Samurai TBI | No Injector Pulse

[d8nk]

Sorry I didn't realize this is tracker/sidekick only. Some of the stuff you post mentions 8v Samurai stuff. It is bone stock all original parts best I can tell. Yup the pic you posted is my ECU. Interesting about that resistor. I will look for it and see if I can find out more.

[fixkick]

injector load resistor block , i think (10 years remembering) is on the fire wall or from there to TB.
resistor coupler.
i do not remember for sure where it is but , my be for the injector

[fixkick]

injector load resistor block  , i think (10 years remembering) is on the fire wall or from there to TB.
resistor coupler.
i do not remember for sure where it is but , my be for the injector

no problem there , the sammi is welcome here and many things about it are near same both car  8v.
just a unique ECU and , fast idle speeds.
and maybe that hiding resistor, outside ECU)
the geo metro  uses 2.5ohm resistor block FI injector so is common on some suzuki. but I think it has 12 ohm injectors, not 1ohm on the metro.

The Metro injector resistor block is on the top right of the firewall, looks like a heat sink with a yellow clip attaching two white wires coming off of the resistor to a white wire with a blue stripe and a yellow wire.   
2.3 to 2.5 ohms was measured across the resistor , by one person.
If the resistor burns up, all injections stop.  Infinity readings, is bad in all cases. (due to no current flow)

if the ECU has wires on A20, this goes to some resistor .  gray/white(stripe)

usually the 12ohm injectors (HI Z) use a resistor. (so called peak and hold)
the 1 ohms  have no resistors and do not hold, they are PWM cooled, modulated to they can not overheat,  (like your 1991 does) aka,  Low Z injectors.

[d8nk]

Great, thx for welcoming a fellow Suzuki fan OK, found some new info. The ECU has a gry/white (A8) and gry/black (A20) wires. I followed them and found they go to a 2 pin connector near the fuse panel under steering wheel that has nothing plugged into it. I looked around to see if maybe something fell out of it but it does not appear so. I am guessing it is not used on mine. I could not find any other electrical part that had any grey wires going into it.

Tested resistance on the big white resistor and it was reading at .4 Ohms. A bit higher than .27 but it appears to not be fried.

I am still quite suspicious of these transistors on the ECU. You mentioned that you don't think Samurai uses them both? I have both of them on my ECU, with the same Q101 and Q102 markings and locations as the tracker ECU. I did end up ordering the new parts from where you suggested on another page (Match a Knob)

[fixkick]

Great, thx for welcoming a fellow Suzuki fan OK, found some new info. The ECU has a gry/white (A8) and gry/black (A20) wires. I followed them and found they go to a 2 pin connector near the fuse panel under steering wheel that has nothing plugged into it. I looked around to see if maybe something fell out of it but it does not appear so. I am guessing it is not used on mine. I could not find any other electrical part that had any grey wires going into it.

Tested resistance on the big white resistor and it was reading at .4 Ohms. A bit higher than .27 but it appears to not be fried.

I am still quite suspicious of these transistors on the ECU. You mentioned that you don't think Samurai uses them both? I have both of them on my ECU, with the same Q101 and Q102 markings and locations as the tracker ECU. I did end up ordering the new parts from where you suggested on another page (Match a Knob)

great progress,.
the EPC does not show at all any such external resistor at all.  nut sure what it does?

yes test the transistors.  both.
this car ran before right, not found dead, or bought dead.
usually the transistors do not go bad unless injector fails(shorts) or more common the wires to it short.
or on some cars injector dies, and owner shot wires the injector, to make it go.   lots died like this.

good luck to you,, the best test is bipolar transistor tester for gain (BETA)
use heat sink grease on the  back side of transistors fresh, same as used on computer CPU/'s
if you see mica gasket behind he transistor do no lose that , put it back as found.

that is about. it.

[fixkick]

Great, thx for welcoming a fellow Suzuki fan OK, found some new info. The ECU has a gry/white (A8) and gry/black (A20) wires. I followed them and found they go to a 2 pin connector near the fuse panel under steering wheel that has nothing plugged into it. I looked around to see if maybe something fell out of it but it does not appear so. I am guessing it is not used on mine. I could not find any other electrical part that had any grey wires going into it.

Tested resistance on the big white resistor and it was reading at .4 Ohms. A bit higher than .27 but it appears to not be fried.

I am still quite suspicious of these transistors on the ECU. You mentioned that you don't think Samurai uses them both? I have both of them on my ECU, with the same Q101 and Q102 markings and locations as the tracker ECU. I did end up ordering the new parts from where you suggested on another page (Match a Knob)

great progress,.  you can post any EFI gas car here, I can try to help on any car, EFI..

the EPC does not show at all any such external resistor at all.  nut sure what it does?

yes test the transistors.  both.
this car ran before right?, not found dead, or bought dead.? 

usually the transistors do not go bad unless injector fails(shorts) or more common the wires to it short.
or on some cars, the injector dies, and owner (gone wild) short wires at the injector to battery plus+, to make it go.   lots died like this.

good luck to you,, the best test is bipolar transistor tester for gain (BETA)
use heat sink grease on the  back side of transistors fresh, same as used on computer CPU/'s between heat sink and CPU. (or IGP)
if you see mica gasket behind he transistor do no lose that , put it back as found.



