smog fail

[Lon]

1993 sidekick 1600 cc 16 valve.
Will not pass smog , No2 too high.
new EGR , new EGR modulator new Cat

TEST #1 replaced cat
No2@ 15 mph should be 568 (PPM) max. tested 1273
No2 @ 25 mph should be 821 (PPM) max. tested 994
TEST #2 reset timing from 8deg BTDC to 5 deg , rewired fan to run full time, used up fuel and refilled with 92 octane. ( high NO2 is from high combustion chamber temp)
15 mph NO2 went from 1273 to 939 PPM (still too high)
25 mph NO2 went from 994 to 814 . That passes (821 max)
TEST #3 new EGR and new EGR modulator
15 mph went from 939 ppm to 1581 FAIL
25 mph went from 814 (passing) to 1497 Fail

Please help , I do not want to loose my sidekick

[fixkick]

1993 sidekick 1600 cc 16 valve.
Will not pass smog , No2 too high.
new EGR , new EGR modulator new Cat
what gasses? below fails to say gasses.
scan the smog fail paper, like on my smog page, this only works, i need all words on page, including other gases, like 02? and CO2 if present.
like this.
http://www.fixkick.com/smog/smog95-16v-passing.jpg

ok no2 means nitros-oxide, (NOX is same) or (NO)
TEST #1 replaced cat
No2@ 15 mph should be 568 (PPM) max. tested 1273 (NOX) your EGR IS DEAD<!
No2 @ 25 mph should be 821 (PPM) max. tested 994 same.


day #2 reset timing from 8deg BTDC to 5 deg , rewired fan to run full time, used up fuel and refilled with 92 octane. ( high NO2 is from high combustion chamber temp)
15 mph NO2 went from 1273 to 939 PPM (still too high) EGR IS STILL DEAD> be it known, the EGR gets half and the new cat 2nd half and never ALL.
25 mph NO2 went from 994 to 814 . That passes (821 max) same.

Day #3 new EGR and new EGR modulator (but did not do my EGR tests, there are many many fail points that 2 new parts never fix)

15 mph went from 939 ppm to 1581 FAIL
25 mph went from 814 (passing) to 1497 Fail

Please help , I do not want to loose my sidekick

you wont, we can fix it , I promise.

test one the stall test.
do that yet.?
test 2, the bark test. 1 and 2.

---

1993 (is it the mono port intake man or quad port (right side photo of engine answers that super easy)
off a brand new kick , would fail if the EGR is dead.
all will,
the cat can not , cut all NOX, to spec.
cant.
causes:
1: vacuum line to egr mod dead.
2: egr mode, hose , the bark hose dead.
3: exh man port 4 clogged.
4: egr head tunnel clogged
5: intake man, S bend tunnel packed.
6: EGR mono port packed, easy fix.
7: EGR quad ports backed (egr 4 injectors0 packed, bad news, a royal pain to clean, easy in concept, hard in practice. but if manifold pulled, easy.

---

im king of kick egr.... done many ,helped 100s. no brag, its boring job.. but love to help folks fix it.

---

the ecu does not flash code 51 on demand, 51 means EGR dead.

---

http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-choice.html

---

i think your intake is quad, egr ports.
4 to clean, if it fails.

[Lon]

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure what you been by "BARK" test , will do EGR (and bark test if i can find out what it is) test Friday morning.

If I scan my smog papers how do I post them?

You asked if it is mono port or quad port , how do I tell ?

