When does the distributor need replacement?

[Samistine]

I have 300,000 miles on my 96 tracker. I have rough, maybe misfire under certain conditions. In Park I can get it to be rough between 2300-3000 rpm. If I disconnect the o2 Sensor it runs beautifully. With 02 plugged in I have negative average term fuel trim from 4-8% through different loads. I can comfortably do 75 mph at 23-25 mpg according to scan gauge. I’ve done 27mpg on one trip. Engine compression is 170, 170, 190, 190.

The more concerning thing is feeling a minor buckling sensation when on the highway Performance Timing Key, it goes away if I shift into neutral and coast. It’s not bad but just odd. 

Exhaust always smells awful and makes me sick if I smell it too long. I get a few drops of water with black carbon out the back on initial startup, stains my driveway. Also an initial puff of white smoke if I let it sit for more than 7-10 days. I forgot to replace the valve seals when rebuilding the head.

Maintenance done:
- radiator and head shaved, replaced unrepairable valves (15k miles ago)
 - New spark plugs and wires
 - new rotor cap
- new fuel injectors
- new bosh o2 sensors
 - timing belt and crank bolt
 - valve timing (15k miles ago)
 - checked cat converter, seems dead, however no blockage in the honeycomb and light came through all of it. 
 - new EGR valve (because why not)
 - I do get occasional egr 0400 code, but does seem to work normally according to tests on your page. The passages were cleaned 15k miles ago but code has been occasionally setting since then and before.
 - oil Pan gasket (I know not supposed to have one, but I have no codes from that unless I unplug the sensor lol)
 - new used transmission, transfer case, front axle, front differential.

At 300,000 miles would replacing the distributor be worthwhile?

[fixkick]

SamistineI have 300,000 miles on my 96 tracker. I have rough, maybe misfire under certain conditions. In Park I can get it to be rough between 2300-3000 rpm. If I disconnect the o2 Sensor it runs beautifully. With 02 plugged in I have negative average term fuel trim from 4-8% through different loads. I can comfortably do 75 mph at 23-25 mpg according to scan gauge. I’ve done 27mpg on one trip. Engine compression is 170, 170, 190, 190.

The more concerning thing is feeling a minor buckling sensation when on the highway Performance Timing Key, it goes away if I shift into neutral and coast. It’s not bad but just odd. 

Exhaust always smells awful and makes me sick if I smell it too long. I get a few drops of water with black carbon out the back on initial startup, stains my driveway. Also an initial puff of white smoke if I let it sit for more than 7-10 days. I forgot to replace the valve seals when rebuilding the head.

Maintenance done:
- radiator and head shaved, replaced unrepairable valves (15k miles ago)
 - New spark plugs and wires
 - new rotor cap
- new fuel injectors
- new bosh o2 sensors
 - timing belt and crank bolt
 - valve timing (15k miles ago)
 - checked cat converter, seems dead, however no blockage in the honeycomb and light came through all of it. 
 - new EGR valve (because why not)
 - I do get occasional egr 0400 code, but does seem to work normally according to tests on your page. The passages were cleaned 15k miles ago but code has been occasionally setting since then and before.
 - oil Pan gasket (I know not supposed to have one, but I have no codes from that unless I unplug the sensor lol)
 - new used transmission, transfer case, front axle, front differential.

At 300,000 miles would replacing the distributor be worthwhile?
DTC's
drive it and log DTC errors and also check pending DTCs,  no why can it buck and not set say P0300 or P03xx  
the high pan gasket makes the CKP crank sensor sit that much too high,   and can fail (or misfire),  but only on  some brands of sensors , try the SMP brand claimed to be more sensitive.
that stink is just nasty CO,  the EGR erases only 1/2 the CO and the cat eats the rest.  so stinks, all normal as is water drips from exh, burned fuell makes H2O as by product of combustion)
the 400 has tests P0400A an B,  one is stuck open test other is stuck closed 1996 and up, and can be random and the tests are at fast driving then fast and coast.

so at cruise, say 45mph  it bucks or misfires or just surges,  ?  explain more about  this,  what is felt.

the cat bad is P0421,  I bet your scan too is not seeing all DTCs hidding them for sure pendings.
420 is dead cat, and only sets after all SMOG monitors complete, only then can i t set and only if front sensor passes its tests tool for the full monitors clearing out.

many DTCS do not set (failing) until driven 3 times.  (each page  1996, chapters on DTC shows this rule for each DTC error.)

