Geo Tracker will crank over but won't start

[brandonb]

Hey guys,

First off, I would like to thank the owner/maintaine of fixkick.com for the valuable information on this website. I have had 3 kicks/trackers so far and it has been invaluable in the upkeep for these vehicles. With that being said, I have seemingly come to a stop.

I bought a tracker with problems from a guy last week. The tracker will crank over, but not start. Here are some observations I have made:

*Has spark, but very weak
*ECM does not show CEL. Have measured CEL with multimeter to be good, have also measured voltage output at ECU and no voltage out for CEL. Have replaced ECU with same part number tested good, no change
*Gas gauge works and fuel pump primes on key turn
*Vehicle has fuel is fuel is coming to the throttle body (turned key while return line unplugged and fuel came out)

With these things being said, I was wondering if anyone could point me i the right direction? I am thinking maybe the ECU is not getting power, but it's a 1994 2 door automatic, and the site says spark is controlled by the ECU. Any suggestions?

[fixkick]

we call this a Field kick or found on road dead, how long was it dead. 1 day, 1 year. 1 decade...? any idea? (bad gas.)

Hello and greetings to you...!!

Hey guys,

First off, I would like to thank the owner/maintaine of fixkick.com for the valuable information on this website. I have had 3 kicks/trackers so far and it has been invaluable in the upkeep for these vehicles. With that being said, I have seemingly come to a stop. your weclome

I bought a tracker 94 with problems from a guy last week. The tracker will crank over, but not start. Here are some observations I have made:

*Has spark, but very weak (check timing (dizzy first then cam, if the timing belt slips every 60k it does that)
*ECM does not show CEL. Have measured CEL with multimeter to be good, have also measured voltage output at ECU and no voltage out for CEL. Have replaced ECU with same part number tested good, no change
NO CEL , you mean the LAMP fails to glow , key on? if yes, this is cause by below list:
1:lamp burned out.
2: PO taped it or front lens over with black tape.
3: wires cut to same
4: 12v power to the lamp missing. this kills many other things in the speedo so will be obvious.

the FSM shows how to find a dead CEL easy, on the first page of EFI, they pull the connector that is for CEL on the ECU.
pull both (it has lever locks do not force it) and you then ground the CEL pin, then key on, and it must glow. if not the lamp or wires are cut.

very hard to diagnose any EFI system (obd1) any 94. 2dr.




*Gas gauge works and fuel pump primes on key turn
If the ECU thinks (measure) that spark is bad, the Ecu ALWAYS CUTS FUEL, THIS IS HARD LOGIC INSIDE ECU.

*Vehicle has fuel is fuel is coming to the throttle body (turned key while return line unplugged and fuel came out)
ok 8V IS TBi AND ONLY TBI HAS RETURN LINE AT THROTTLE BODY, GOOD ! ITS AN 1994 8V, ENGINES AND EFI


With these things being said, I was wondering if anyone could point me i the right direction? I am thinking maybe the ECU is not getting power, but it's a 1994 2 door automatic, and the site says spark is controlled by the ECU. Any suggestions?

sure my no start page covers all ways, over 50.
but forget that. and old cars , making assumptions, is bad. anything is possible on any car 1994, its OLD.
in order all cars (compression, spark then fuel)
PO is previous owners. or ?
1: what is the engine compression x4 ,wide open throttle. 150psi? or 80? if 80 or way low on all 4 that means the belt is slippled or keys sheared.
if unmolested by PO the causes spark to be weak too, as the rotor is now way off the mark. (to far to jump between towers on cap)

2: did you then using a timing light crank motor to see if the spark lands near 0 to 10 degrees before TDC, BTDC,? left side of scale looking at said scale?
if not, PO spun the dizzy or the timing belt slipped. and PO set spark timing to match the wrong cam timing, compounding the errors......
3. if cam is right and dizzy timed, the car will now start with test fuel, then die maybe but the test fuel test passes. (instant start in a can)
4: if you get this far, make sure the ECU is not flashing codes 41 or 42 cranking for 5seconds, with the DIAG jumper planted, in the DLC.
5: ok ECU not flashing bad codes, we then
6:look down the air horn of TB, throttle body, is the injector squirting?
yes/no.

