Pag oil, type & amount

[Trackerman96]

First post here so hello.
(1) I am in the process of replacing my compressor, condenser and receiver/dryer. I am also going to remove and flush the evaporator. My FSM for my 96 Tracker page 1d-6 lists compressor oil cap as 90cc. Page 1b-31 lists system capacity of 100ml (100cc). I realize that when you open and flush the system and replace parts that you have to add extra oil so I am guessing the 10ml (10cc) difference is for the total empty system. Page 1b-27 says to add 10ml for a new receiver/drier but I can't find info in the FSM about adding any extra for the empty condenser & evaporator.

(2) About the pag oil. I ordered a kit from Buy Auto Parts and it came with a bottle of pag 100. From what I read this is a universal oil. The compressor came with 150ml (cc) of pag 46. I read the links to the TBS and other info posted here about the switch to pag 46 and some other sites that list pag46 as the OEM correct oil. The new compressor is a Sanden type but is a Samson made in China. I called BAP and the guy said to drain the pag 46 and install the correct amount of pag 100 since it was specified for my application. Which oil is correct?
I know this is a long first post so I apologize in advance. I am not a noob to the Trak/kick just this forum.
TM96
BTW, I can't read the a/c sticker under the hood so no help there.

[fixkick]

is this R12 or R134a (tracker can be USA or canada, not sure on canada)
the oil an amount of Freon, are a match . (types and volume)
there are tables for R134, and the total oil to use machine the weight of R134a.
the other dictator of oil is the maker of the compressor, id use there advice, for sure.
some makes of Suzuki's world wide use different compressors. and even if one supplier can deliver up in CAMI that day, (JIT rules)

so data can be wrong or JIST an average of all compressors used then, and changing volumes.
BAP., like in BAP GEON? a store, not and A.C service shop, is this a clerk? (like asking store clerk at Autozoned questions, head/palm hits, omg,,
never listen to clerks or me,..... lol

TALK to SANDEN, (or read there online docs i would)
they have tables. for sure,

the tables will shows total refrigerant volumes against
and matching oil volume for R134a.

these tables were used long ago, by a Suzuki engineer, he just does wath Sanden told him. (and may be different in 2016 , sure can be)
for sure.
ask any real A.C guy, this, not any clerks, all they know is on their useless screens( wrong car, wrong model, engine, body size, wrong year, wrong, version a/c or NOT UP TO DATE)

1996 was a long time ago.
some compressor makers now make different compressors, with different internal volumes and new efficiency. (the do that, via evolution)
some just list the R134a volume (or weight is best) and oil volume.
it's simple ratio that is best for the compressor full life. (really make the Compressor happy, is answer)

that is all I know..... not so smart.... but read all i can.

---

keep in mind
some here run propane, for refrigerant. and other types, not R134a.

[Trackerman96]

It has R134a and was built in Canada. I would like to find a 96-97 to look at the a/c sticker or find someone here that has one that would look at theirs for me.
TM96

[fixkick]

i think its just a boring, (this veh, uses R134a sticker)

per here....96 Geo tracker FSM.

http://www.acksfaq.com/trackerfsm.htm

[Trackerman96]

JTGH, The link is to the exact pages that are in my FSM. I know that my Tracker uses 134a that is why I didn't mention it in my OP. I need to know about the correct amount and type of PAG but obviously you don't have the information I need. Nearly every site that relates to oil type and capacity has different information. Since the FSM is suspect at times with incorrect specifications I was looking to an old pro like you a little guidance.
TM96

[fixkick]

im sorry
but only that pump maker can answer this. (the lube oil is for their compressor internals.)
the compressors can have different internal volumes (after this many years, the new pumps can change , old pumps are very inefficient so many evolved)
and the oils, some oil makers now make an oil that works for both old and new refrigerant, same oil..
they did that to cure the problems with owners mixing refrigerant. (after all , say car is 1994 and cant find r12, so.... in goes R134 and pray)
BTW what part/number? SDxxxxxx compressor is it?
here is one example of there data sheet book. easy to find today,,,, and more easy if p/n is known...