this car haves stock exhaust manifold?  and with that , #4 tube not cracked making the top 02 sensor there GO nuts and or RANDOM fail.
shields off to see it.  and can fail only as the manifold is at a certain temperature as the crack expands from thermal effects. (iron and heat and thermal expansion effects)

here is the monitors,  this is failing to complete and until is complete the DTC many be hidden.




surge or misfire? if not misfire,  (no bad spark coil)

causes are fuel pressure wrong , FPR are failing this old now.   and fuel pressure is wild, not at linear rising rates from idle to WOT.  takes fuel pressure gauge to find it or see fuel drip from FPR vacuum nipple.
or TPS bad,  if a TPS is marginal (intermittent) it tells the ECU you are accelerating at steady cruise and will cause surge. (not misfire)
TPS bad too can cause throttle tip-in hesitation, and is lean out caused,  TPS is the #1 sensor for enrich mode to accelerate, so goes lean then power catches up (MAF delays) felt as bog or lack of power only for say 3 seconds or less.

I think we need to know when it acts bad exactly and what the right foot is doing and speed. and on flat ground or hills when it happens (it is misfire or surge) surge is fuel mix related, misfire is spark or hugely rich. mix.
and do not ignore OBD2 pending codes. always look , even drive and log data and watch for any sensors acting strange.

good luck on finding this bug.
fix

[fixkick]

some info here on 1996 up , lots of examples on this car, I made, mine ran perfect after lots of work.

https://fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_Full...l#monitors

[fixkick]

the CKP sensor failing or marginal, makes MISFIRE P0300 to 304 , impossible to work they added this new sensor just to misfire can be discovered and told via DTC. and pass the monitor.

[fixkick]

on this car year, the 2 first checks , day 1 to home.

is huge crankbolt at 94ft/lbs set to TSB spec
and shields off of exh man.
see #4 tube ( this loves to fail,  )
and last, cheap china commie crap (C4 a poster here invent this name)  MAF sensors,  that are totally hopeless junk even at $15,  useless. if the suzuki P/N is on the sensors it is not C4.
13800-58B00 ( real suzuki maf p/n)  2nd best is CARDONE, rebullt and uses if good still.  this is like the heart of the engine (ECU +_MAF)

[fixkick]

just to show odd things happen. (random)
my 96 had an  induction air leak , the top rear huge aluminum air pipe (maf to TB) had a rear left (right facing it) mount snapped off, it as just dangling on the head mount it fits to.
this was sucking air like mad causes MAF to read wrong, causes what is called UN METERED AIR. (and power loss and surge as engine shacks and crack size varied, yah nuts.)
wild effects it caused,
so finding problems can be very hard.\

OXYGEN (B1S1) Front)
o2 (front) pulled forces righter mix, fuel. and runs better , so that big  hint says engine fueling is (was) lean.
ever run the 02 sensor in the full O2 meter mode, plotted, and drive. like below.



this happens hot idle or light flat cruising at 45mph or near.

the front 02 swings, that swing is a loop, (firmware ECU ) that adjust fuel mix 6 times a second about. the ECU hugs for perfect fuel mix this fast,  see it below.
note the center point too, not offset. it swings near 0.45vdc. center point, O2 goes off line WOT normal, so only do idle and easy steady cruise , right foot steady./


and exhaust manifold crack or gasketi bad sucking ear wrecks the front 02 horrible. or just enough,  air is 20% O2 so slams the sensor to death 20 times to much 02.
the bottom header end DONUT  ring gasket bad, or loose or clamp bad too , same thing. bad.

any good scan too can plot any sensors an for sure 02. and do and X/Y plot. live in real time (near enough)

[Samistine]

just to show odd things happen. (random)
my 96 had an  induction air leak , the top rear huge aluminum air pipe (maf to TB) had a rear left (right facing it) mount snapped off, it as just dangling on the head mount it fits to.
this was sucking air like mad causes MAF to read wrong, causes what is called UN METERED AIR. (and power loss and surge as engine shacks and crack size varied, yah nuts.)
wild effects it caused,
so finding problems can be very hard.\

OXYGEN (B1S1) Front)
o2 (front) pulled forces righter mix, fuel. and runs better , so that big  hint says engine fueling is (was) lean.
ever run the 02 sensor in the full O2 meter mode, plotted, and drive. like below.



this happens hot idle or light flat cruising at 45mph or near.