[fixkick]

welcome back. !!
step one is the stall test.
see links below...
the stall test, is to push the diaphragm ring, of the egr main valve, at hot idle is best (its hot so be careful)
we use hand vacuum tool preventing burned fingers. (below is guy using a Mightvac™ tool... hand vacuum way. no hot fingers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPO7B7yH43w
the engine almost stalls, rpm is near 400 rpm.
your egr main is new, so this test is super easy , its not jammed, now.
this is not your G16b engine, its the 16a 8v, and the main is not there, yours is behind the intake #4 runmer/
see my gen2 page, generation 2 sidekicks and tracker. 16valves, MPI G16B engines. early intake,.
the first section answers the stall test and the slide show, shows all parts related. see it?
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html

what is stall test, answser:
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html#STALL


what is bark test, answer
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html#BARK

the bark test has two forms.
the bottom tube of the EGR MOD, (larger than the side tubes)
must bark or do putt putt sounds, when removed on an idling engine, if NOT, the pathes are blocked.
my guess is the stall tests fails.
my 2nd guess, is the bark test 1 fails.
then we do bark 2 test. (note im going from simple easy to harder work) why do extra work, i say but other just clean it all and it works. your call that. huh?
now i remove the egr main 2x 6mm screws.
its off now. engine off
i then put cork here, (rubber stopper or what ever you want , wooden cone , or ?)
seen here (put a cork in hole large, RIGHT) (suck side)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/egrports002.jpg
if that hole is full of carbon, then its hopeless.
if not cork it and start the engine
the other hole (left in photo above) barks real load at idle Putt Putt putt.. see? the bark test, if not that path is blocked, as most are.
on most these old cars all paths are blocked., zero service, the stall test is like a 50,000 mile test. every 50k, per FSM( not beating my fsm bible,sorry)
this ends tests, takes about 30min to do all that. and shows whats wrong.
if unlucky the vacuum side fails. most dont.
but if stall fails, that is 1st.
if the bark test 1 or 2 fails, that is for sure next. cause above. too.
if the stall test passes we then go to vacuum testing.

there are 3 pathes here.
exhaust.
vacuum
and ECU electrics.


this is the ring to push
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/egr-main2.jpg

see that metal ring, that is the stall ring,(my name)
see bark tube,this is bark tube test 1.

keep asking questions, its best. way.

photos up load easy, click gallery button above.
the Actuators.
and then add photos.
browse to photo and save,
then link it up here, or just tell me, its in actuators now.

last is the INTAKE manifold.
im sure yours is the quad port, but ive been fooled before (parts get swapped)
the new engine has what i call the side winder tube of sst stainless steel
the quad port no such part.
the CALIF engine when to mono port 1 year early., 1994? I have the VIN rules but , its not important only this tube matters. #50
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/92-95-EGR-16v.jpg

i bet you dont have #50 SST side winder tube (EGR)
and is the more difficult to clean. quad port.

cheers,

PS: all this must work or the NOX will fail. as your car proves.....w/ new cat.

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure what you been by "BARK" test , will do EGR (and bark test if i can find out what it is) test Friday morning.

If I scan my smog papers how do I post them? SURE.

You asked if it is mono port or quad port , how do I tell ?

---

if that is too much info at once
we can do this serially.

the stall tests is first.
push the ring
or suck the vacuum nipple on EGR main, with hand vac tool. of any make. hot engine. is best.
running.

what happens is Egr main opens 100% and flows, exhaust like and car driving at full speed up a hill, max EGR flow, and that is why it near stalls.(at idle)

[Lon]

Fixkick
once again , thanks for your reply
O.K. truck "stumbles " when i apply a vacuum to the EGR at hot idle.
I included my smog test reports per your instructions.

test #1… timeing @ 8 deg. BTDC 87 octane gas started to over heat (no fan ) new cat

%CO2 %O2 HC (PPM) CO (%) NO (PPM)
Test RPM MEAS MEAS MAX AVE MEAS MAX AVE MEAS MAX AVE MEAS RESULTS
15 MPH 2023 12.5 3.0 97 35 21 0.79 0.07 0.0 568 183 1273 FAIL
25 MPH 2372 12.8 2.9 62 22 16 0.96 0.09 0.0 821 232 994 FAIL

test #2…. timing 5 deg. BTDC 97 octane gas fan rewired for continues running

15 mph 1967 12.5 3.1 97 35 27 0.79 0.07 0.0 568 183 939 FAIL
25 mph 2325 12.8 2.8 62 22 15 0.95 0.09 0.0 821 232 814 PASS

test #3 new EGR valve New EGR modulator

15 mph 1980 12.9 2.5 97 36 32 0.79 0.07 0.01 568 183 1581 FAIL
25 mph 2315 13.0 2.2 62 22 29 0.95 0.09 0.01 821 232 1497 FAIL

