No CEL light, no fuel pumping

[rcx348]

1997 MPFI 16V Vitara, UK model.

Normally when I turn on the ignition I can hear the fuel pumping up to pressure. Now I can't. Also I notice that the CEL light does not come on. The charge, park, and brake lights come on as normal, engine cranks, but doesn't start.

I've put 12v to the fuel pump and it pumps. The fuel pump relay only gets 5v from the ECU.

I swapped out the ECU, no change.

I then used a Rhinopower SDL interface to connect to the ECU via OBD II, but it won't connect (it connected last week).

The problem ocurred after I tweaked my fuel lines (replaced with rubber). Car was working. Then I removed the tank, removed the fuel pump, replaced a bit of fuel line, replaced pump, replaced tank. Also recently I swapped out the ECU and immobiliser.

It seems to me that the ECU is not responding, hence no CEL light, and the pump replay is powered by the ECU. Also explains why no SDL link. Bad connection to ECU? ECU not powering up?

What do we think?

[fixkick]

Ok , welcome.
97 16v MPI (are you sure its OBD2 and not ALDA OBD1, (has codes like P0400 or P0300 ?) or 2 digit codes.?
the 3 second pump can be hard to hear, but IMMO cuts it out.

now CEL dead, that means the ECU is dead. (lamp good)
do not hot wire the green fuel pump relay, one 1/8" (3mm) slip and the ECU blows up on that pin. very very risky, if you unplug pump conn.. at left rear tail light housing that is safe.test.
the IMMO option on this car if fitted in factory cuts the fuel pump relay via IMMO to ECU command.

you have no power to the ECU if the rhino don't talk or if the rhino use the DLC power pin the dome fuse is blown

you are correct.
first measure the ECU power pins,
we dont have the immo here, so pins are probablly different.

the cel lamp does a funny dance when the IMMO is Unhappy.
but the lamp is dead so , no dance to see.
the scan tool also shows IMMO errors , in 1995 its 2 digit, 8x errors
the fuses are first
DOME
IG-COIL
and FI. the usa car they moved this fuse to the Right finder box. (see same on Russian version 96)
I also dont know how the IMMO box wakes up the ECU. (serial line sure but how does power work?)

the main relay blue-black wires must be 12v or the ECU will dead.
and main feeds power to pump relay
the IMMO kills main, which kills pump relay
so main is first after CEL glows
once the CEL glows, it must not flash keyon or the IMMO UPSET.

im sure the ecu has no power, all things point there.
i do not have an IMMO schematic with ECU.

but the blue-blk wires at ECU on all G16 are power to ECU,

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im sure the ECU has no power.
too
but not sure why, maybe IMMO fuses? (make sure dome fuse is ok, as that may do this wake idea i have)

[rcx348]

Thanks, Kickfix. Maybe you remember me from last time, I have a 1995 chassis/body fitted with 1997 everything (engine, drivetrain, electrics). It was a combination of a rust free 1995 body with a low mileage but battered 1997. I kept the 1995 dashboard which is much better.

Tonight I will check fuses with multimeter (visual check done yesterday) and check power to the ECU. I will test the dashboard CEL light also by putting 12v to the CEL pin with ECU removed.

What is the FI fuse? I've seen it, I don't know what the acronym means though.

I suspect that when I changed the ECU maybe I shouldn't pull on the connectors..

---

I don't know if it's OBD II, I just assumed it was because it has an OBD II connector. I don't know these protocols, I thought from 1997 all UK cars had to have some sort of standardised port, but I don't know. I use the Rhinopower SDL interface and Rhinoview software, or just jump the pins and read the flashing codes.

Also, EDIT, I wasn't fitting rubber hoses, I was eliminating the rubber by connecting my new nylon hoses direct to the fuel tank via 1/4" x 6mm compression fittings.