the front 02 swings, that swing is a loop, (firmware ECU ) that adjust fuel mix 6 times a second about. the ECU hugs for perfect fuel mix this fast,  see it below.
note the center point too, not offset. it swings near 0.45vdc. center point, O2 goes off line WOT normal, so only do idle and easy steady cruise , right foot steady./


and exhaust manifold crack or gasketi bad sucking ear wrecks the front 02 horrible. or just enough,  air is 20% O2 so slams the sensor to death 20 times to much 02.
the bottom header end DONUT  ring gasket bad, or loose or clamp bad too , same thing. bad.

any good scan too can plot any sensors an for sure 02. and do and X/Y plot. live in real time (near enough)

Unfortunately the tracker computer does not seem like it wants to set codes or even put things in pending. I can unplug a spark plug briefly and no pending codes get set unless I leave it disconnected for a few seconds like >5. Unplugging the OBD sensor took several minutes to set a code and turn on the check engine light. I use a portable engine monitor and a wifi obd adapter to phone and neither sees any pending codes.
Misfire/or whatever it is maybe every 2-3 seconds. I can hear it and feel it by putting my hand on the engine during fast idle. Engine stays still visually. I will try doing some type of logging using the OBD phone app.
I have an entire tracker for spare parts at the moment so I could try swapping things and seeing what it is.
i did. check fuel pressure last year and it passed the tests you put on your website.

[fixkick]

just to show odd things happen. (random)
my 96 had an  induction air leak , the top rear huge aluminum air pipe (maf to TB) had a rear left (right facing it) mount snapped off, it as just dangling on the head mount it fits to.
this was sucking air like mad causes MAF to read wrong, causes what is called UN METERED AIR. (and power loss and surge as engine shacks and crack size varied, yah nuts.)
wild effects it caused,
so finding problems can be very hard.\

OXYGEN (B1S1) Front)
o2 (front) pulled forces righter mix, fuel. and runs better , so that big  hint says engine fueling is (was) lean.
ever run the 02 sensor in the full O2 meter mode, plotted, and drive. like below.



this happens hot idle or light flat cruising at 45mph or near.

the front 02 swings, that swing is a loop, (firmware ECU ) that adjust fuel mix 6 times a second about. the ECU hugs for perfect fuel mix this fast,  see it below.
note the center point too, not offset. it swings near 0.45vdc. center point, O2 goes off line WOT normal, so only do idle and easy steady cruise , right foot steady./


and exhaust manifold crack or gasketi bad sucking ear wrecks the front 02 horrible. or just enough,  air is 20% O2 so slams the sensor to death 20 times to much 02.
the bottom header end DONUT  ring gasket bad, or loose or clamp bad too , same thing. bad.

any good scan too can plot any sensors an for sure 02. and do and X/Y plot. live in real time (near enough)

Unfortunately the tracker computer does not seem like it wants to set codes or even put things in pending.
I can unplug a spark plug briefly and no pending codes get set unless I leave it disconnected for a few seconds like >5.
spark plug  #1 shows P0301 if pulled. ?
The engine needs to be warm, not dead cold. and 5 seconds is not a long time. (the ECU busy doing  all spark and all 4 injectors , so Dtc can roll out sllow )

Unplugging the OBD sensor took several minutes to set a code and turn on the check engine light. I use a portable engine monitor and a wifi obd adapter to phone and neither sees any pending codes.

Misfire/or whatever it is maybe every 2-3 seconds. I can hear it and feel it by putting my hand on the engine during fast idle. Engine stays still visually. I will try doing some type of logging using the OBD phone app.
I have an entire tracker for spare parts at the moment so I could try swapping things and seeing what it is. (spare parts GREAT)
i did. check fuel pressure last year and it passed the tests you put on your website.

odd that is,,  does the car have a  good working dome fuse , this  fuse powers the ECU DTC memory,bank inside,  if fuse blows the ECU can not store DTC  errors at all.
a real scan tool can do pendings, some cheap ones  are just cheap code readers.
a scan tool real  can do all that and plot live sensor data.
 