[fixkick]

what does no fan mean.?
you can not run a car , Rad fan free, or it will overheat at all stop signs. (and serious engine damage)
(no air across radiator , assures that)

you typed that , in , sorry if you did, use cell phone camera and put it in gallery, just edit out private stuff. the post it.
1581 FAIL (we can work this)

good news the hard part to fix is ok. the nasty exhaust path , flows, (but it might be only 2 of 4 injectors flowing,,, so ???)
we will find out later.


if forgot to ask you
did you insert the diagnostic jumper in the DLC connect and get flash code 12s, not 51s?
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/CEL.html#OBD1codes
some errors (DTC) can cause EGR to go off line.
my guess code 12s, = good. (no guess)


but first lets make sure (im sure this will work) but is easy so..
see that mod valve. see bottom thicker hose,?
remove it running hot or cold, , cold safer.
it must putt.
it burps there , over and over, it will because your egr is new, and the head tunnel, and exh. manifold is free flowing...

ok the bark tube works.

next we race engine and see of the EGR opens on its own.
for now we will check the smart side, vacuum and electrics.

93 16v
in later years 1994 and later, you must drive faster than 1 mph for egr to open
but on early years no.

TEST A: alpha
just gun the throttle (by hand) and the EGR main, must open by its self.
does it?
It will take a mirror to see it. may take a hot engine. to get it to wake up. and all are dead at idle (2 ways dead at idle or ,3 ways in 1994+)
it will open more as you gun the throttle more.

if not?, it;'s dead. we fix that. (it will be dead i bet)

if the egr does not open the EGR valve, gunned.
2 possibles (wrong ECU in car ,as 94 or 95,) If true we do test with extra step)
or
below is messed up:
using that hand vacuum tool as a vacuum gauge.
i pull the P hose end at 22 connect the gauge there, if it dont pull 2 to 8 inches of vacuum move gauge forward.
connect it up to each line 1 by 1
gauge to end of 19 (same) vacuum
gauge to end of 16
if 16 fails the Throttle body port is clogged. easy fix.
if 16 is ok, then VSV is bad. (must be racing idle , to open this vsv, or
no, the vsv bad or ecu wrong ecu. (ECU ofter july1 1993 build may be in truth 1994 ecu and special rules) if this fails tell me.. we do 1 more simple test.
yes, good. VSV works.,
line 19 good makes 22 good, if lines metal not swapped to hoses.
ok we made it to MOD.
we have vacuum to the mod P nipple gunned.
now 22, "Q" nipple, same deal but modulated vacuum, is here, if its dead, 0vac here then the EGR fails above. TEST A:
the one common fail on the mode is easy,
clean its MOD filter then clean hole path.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/modva...-test.html

see red path here
this is a hidden passage, that LOVES to clog, clean it and almost all MODs start working.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/modul...tioned.JPG

your car.,

---

ask questions ,its easy but tedious...

also check EGR VSV coil for ohms, (35 IIRC) not infinity. not 0 ohms.

---

in each case using the store bought $1 Tee fitting for vacuum lines.
sold in the store section with screws, and help parts. etc. easy find.

---

at the worst a $10 walmart DMM meter, or better.
to check vsv ohms and volts.

---

at the worst worst, we put rear axle , on jack stands. to spin tires. (94+ ecu)

---

i forgot to ask,, im getting old.
does your speedometer work>?