and first a quote from SD, (its a range of pag/to refridg. concentrations)

"The Sanden SD series
compressor achieves optimal durability and cooling performance when oil circulates
through the system at a ratio of 3.3% to 8% oil to refrigerant."
end quote

this means the total volume is needed, to calculate this. (total system volume is all we need, for sure)
Suzuki never did that. but the compressors them self , vary 2:1 in internal capacity.
How ever ive seen others dig deep and find total volume, but i forget where it was found.... sorry.
then run it at 5% oil

check this out...
http://www.sanden.com/productlibrary/man..._rev_2.pdf


this book is really good. check out page 27, for the huge complexities, if calculating, what's left in the system. (they dont want to go over 8% is reason....)

[Trackerman96]

fixkick, Thanks for the information, is explains a lot about the amount of system oil needed. Going by the FSM it states 10ml difference between what the compressor holds and full system volume. It appears that more is needed since the FSM said to add 10ml for the receiver/drier replacement. My compressor is a Sanden model SD7B10 and on a spec page by them it listed pag 46 oil as correct expect in the SD7B10 with a keyed shaft and it lists Pag 100 as the correct one.
I am going to pull the parts tomorrow and drain the original compressor to see just how much oil is in it. I probably should have done that first for a reference/starting point. I will take that oil to an a/c shop and find out what viscosity it is.
Thanks again,
TM96

[fixkick]

total volume and the most important is mixing oils, some might not like each other. only a true A/C pro can comment on this part.... very complex , chemistry issues and outside my play grade.
somewhere deep in google search land,, i saw a site that had volumes listed. for all Vitara's (etc) by year. (i saw it 5 years ago, and forget where)
and the 8v and 16v have different routing, and pipe volume's. so might 2door and 4. can have differences,,,, but i think not.

fixkick, Thanks for the information, is explains a lot about the amount of system oil needed. Going by the FSM it states 10ml difference between what the compressor holds and full system volume. It appears that more is needed since the FSM said to add 10ml for the receiver/drier replacement. My compressor is a Sanden model SD7B10 and on a spec page by them it listed pag 46 oil as correct expect in the SD7B10 with a keyed shaft and it lists Pag 100 as the correct one.
I am going to pull the parts tomorrow and drain the original compressor to see just how much oil is in it. I probably should have done that first for a reference/starting point. I will take that oil to an a/c shop and find out what viscosity it is.
Thanks again,
TM96

[Trackerman96]

The mixing of oil is my concern as well. I read on a couple a/c sites and forums that even if you drain and change to a different compressor oil and flush the old components that a film of the old oil remains. The Johnson control page about oils & capacities said to use pag 100 in the Tracker and pag 46 in the Sidekick but the capacity is the same. I really hope that I have pag 46 in it now since the new one came with it already installed.
TM96

[fixkick]

in a pro a/c shop
they use flush first.
when a compressor fails, it can leave (bits of metal, ) contamiation in the system and my damage the new compressor
so after recovery, of Freon, they flush. it. (in the reverse im told and for sure at condenser , in the reverse)

for sure, the compressor maker, sets the rules on the oil, not Suzuki, Geo/GM, nor anyone else.
not what was true, 20 years ago,, use what the modern compressor maker states. (both the compressors have evolved and oils, )

the only thing not shown in FSM is the system volume. (sadly)


some web sites stated its 21 ounces. volume
and 6oz of pag 46,
or 177cc. (converted to cc)

Flush kits.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/maste...22982687-P

The mixing of oil is my concern as well. I read on a couple a/c sites and forums that even if you drain and change to a different compressor oil and flush the old components that a film of the old oil remains. The Johnson control page about oils & capacities said to use pag 100 in the Tracker and pag 46 in the Sidekick but the capacity is the same. I really hope that I have pag 46 in it now since the new one came with it already installed. ( i think this is old data)
TM96

refr: (20oz systems are about average)
http://www.techchoiceparts.com/refrigera...rst#suzuki

except:



so if capacity is 21 oz.
then the compressor makers datasheets will work to calculate the correct oil, type and cc , amount.