yes,the fuel is bad.
no, injection is failing.
(if no code 41,42 and no squirting of mono injector, you then use a NOID light, ask) see why not having a good lamp is so important? <<< here.!
The ecu grounds the CEL , key on, to make it glow, it does that with a single transistor inside the ECU.
if the lamp has 12vdc in the cluster, it must glow. or its burned out. my speedo page covers the way to fix that.


all steps are here (no START)
http://www.fixkick.com/nostart.html


I SKIPPED ONE CHECK,sorry.
weak spark, did you do that at the coil there are 5 tests for spark, 1 at coil and 4 at spark plugs. (96+ diffr)
using a real sparkplug, fresh, and gapped at 0.028" or near. that. blue-white spark not orange.


let me know how you do.?
cheers.

[brandonb]

Thank you for the information. Used a new plug for spark tests, first tested from cylinder 1 plug wire, then directly from coil wire (no dizzy). Both times very weak bluish spark.

The tracker had only sat for a few days, he said he was going down the road and it just stopped and would not crank. No smoke, weird noises, anything. Truck turns over fine.

Truck was out of gas when I got it, put good fuel in it to check with.

I have read your page on no start a couple times, could grounding to ECM be the issue, even though I am getting (weak) spark? The CEL bulb is good and with multimeter I did not get voltage out for the CEL. I have an FSM coming this week to help. The engine has been swapped (same model), so bad ground may be issue from your page?

[fixkick]

94 2door tracker, the Cal cars are all 16v but not federal 48 cars in USA< I can not speculate as to what engine you have. sure 1.6L but what head?
how many injectors do you have.

is the car in fact a 8valve TBI engine car. or 16v MPI?

i think to get cel work first, this is best plan on all cars 89 to present. what if it has critical failure information?
the ECU does not send voltage to the CEL lamp.
the ecu can only ground it ,
the lamp has 12v on once side of the lamp and the ecu grounds the other side and bingo, it glows.
i have a good schematic for this.

weak spark can just be a low battery, the starter overloads a weak battery and spark is weak. charging the Bat. to 12.6v (room temp spec) will solve that. this is not HEI , not like new car,
is medium power ignition, good for .028" gap spark never or .050" like new cars.

i wish i knew for sure what engine you have.?

ill guess as 8v TBI 8v and show a drawing.
see the 12v on top the ecu ground the CEL, the ECU grounds this lamp at pin B13 (this is the simplified drawing only for 8v, ) Suz calls the B13 and GEO /GM A13 (a silly GM trick)
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/8v-tbi-schematic91to95.jpg

now details. (all seen on my schematics page)
the ecu pin
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ecu-8v-sig-li...olts1w.jpg

the cluster wiring. see page one here, this is exactly what you have every detail.
http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/95%20...racker.pdf


one of the ways that the eCU tells you, that it is sick , is NO CEL ! or stuck on all the time.
CEL glowing key on, means the ECU did its self checks and its happy, so far.......

to test the lamp is easy.
unplug the ECU connectors, and ground the Violet-yellow wire is , CEL. (violet body with yellow stripe)
the connector with the large pins is power and is green and the CEL wires to pin 13 on this connector. GM A13
here is the actual FSM page showing how to test this CEL pin..
its clear.
Keep in mind GM calls this A13 and Suzuki B13 , and the wire color is the #1 clue. If i only know what engine you have or the VIN?? all this gets easy.

[brandonb]

Thank you for all of this information. I have throttle body injection 8 valve TBI engine. I made the mistake of thinking that the ECM output a positive voltage to the CEL wen in fact you have confirmed that it's output is actually to GROUND. The battery and seatbelt lamps are on, so I know the panel is getting good +12V, so I will ground this pin tonight when I get off work. I took the battery out last night and hooked it up to a smart charger to give it a good charge. I will return the results later tonight, I really appreciate your help. I hope the ecu is capable of outputting codes so we can get this thing running to go.

Thank you so much for your detailed and informative help.