---

there is a tricky part here.
in any rate a vacuum gauge shows vacuum on P or Q , WITH GAUGE DEAD HEADED THERE. GUNNED THROTTLE,
MY GUESS IS, Q PORT IS DEAD.
IF P NIPPLE IS GOOD AND P FAILS. THE FILTER OR HIDDEN VENT IS CLOGGED, OR THE PUTT TUBE IS DEAD(<ITS NOT)

now tricky test B: (say, WE have vacuum to MOD P, above GUAGE SHUNT TEST.)
we can run hot engine and gun throttle by hand.
and remove (extend) hose 13, hose 13 still on mod nipple, you blow into 13 and the MOD locks up, and the EGR main opens . and engine wants to stall.
vacuum at P and lips blowing 13 hose you can lockup the MOD easy. and when that happens vacuum goes from P to Q , like a shot..

mod video
bench test. the p to q is just a pipe with V valve in middle.
so if I bow 13 nipple and pump the hand pump, the V valve closes and latches up. (finger on end of q nipple sealing it)
http://www.fixkick.com/videos/FLV-all/sh...tml#EGRMOD

---

we can do this step by step, if you need it.

[Lon]

OK fixKik
I ran all the EGR tests you suggested , and every thing seems to be ok.
The only "RED FLAG" is , I get "code 51" when I jump terminal "c" to "b" on the monitor coupler,
BUT the CEL does not come on when the engine is running ,only before starting.
You ask if my intake is a "quad port". I see four individual intake runners (one for each cylinder) if that is what you mean?
You asked about the cooling fan , it is electric and when the temp gage goes up over its normal position , i turn the the fan on.

Thanks again !!

[fixkick]

OK fixKik
I ran all the EGR tests you suggested , and every thing seems to be ok.
The only "RED FLAG" is , I get "code 51" when I jump terminal "c" to "b" on the monitor coupler,
BUT the CEL does not come on when the engine is running ,only before starting.
You ask if my intake is a "quad port". I see four individual intake runners (one for each cylinder) if that is what you mean?
You asked about the cooling fan , it is electric and when the temp gage goes up over its normal position , i turn the the fan on.

Thanks again !!

pull the dome fuse. at left knee, fuse box. wait 5min put back
all errors are erased in the ecu. code 51 means EGR is failing. (but we knew that, and so does your ECU)
so the EGR main, valve opens when engine is hot. and throttle is gunned, hard,
this means 1 to 4 of the EGR injectors are clogged. (common as nails) The EGR main opens , regardless if there is full flow or not. (its just vacuum operated)

see the first 4photo frames here, there are 4 intake, ports, 4 fuel injectors and 4 egr injectors. a quad Intake it is for EGR, (in latter 1995 became 1 port , the mono port)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95...index.html
for every port clogged, that port expels huge NOX gasses, more than and any CAT can control (to federal spec)
this intake needs service.

the quad port , has paths like this.


not fun to clean at all.




if you look here, on the right see 4 plugs.
those block off what are called drillings. (drilled day one in the aluminum foundry)
ive removed the plugs and cleaned the paths, then used short screws to seal it back. (there are many artistic way to clean this and make plugs)

the 4 EGR PORT injector drillings at the actual ports can be rod'ed out with wire, too. to get them cleaned out and free flowing.
one or more are clogged, my guess all 4.
as is usually the case.

good luck, to you.
cheers,

[Lon]

OK Fix
took off the intake manifold today (WHAT A JOB THAT IS). Used a piece of the outer shielding from an old choke cable
in a drill motor to clean out the EGR manifold. I felt no resistance. I poured in a mixture of alcohol , Murphy's oil soap and peroxide
(I use this to clean my black powder guns) , ran the choke cable in again , this time it came out a gooy mess.
used a garden hose to flood the manifold and all four EGR jets were spraying a stream of water about 4mm in diameter.
I don't think the EGR jets were plugged .
Almost forgot , what do you use to clean out the EGR tube?

NOW WHAT ???????????

[fixkick]

OK Fix
took off the intake manifold today (WHAT A JOB THAT IS). It sure is.