the 4 chapters  on topic , FSM factory service manual are (but the maker lost these (no me ,him)  these cover fully how all DTC test are done and rules for easy, for sure driving cycle rules.
Volume 2, Section 6e3-A Part 1    Fuel Injection VIN 6
Volume 2, Section 6e3-A Part 2    Fuel Injection VIN 6
Volume 2, Section 6e3-A Part 3    Fuel Injection VIN 6
Volume 2, Section 6e3-A Part 4    Fuel Injection VIN 6


part 3 covers misfire.   (hidden here) page 11 part 3

  https://web.archive.org/web/20101119080203/http://acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v2-6E3-A-part3-pdf.htm


case in point fuel tank must  be greater than 15% or P0300 or these monitors are dead (off line) not sure why but is.  my guess is the pump sucks are and causes false DTC P0300
a steady throttle or idle, NOT accelerating

a good scan tool can see pendings and also freeze frame, if a DTC sets and clears fast,  (say CKP sensor is flakey) the freeze frames shows it DID and conditions at failure. (RPM etc)

is your gas tank near empty?

same page 11 says,  DTC will not show up until 5 seconds from engine startup
and P030x  errors DTC as they set, make the CEL blink like mad,  the blinking means CAT damage is happening soon. (over heated cat) from super rich fueling (no spark X)

is #4 exhuast header tube cracked? making 02 top (B1S1) go NUTS?  S1 is top,  S2 is behind cat.

the only way I know to test for DRIVE_ability  problem (misfiring , spark, for injection, or intermittent sensors) is to use scan tools that log any data you want.
not all problems can be found parked in a drive way some need driving to find them or up hills. flogged.
seeing DTC come and go, finds  a problem.
seeing sensors going dead driving.

all comments by me assume , fuel NOT bad, compression good.,  spark parts tuned up. injectors cleaned. 16v. fuel pressure is good at keyon, and it IDLE BOTH (16V rule !!!)
the scan for errors, scan for intermittent sensor (NO BLOWN or missing DOME FUSE !)
scan for hot 180f, engine DTC parked idle and gunning throttle, and driving.
Thermostat factory temp,180F and not 150f allowed, ever, up to 195F thermostat are sold and work great and is a valid temp in this case.



see what a real scan tool can do, for sensors scans.  the bottom blue is 02 S1 swings like mad (good) VSS is vehicle SPEED. I can watch 12 sensors or parameters at once. driving./parked
 

I can drive and log raw data too, to CVS fails for EXEL plots

this is my bad THERMOSTAT 1996 takes for ever to warm up. and lands on 160f, wrong that TOO !  and perfect MAF readings here, VSS is speed, TP is TPS throttle angle.
this is a 20 mile on road test, and spikes are me doing WOT (wide open throttle to see if MAF really does work) and does. (Excel graph data)


in a nut shelll
good engine good compression 180psi is good.  1996 Geo Tracker 1.6Liter 16valve. , pulls 183-185 PSI on all 4 cylinders. (warm )
good spark, mag wires work best on this weak spark system !
fuel pressure Static test:  1.6L KEYON-nostart ---Suz 35.6–42.7 psi     ( this is same as WOT at no/low vacuum present)
at idle is 6 psi less, must be,   so if above  is 36 (mine is) it drops to 30 PSI at idle. (19" of idle vacuum is that)
if the drop test fails the FPR IS TOASTED.(bad)
no exhaust crack near 02 top for sure #4 exh. man. tube not cracked as most are, from  limphome mode tortured.
FPR vac tube  not leaking fuel (drips) is bad.
DTC not set driving or parked,
pendings show none
CEL OUT DRIVING. ALL THE TIME OUT. AND NEVER FLASHING.

Surging while driving is EFI going lean and rich over and over (02 front is bad or being clobber with crack leaking air )



here is why folks do not understand why the exhaust is not just ONLY pressure
this is the PUTT effect,  see POINT B, this is how any exhaust crack newer the 02 ,top, will suck in 20% AIR (atmospheric air is that)
IF O2 top signals look wrong , find cracks.(near)







[url=https://fixkick.com/ECU/palmer/96M-log2w.jpg][/url]

[fixkick]

There are only  3 kinds of OBD2 scan tools (some good some bad) "sorry not testing all 1000" but ,,, can talk  all day on tools. sure.
If serious  on diagnosing engines, (etc) on cars the tool makes the man ! (pays for it self, RIO profits real)

1: dedicated hand tool but is really only a code reader, mostly useless, this. "just a code reader"
2: dedicated tool like this  , (real) and some do factory codes too,P1xx p2xx ETC.  (VAST CHOICES SOME GOOD SOME NOT)
3: usb OR WIFI DONGLE DEVICE TO PC OR PHONES.  BUT THE SOFTWARE FREE  SUCKS.  horrid in many cases, I use $100  app on laptop above, and nothing works better for less $