[fixkick]

yes, the non usa car the fuses have numbers on the schematic,
some are #1 on the fender top but , the 95 body is different.
only you know this. (custom car)
FI is fuel injection. all suzuki here have that and a fuse named that.
ive never seen any non usa fuse box.

see my schematic page.
95
see FI , top right corner
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/92-95MPI-eng-...e-huge.png

now the russian G16b
page 10 ,
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/1996/Full96%2...-power.pdf

FUSE 1 or 7? but is now on box 1 fender. just like ours are starting in 1997 , FI was moved , the lid may have FI , in Russian, LOL>?
IF , FI (FI fuse) blows, the MAIN does dead, if main goes dead, CEL and ECU both are dead.

id bet MAIN is dead. (never closes)

the 16pin connector is only a connector, its not owned by OBD2, at all , not invented by USA (EPA,COngress , or SAE.org)
the only used one. for fun. and vast confusion.....
are your DTCs 2 digit or 5 digit, 5 = OBD2 or EOBD.
2 digit is OBD1, (or better its just old suzuki, no custom and secret end to end) there is no standards for OBD1.

---

im dumb on IMMO, lacking them here.
all i've heard is the IMMO sends a serial message to the ECU. ( and rumor has it the CEL flashes for IMMO unhappy,)
the ECU accepts this and closes MAIN.
how it doest that inside, ive no clue. (logic sure)

and that many MAIN relay transistor blow , when folks hot wire pump relays.
seen that and fixed there. on ours. (blows a diode here, and main dies)
on the IMMO im told its a transistor there, (IMMO logic behind it)
or the ECU cuts the fuel pump relay, wish i knew for sure.... but it dont matter, if IMMO is unhappy what ECU does. its IMMO that needs to be addressed.

[rcx348]

Rhinopower told me that the Texac 4C chip in the key is programmed to the immo, and the immo to the ECU. There's an antenna from the immo to the key barrel. If the immo can't detect a chip then the CEL light flashes when the ignition is switched on. I know this because I've tried a blank key with no chip.

Today I only got a bit of time to diagnose:

The Black/red wire at the main relay has 14v constant.
The main relay turns on when the ignition is switched on delivering 14v to the Blue/black wire.
But only 9v is being delivered to the fuel pump relay Blue/black wire and the fuel pump relay does not click.

That's all I have so far.

[fixkick]

that is correct, they are married, just like all cars new today, (only now they use magic rolling serial encrypted codes) !
good, i thought the CEL flashed, (unlike new cars with a KEY with red bar. warning lamp, security fail IMMO)

ok there you, 5min meter work and bam a voltage drop fail. way to go.
Black/red is FI power to the MAIN relay so FI is good.
So main Blue-black is hot. but do do the 2 pins same color in ECU have 12v, i bet not, the ECU has no power, even though main is hot, (bad wiring)
same with Fuel pump relay, what if 9v is the ECU power, the ECU will not run on 9v. (the internal reg, drops dead inside, goes to sleep not really dead)

your blue-black wiring is NO GOOD.
you found it.
i have no idea how you melded 95 to 97 wiring but im betting that is the cause. the melding? mixing? its not easy to get all this right... takes good connections
and ones that last.


here is my 97 (pins on 97 in usa changed radically for installing TCM in side the ECU ,making it a PCM)
but you can see the blue black wires there. C34 pins 12 and 13 are power. i bet is now 9v. hopeless that...

let me look at my 97 drawings, may be yours is like our 97 but has extra pins used for IMMO, a wild guess. but possible

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI1.jpg (called left on my schematics page , note the cribbing marks)

our 1997
more complex
has 3 new connectors
one is called ED172 and pin 16 is blue black.

ill put a link to ours. 97 schematic, it might help you. (you need to buy a European FSM book) for better drawings..

in 1hr.

[rcx348]

Oh god, all it was the engine wasn't earthed! I'd forgotten to attach the earth when I connected my new fuel pipe at the engine.

[fixkick]

97/98 USA now with TCM (embedded)
http://www.fixkick.com/look/24hr/full-ecu.pdf


this may help
or 96 east European, in 2nd post

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http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/1996/Full96%2...-power.pdf

97/98 now with TCM (embedded)

this may help or russian version above

my ECU pages even shows which transistor blow up.
Q106 blows when you hot wire fuel pump relays, yes, replaced many. for this.

all outputs on these ecu , never ever hot wire them and ECU will live.