to about 300 or 400 then recover after about 30 seconds or so to 800 other than that it ran great. none of the idle problems show till warm.  (400RPM IS COMMON WITH EGR MAIN failed and STUCK OPEN) BLOCK HOSE 23 TO STOP THAT.)
OK, but not sure what this is next below, at all, first off , the line 50 is  always  under full vaccum, with engine running, ALWAYS due to that  is the MONO port EGR injector behind the TB. (throttle body)


pulled the new egr and found vacuum from line 50 leaking through the egr valve while at idle and exhaust side closed. (this I HAVE NO IDEA what you did , exactly)
tell what you did exactly, step by step,


installed new egr and haven't driven it yet. (EGR new #2?) new in the box, (those are not cheap, )

the only non stock thing is a gutted cat do to a slide off the road landing on cat with curb.
it had been gutted for about 2 years prior to all these issues. ( I told you the EGR is 100% disabled with no CAT,  this is a fact.  )
The vacuum leak is easy to find and cure, no matter what, we can to that. but PIPE50 must have gaskets that DO NOT EVER LEAK.


At idle I have a fairly good vacuum (haven't put a gauge on it but holds a finger tight when covered) 19 inches HG vacuum is normal hot engine 800RPM (sea level )
also at idle I have fairly good Exhaust pressure put where?( again no pressure gauge ). the correct place for gauge is at bottom of MOD hose, yours is zero.
Don't need to pass smog (GOOD) so now we know for the first time there is no CAT, and EGR is now DEAD, due to that fact. so just  defeat it.  (GOLF TEE HOSE 23)
Or make blocking plate on the EGR main #5.

How do I test the egrt probe? is it a on or off switch or at different temps, different resistances (an ohm meter and hot water is the test in the FSM and my link on this line)

no it is not any kind of switch it is in fact a thermister temperature probe,  the scales for it are in the FSM and  the EGR page I linked. and is useless now that the CAT is missing.
CAT missing means (the whole thing or the BRICK INSIDE GUTTED in any way shape or form)

if the egr doesn't seal the vacuum off that comes from hose 50 what filters that air (sure it does, car parked, and at idle SURE IT DOES:
Pipe 50 is never and air pipe ever. (it's an exhaust only pipe)
. ie like the vacuum coming to valve that's turned on by the exhaust pressure to activate the egr. ( no, that vacuum line at MOD only modulates the EGR ,exhaust flows only)

thanks much I appreciate your time

your welcome,  

---

Here are some facts: about EGR...
The EGR main has spring behind the diaphragm, with no vacuum at the EGR main #5 nibble that big spring holds the valve closed, even with main held in your hand , see that?
all that matters on this car is that, that the valve closes, in hand and mounted. (but lets now learn that the MOD vavles al fail if no CAT. even 10 new MOD valves fail.

The CAT missing causes , not full backpressure to show up at Exhaust manifold port #4 (this is how the MOD valve works it measures #4 exhaust back pressure,)

The CODE 51 happens due to the MOD valve is now DEAD, CAT dead equals MOD VALVE DEAD, with MOD valve DEAD , EGRT will read cold all the time, and the DTC 51 test fail.
this is how all Sidekicks work 89 to 98,  every one G16 does this. this way. until J18 happened. engine. twin cam engine, happened.

The MOD valve is the Brains behind this EGR, system. the MOD , senses CAT back pressure and then sets vacuum flow to the MAIN-5
the faster  you go and more load on the engine (hills) the more CAT back pressures happens (yours is zero) and MORE EGR FLOW HAPPENS that way.

• Egr is not active at idle (ECU logic and VSV slave closed)
  
• EGR is not active until rear wheels turn, over 0mph, (ECU logic for this CALIF class EGR CAR) all this is normal , making EGR tests very hard parked,(the FSM covers how on jackstands)
  
• egr IS OFF LINE UNTIL ENGINE IS HOT (AS YOU CAN SEE at idle egr is offline 
  
• EGR never flows until CAT produces valid  back pressure (this is RUBE GOLDBERG system , SURE ) and works just like 95 toyota's too. (all common then)
  

The only issues, are:
EGR dead, best is to just block hose 23, so the thing can't stick open. and cause 400 RPM.
The DTC 51 fails, so you can use  3 cent resistor the fool the thing and and stop 51s. 10k ohms again covered here, fully, code 53 happens if EGRT is missing, or just unplugged.
If you must have working EGR that takes a working CAT, even one dead but has normal back-pressure, works. (UNTIL 1996 and cat tests started in OBD2, means working cat 100%)

SORRY !
I do not understand your comments on ID 50 leaks, this pipe is under full vacuum at all times running, for a fact. so not sure what you did there.? but must be kept gasket sealed. see PHOTO below for WHY !
or engiine  will go lean at idle. sucking air like that. vacuum leaks are all bad, and worse if many happen.'
No vacuum leaks from the intake valves to the MAF are good, no GOOD can happen with those leaks.  (the reason is that is un METERED AIR (MAF = meter)

The MONO port injector , injects exhaust gasses only , at no time does it send  AIR , no vacuum leaks.  that is the goal and purpose the exhaust lower combustion temps and NOX faLLS VERY LOW (SMOG GAS TOXIC)

I have this photo I made , one of the few ever made I guess.  showing the newers 95  upgrade, and better MONOPORT> EGR INJECTOR.

WITH A GOOD CAT,  THIS MONO PORT #1 BELOW IS THE # 1 FAILURE ON egR AND MAIN FAILING IS # TWO.  I HAVE THE TV BLOCKED OPEN FULLY HERE.


btw the new manifold with MONO PORT (not quad) does work on all years 92-98 we tried it, and is best, for working EGR. (less labor to keep it going in fact)

THIS PORT ABOVE has VACUUM full time running, IT SUCKS THERE AT 19" HG INCHES  OF VACUUM AT IDLE. BUT NO AIR LEAKS AT #1 EVER. BECAUSE EGR MAIN IS CLOSED.

I presume each new EGR you installed the EGRT was moved from the old and put on the new, and  UNSTATED .???

there are many things to fail here, vacuum leaks, here they are, Not full list just EGR list.

• Egr hose routed wrong. for sure at pipe set 14
  

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yes I have line 50 and both gaskets are new and tight
All lines are there and look to be properly located.

it is in my hand when I am putting vacuum to the port where the line 50 would attach. and it will not hold a vacuum.
the valve was new in the box from oreilys auto. the second one was a warranty replacement. first cost $150 ish.
I will try the blocking of the 23 hose. I did put pressure on the exhaust side of the egr and got no leakage.

So with no cat the egr will always show a code 51 because there is not enough pressure to operate the mod valve? At Idle I have pressure that I can feel at the egr mounting flange where it comes out of the block. how much pressure is needed to operate the mod valve. 
not to say the egr was operating but it didn't throw any codes in the about year and a half that the cat had been gutted. 

so putting a plate over the egr mounting boss should keep line 50 from leaking vacuum. and plug the  exhaust port if I threaded the probe into that plate would that keep the egr code from appearing or is the resistor the only way to trick that?

I still need to drive this new egr and see if the code comes back and the Idle is still affected.

I just find it strange that the old egr was working or not throwing codes to be more specific. with the cat gutted.

 Ill try to figure out how to add pics in here and show you better what Im not very good at explaining... more of a mechanical guy than a tech guy.

thanks again.