Sidekick 4speed Automatic 03-72LE // Venting ATF // Capacity Question

[allan y]

I just purchased a 1994 Suzuki Sidekick 4door with 4speed Automatic 03-72LE. The transition vented ATF on second Freeway run at 65MPH up good grade toward the end of 30 mile commute. It worked fine on the way to work down the hill. I was working it fairly hard testing things out but not to the extreme were something should break. To me this is telling me the transition is probably over serviced. The fluid expanded and vented.

I was already planning on doing a trany filter with drain and fill since I just purchased and it shifted hard from 1st to 2nd.

I drained approximately 4 1/2 quarts out doing the filter. some drained out of plug and another bit once I pulled the filter. Add that to what I lost on the freeway and I would guess that about 5 quarts.

All the specs say with filter and drain I should be looking at adding 2.5L (2.64qt)

I added 2.5qt started the engine and checked. It did not even register on the dip stick. I added another 1/2 for a total of 3qt. Still will not register on the dipstick. I heated the trany until the pan was at least 175`F. Checked the fluid. It registers but still about 1/4 inch under the cold full line.

I was thinking since the dip stick tube is 2 pieces maybe they were not seating together correctly holding the dip stick to high. I removed the tube. It looked like the part were the tube goes into the oil pan might have been bent down just a bit. I adjusted it up slightly and verified correct mating with the top half and reinstalled.

Checked the fluid cold not running and it shows the level at cold Full but once I start it it drops below the dipstick. It is my understanding it should be checked warm with running engine in Park.

My thought is that 4 1/2qt to 5qt was to much causing my venting and not sure the 3qts I installed is enough. I am confused since 2.5L is the recommendation.

I'm Looking for your opinions and suggestions.
Thanks

[fixkick]

Hello. and welcome!
sounds like an overfilled trans. by over 200% !!!!!!
the page you used is the overhaul spec. not the page 25 spec. in FSM.(drain and fill)

the P/S switch near the stick, sets shift hardness. (power or economy) its causes last shifting for power.(speed)

2 piece tube. the bottom is welded to pan. the top fits with 0-ring to the bottom flared tube,it only needs to seated in the bottom flare, 100% to work right.
what if the dipper is wrong.?

the wrong page to read is here, this is overhaul. page., not drain and fill.
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/95-fluid-capacities.jpg


the book is here, page 7A-24-26, 4speed (add 1.6 qt for 3sp and 4sp, both step C)

http://www.acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v1-7A-pdf.htm

see page 7A-26 step 7C. add 1.6quarts. (not 5) using the largest Dexron number , as mark III is no longer made, and the newer is far better. (off shelf Mark VI)

steps A to K cover all 4 speeds made for 10 years, up to 1998.
good luck !!!

---

if wrong now, and is.
only the factory way works.

in 1 photo.

[fixkick]

lots of ways are here
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/tune-u...#Automatic.

the quasi full flush, way, is here too.
Gentle.

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what drains out is random
based on wear, of parts. , ATF brand, age and condition, and how hot the fluid is. 72F or -20F.?
that is why I measure it, to save time.
many times if you measure it and put it back same amount, the levels are now perfect. (correct to start)
saving all futzing about, check, adding , check, adding at the end.
the tranny is sponge, there is no drained amount, spec, zero spec. there is no such thing.

it's a WYSIWYG, what you see is what you got.

[allan y]

lots of ways are here
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/tune-u...#Automatic.

the quasi full flush, way, is here too.
Gentle.

---

what drains out is random
based on wear, of parts. , ATF brand, age and condition, and how hot the fluid is. 72F or -20F.?
that is why I measure it, to save time.
many times if you measure it and put it back same amount, the levels are now perfect. (correct to start)
saving all futzing about, check, adding , check, adding at the end.
the tranny is sponge, there is no drained amount, spec, zero spec. there is no such thing.

it's a WYSIWYG, what you see is what you got.

Thanks for the response.

It was venting from the air vent hose. Top front of trany below engine distributer.

The dip stick I have looks like the one in the owners manual as fare as the marking.

Does any one have a measurement of the correct dipstick from were it seated at the top of dipstick tube to hot full and hot low lines so I can varify mine is or is not correct.

Does any one know how high the level should be from the bottom of the pan? A masurment would be good.

So from the document you posted I take it if I drain from drain plug and add 1.6qt I should be in the good rang?

---

[fixkick]

that is vary hard to find out. (rare car )
no. that is not the procedure at all.

since the maker of the trans has no idea at all how much drains out. (the do try to guess sure)
what they did is under estimate the amount to put in, (so the poor person never has to drain out the over fill see?)
so 1.6qt is that, under filled on purpose page 26, (says dont drive clearly in the FSM)
then you add fluid until it checks right , hot in park (using the steps in the opr guide)

this is how it is done, on all A/T, same why, only the amount changes .
im sure your dip stick is ok. (it's not same as 3sp for sure)

fill it with 1.6qt, then top off per the operators guide, if trans oil does NOT foam up, leak or shoot out vents. then its ok. and shifts ok.
if not , time to buy a new dip rod.

i see your posts on other forums and the wrong answers they gave you,

here are the numbers. pre all pages if the book.

1.6qt, fill, then top off to get correct amount. (this covered on page 26 in the link above)
2.64 qt, is the maximum that MIGHT drain out, if waited for a week on a hot day, ? (pure theory this, and us USELESS data)!
7.3 qt , if 100% dry transmission and clutch were assembled.. (again useless top DIY drains)


now you have the FULL SPEC, ON ALL ACTIONS TAKEN ON ANY 4SP.

I'm, sorry i don't have dip stick measurements. and would be very hard to get. unless you can find a friendly 4sp owner.

my wifes 4sp drains about 2 qrts in say 5min , plug pulled, i measured it. and when i put back that same amount , all checks showed
on the stick were perfect.
but the stick on her car is stock. lock box stock.

[allan y]

Thanks for the info. I'm think I'll fill to current dip stick level and test drive again see if I still get the ATF venting issue.

[fixkick]

it will i bet.
the 7.3 quarts, is not ever to be considered, unless doing a full overhaul.
the 1.6QT is the only number to use.
the add tad more to get the hot levels right.

[allan y]

it will i bet.
the 7.3 quarts, is not ever to be considered, unless doing a full overhaul.
the 1.6QT is the only number to use.
the add tad more to get the hot levels right.

Well I put about 3.75 qts and it is reading in the correct rang with trany pan temp at 170 degrees(according to laser temp gun). I will drive it latter today and let you know how it goes.

[fixkick]

all that matters is the hot level.
there is no other way to set levels, just that stick.

[allan y]

So i took it on the same test drive today. It did not vent ATF this time. At the top of the hill the trany temp pan temp was about 192 degrees(according to the laser temp gun). The level was a bit above the full when hot. I think I will remove a bit a fluid on the next drain fill that I will be doing in about a week to be safe. Does any one have thoughts on normal operation temps? I was thinking I might need to add a 2nd trany cooler to the system but am not sure. If memory serves I don't thing my ford excursion even gets that hot towing a 10k pound trailer. let me know your thought.
Thanks,
Allan Y.