Used a piece of the outer shielding from an old choke cable ( a real good way)
in a drill motor to clean out the EGR manifold. I felt no resistance.?
I poured in a mixture of alcohol , Murphy's oil soap and peroxide
(I use this to clean my black powder guns) , ran the choke cable in again , this time it came out a gooey mess.
used a garden hose to flood the manifold and all four EGR jets were spraying a stream of water about 4mm in diameter. (and were blocked before ,right?)
I don't think the EGR jets were plugged .
Almost forgot , what do you use to clean out the EGR tube? (which tube? is this)

NOW WHAT ???????????

with the manifold off. (i hope it still is , the process is serial, and based off what is found, inch by inch
the photo above shows 2 paths, Input side of main egr and output, the INPUT is a complex S bend, in the intake, this must be free flowing. the hole path is large. 8mm?

then the head is next make that head tunnel clear, using your black powder, gun cleaners etc, i think its 8mm bore.
the when it clean , blow in that whole it must blow easy or the exhaust manifold #4 S bend hole is blocked.

this is the INTAKE S bend.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95...age_4.html
here is my exh #4 blockage.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95...ge_10.html

here is my head tunnel blocked, (all mine were 90 to 100% blocked on 3 cars)

once clear , then the main EGR can flow max flow to you can pass the 25mph ROLLER test. i think this test is under load, and what puts big demand on EGR to pass.


tricks. one time i used a drill bit to drill out a very stuborn egr tunnel.
and same deal on 1996, mono port you dont have.
drills can work ok, in some cases, once size is found. carefully.

the trick is to get the ability to attain max egr flow.
keep in mind that if all paths are 50% clogged, then net max flow is not 50% it can be a very weak flow, and the source is very far away,,,, long and makes many turns.
not a very good design.. (me?, id have run external sst tubing pipe end to end, easy to fix/clean/replace)
dont feel bad, most toyota;'s and honda's had this and in a real Toy shop. they'd sell you a new intake at $500 to $1000 then tack on labor..... so your on the correct path..

the flow is here.
they try to get you up on this hump,

---

DIY testing
the moving, not moving rules, are very hard to know.
Questions that can help me , is: is it a 1993 16v , is car 4wd/2wd, 4doors, , a/T or m/t trans? (does hood sticker say Calif in the words anywhere?)

the 1993 ECU and 92 are same ecu. on a/t box.. 58B40 ecu, (p/n prefix) FED
you told me the EGR main valve opens, gunning the throttle , so if that is true, then we know its the early ECU.
you may not know this but ECUs get swapped. and makes diagnosis , crazy hard, if was swapped.
some 93 and all 94 and up ECU , you must be moving to get the EGR open. (or hand spin a rear tire, as shown in ECU (FSM trick they teach )
so yours opens, moving,,, this is a good deal for you , so you can test the EGR parked, in neutral, and just hand on throttle.
much more easy to diagnosis , this ECU is.

see this hood tag
see the CALIFornia words,
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/h...age_4.html

its always good to know what beast it is.... fully.

EGR H3LL , is no fun, but WILL be , cured soon.

---

as one ASE tech told , me,
your tests are not definitive!
but he is only 1/2 right. if my tests fail, they do point to causes of hard failure reasons.
but he is correct, when you look at total exh. flow.
sometimes, many times, the flow is low , due to cumulative, restrictions, and no full blockages. and net flow is too low to pass smog.
i like to do the tests and then fix what's wrong. (gee if vacuum is wrong, or vsv dead or electrics dead, that be like first and 10x more easy)
others clean it end to end. missing not an inch (me at 19yo, grin)
and then when it fails, do the other tests on vacuum and ecu commanded VSV tests.

one easy fix . i always clean is the RED marked, EGR modulator, vent path. (in my drawing)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/modul...tioned.JPG
if this is not clear, big hell to pay.
that is because it will prevent the load sensing to be accurate, and weak EGR flows.

there are 3 systems that must work here.
i always look for the simple easy fixes first... lazy bum i am.

good luck !!!