There are like 1000 scan tools now, not one new one have I seen , all mine are from  Innova or Scantool.net  and OBDwiz
I have Innvoa 3100 and 3600 (old) and blue-tooth and wifi scantool.net dongles. (prime grade these are)

I'd never own one that can not PID plot (X/Y) any sensor I want.  it has to do plots, for sure O2.
most tools consumer are sold with endless hype and zero facts, (best is RTM first read the manual to see if the thing can plot data or log it , both be super useful) they (scantool.net) even list all PID supported (nice)
[url=https://www.scantool.net/obdwiz/#Supported_PIDs][/url]
I HAVE 3 OF THEIR TOOLS INNOVA HERE, THESE ARE NEW i DO NOT HAVE NEW tools (5years old all)
SEE THE below MATRIX CHART, NOW THAT IS GOOD OF THEM !

see LIVE DATA STREAM FEATURE. also called (tech'like) PID code plotting and or LOGGING PID ( this is raw sensor data etc)


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR7...slink=true


the OBD2 scan port 16 pins, one pin is power 12vdc,  and the fuse is blown here, the scan tool will FAIL. (my OBD2 pages tell all  about that and where the fuse is)

last is our buddy Mr, Scotty.   see his OBD2 , plot 02 front.
" you get alot more information  with a plot"  PID data streaming plots.

https://youtu.be/mDit5YiBAGw?t=277


the 02 (B1S1) can fail  for many reasons besides, just melted wires. there.
1: heater dead. bad sensor.
2: the 02 Cell (oxy cell) is dead, from  age or poisoned using some nasty FUEL treatments,  (chevron techron is ok, as it is only Benzine CLASS)
3: exhaust cracks make it lie, but is not damage to the sensor, (lucky) fix crack end story.


scotty told my cheap tool blew up my car, (no blew up my ECU/PCM) yes,
those most cheap dongles use a CHINA clone of ELM chip (canada maker stolen !)  and has a cheap nasty 7805 voltage regulator in the dongle, see my ELM pages for why.
the answer is SCOTTY DID NOT LIE,  (noobs are funny lacking electronics facts) that regulator will blow up in any car made, it sure will. 
and then 14.7 volts hits the data ports from ELM to ECU /PCM and blows the input receivers in the ECU, (some cars have PP poor protections here, a FACT)

do not buy $20 tools, ever and then jack it in to your  ECU/PCM.  16pin OBD2 port.

ok here i is
read my READ words

https://fixkick.com/ELM327/ELM.html



do not use  china cloned crap in your car. for sure THIS CRAP.  (the real and true maker ELM is not bad or evil , just genius) facts!



here is proof of bad, seen here. 7805 never belongs on ANY CAR ON EARTH EVER. (yes I could design a fix here to protect this and all) but why would I fix CRAP.

this is from ebay china, the most cheap made, and never to be used on any car. " no name maker," I needs a real regulator for cars not kids toys, BOOM.



the bad event happens like this, 7805 blows up( in cars) and that puts 14.7VDC on to the other 2 chips and then they blow up, BOOM and in turn blows up, ECU, (via the seriAL TX pins out of the tool to ECU boom kiss off $500 ECU or more.

the reason is the goons in china never read the rules on cars for power surges on cars ever,
seen here

https://www.diodes.com/design/support/te...utomotive/

check out the NOISE spike cranking, boom kiss off 7805 (25v max input and boom smoke out time.) also bad is A/C clutch electromagnet DC load dump Back EMF spike (or weak battery not acting and great noise filter )car.

[fixkick]

Titled. as "when does a distributor need replacing", answered, finally
1: the coil inside is bad. 96+ is inside .
2: the shaft bearings are shot. (a bouncing CMP will be pure hell) misfire city, DTC errors for sure.
3: the cap changes out and rotor easy, , avoid china non name crap and win. if rotor fits 3 ways, it is CRAP !!! Try BOSCH or NGK or BECK or , well not crap.
4: the CMP dies, (rare)
5: the ignitor inside fails. (coil driver transistor is it)
6: DTC P03xx errors. high numbers are for distrib. (or crank CKP)


there is no vacuum advance here like Samurai. nor advancing fly weights inside to rust or jam up.
mostly is #1 only