[fixkick]

you're welcome
the ecu pin A13, (GM name) is like a switch (at transistor) imagine its a simple switch,
the switch closes the CEL glow. the switch closes to ground. (the transistor is what we call open collector configuration)
great an 8v most 2door are, but some are not,

Im curious, under hood , is there are white sticker still showing vacuum line routing?
if yes, it will have the words federal only or the words california there.
here is one that is calif. if its federal tracker it only stage US.EPA only.
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/h...age_7.html

the federal tracker has a nag switch that will make the CEL glow too. The mileage nag switch, never on calif. and never on canada (true) or other countries.

[brandonb]

This is as you believe a federal car, as indicated by the hood sticker and the ECM saying "FED". I was familiar with this switch (due to fixkick) and did try turning it on and off with no change in MIL lamp. I mistakenly thought the wire going from ECM to bulb was +12v beforehand...I measured an impedence of roughly 26 ohms between chassis ground and pin A13 on the ecu with the key switch on, this to me means the MIL should be lit? Either way, I now believe from your help and my collections that the MIL is either disconnected or has gone bad. I did not get a chance to go tonight to work before it got dark, but I will go tomorrow with a fresh battery and new battery terminals to check the A13 to ground tomorrow. I hope MIL is bad or disconnected so this guy will tell me what is wrong.

[fixkick]

you can not use ohms (DMM resistance) with a live circuit. any voltage present will cause any ohm meter to go quite nuts.

and key off the power feed, is open so you will read nothing, but leakages.
you could measure ohms key off from the a13 pin VIO-yell. to the fuse marked IG coil, this is the black-white wire there,, and will read zero ohms because the filament is a dead short and low voltage power inside the ohm meter.
the fsm way works best because it makes the lamp glow.
using and ohm meter test is not 100% accurate, with a double failure, say lamp is out and there is short to ground on that wire. but I'd bet not. but.

yes, if the fed mileage nag switch is still in place and wired, it must glow the CEL in one of the 2 positions. this too is a good test of the lamp.
i remove all nag switches, i see... and other do to, so this is not a reliable method to check the CEL.

here is the CEL in ASCII art?
12v >>>>> xxxxxxxlamp>>>>> ECU >>>> transistor>>>> ground. (if anything breaks this serial path of conduction the lamp is dead.
Usually if the caps in the ECU are good, the top right portion works perfectly.

this is the path for the light. the lamp is a top failure, as it only lasts 700 hours. some folks drive with it on (code 51) and it about 1 year on average.

[fixkick]

94 TBI 8v Tracker , no start. (what tranny?)
expediency.? The CEL is important be we can work the ECU backwards, here is how: This is the fast track way, no pun.

1. if the engine is good, has great compression? at 150PSI, many are not, the belt or keys have slipped , ever set the crank bolt to 94psi yet,? per the factory TSB?
   
2. and a timing light shows good spark to the #1 near 8 degrees BTDC? (yes the light works cranking too. 8 degr. is to the left on 0 on the scale, if off, the belt slipped. or others reasons.
   
3. if all that works, then test fuel works , and for sure if dry test below fails.... does it run on test fuel?
   
   
4. you can also lift the top of the TB air horn and look down there, and see the single injector , inject while cranking.? does it inject?
   
5. if there are no injections , the ECU may be stopping this or there is no fuel pressure, 3 or 4 more tests. but the test fuel , test of a day engine, is a great test
   

U TUBE?
see Scotty do that here.
see him do the spark test and test fuel test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...sz8Fzg#t=1

btw , if the ecu is not injecting here are the reasons. DTC are the flashing CEL codes... Morse code like. this is why the CEL must work !
1: DTC code 41 spark failure. real or ECU cant see it ! if the tachometer is dead, so can this be dead.
2: DTC code 42 CMP failure.
3: TPS stuck at wide open throttle "WOT" error, (bad ground to TPS causes that easy
If above is OK, then the NOID light test passes, if true, then below is bad.

4: no fuel pressure. 30PSI is normal , regardless of pump buzz,etc. ( sure the fuel filter is good... if packed the pressure rises, at rear test port.)
5: a clogged injector.(good NOID, good pressure 30psi, is the coil in the injector open , that is, no longer 1 ohm?)
6:

[fixkick]

the actual lamp is GE#18 a very low powered lamp to protect ECU. in fact its the only lamp in car that is....#18

this one is 5000 hr rated, nice. can last up to 7 years. stuck ON.
http://www.bulbtown.com/18_MINIATURE_BUL...E_p/18.htm