that is about. it.  a shorted transistor or open , can be found easy with DMM set TO Resistance and DIODE mode.
what that does is raise test voltage over 0.7vdc, most do 1.2v so the junctions can be forward BIOS> then the LCD shows the drop voltage.
0.7 is normal  0v shorted, and cracked inside junction will fail and show open circuit,.

here are they all are,  and very very rare, (90-95 ) series, SY413 is the name of car inside suzuki,  
here are all Samurai ecu codes USA<  my guess is you have 80C30

1.3Liter 8valve .   e3-usa fed.  e33 is calif.    only 3 kinds in USA,  outside usa 3 or more engines and vast ECU used.




what this does IDK.  my wild guess now,  a factory mode jumper test?   (on very old cars, (JDM) they had no, Oxygen sensor so tuned for low "CO" with resistors then, I think it is for that , if car is ordered new for NO smog zones. (no O2 sensors) aka. JDM cars (slicks I call them)





i think the manual for this car best is.

99501-83350-33E.pdf


samurai  supplement.

hard to find ECU, (sold used or refurb )

[fixkick]

.4 ohm is mostly lead jack resistance, short the leads see 0.2 ohms then test resistor see .4, 1/2 of that is meter leads errors.
in the old days we had RX1 and up range and R-1/10 range shows tenths of ohms. (and calib zero knob)

your resistor is ok.

[fixkick]

beta or hFE,
here is one cheap way to test things, I have one, and works great, and other more fancy.
one can make one with 2 resistors added. or 1 collector resistor say 100ohm to say 5vdc or to 9vdc battery. (Imax 90mA)
then a 25k pot wired to base and set base current until IC (collector current hits say 50ma) the measure IB base current;
hFe = IC / IB. (not dead accurate but plenty good for this job)
it is simple current gain (a crude amplifier it is)

some cheap DMM have 3 pin transistor jack on the front, many do, even $20 ones

the Pot above, 1k, is in series with 300 ohm (approx) resistor to IB can not go to infinity as you turn the pot nob to zero ohms.
the test is with any DMM set up as a ammeter.
to measure Ib and Ic.
see this,

https://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-...or-Tester/

I use POT for the 25K 510ohm to limit Ib current. and then measure hFE gain. (using my ammeter)

watch out some testers can not test correctly any SUPERBETA darlington transistors that your ECU uses. 4000 hFE. best is to make your own $1 test jig.

transistors can fail all these ways.
shorted or dead open even whole casing cracked.
leaking C to E. (not turned on as in nothing forward biased C to E leakings is too high. per spec.
or low hFE, these are the walking wounded, as we say, so they short later, it is a death rattle.
I love to check for all classes of good and fails, open/short/good/bad and hFI, and leakage.



at fleabay these are fun.
Digital All-in-1 Component Tester Transistor Diode Capacitor Inductor ESR Meter

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4...r&_sacat=0

[fixkick]

a bad power transistor, can have leakage and or weak hFe.
some testing does not find that unless done correctly
the 2SD1450  (yellow wire on ECU) low side.
this part is a  superbeta part, (darlington they are) with a huge hFE gain. 4000.  in fact it is 2 transistors in one package cascaded for gain huge.
ib at 2mA (.002) gets you at Ic.  8 amps.  (ic = 4000x.002)
so use huge large Ib resistor. 10000 ohms or pot that big.


Type Designation: 2SD1415

Material of Transistor: Silicon.

Polarity: NPN (not pointing in, as we say for 55years me)

Maximum Collector Power Dissipation (Pc): 30 Watts

Maximum Collector-Base Voltage |Vcb|: 100 V

Maximum Collector-Emitter Voltage |Vce|: 100 V

Maximum Emitter-Base Voltage |Veb|: 5 V

Maximum Collector Current |Ic max|: 7 A ( yes amps and is how it runs 1ohm injectors)

Max. Operating Junction Temperature (Tj): 150 °C

Forward Current Transfer Ratio (hFE), MIN: 4000  (aka gain) or beta.  Ic/iB gain, the transfer function.

[fixkick]

if you buy a new transistor learn this first.
the old originals have all plastic cases, front/back , not leads.(lol)
the newer ones have metal backs shorted to C pin and if you just slam it to the heat sink suzuki, C pin is NOW shorted to ground. (Injector goes made see why below)
in this case only,
use mica washers if you do that.
mica does not conduct electrons but does big time heat, thermal conductivity high.
also the transistor above has normal 5k (5000) ohm base leakage, per link above data sheet.
the beta hFE can hit 10000 (not a typo) at 1amp IC.  huge gain this puppy has, and is why it can wire to lower power logic and just work great.
as high as hFE 15,000....  (1amp IC with only  66 microamps (uA)on the base.  66.e-6)  a 137k resistor to 9v battery does that (R=E/I , 9v/66e-6.)
so is a tricky test (only these parts)  for sure not knowing  how darlingtons work. (that name is  for man how invented the idea)

these transistors never fail not abused.  some cars still running 37 years no fails at all (these transistors)
the ECU modulates the 2 pins, using PWM  , to keep all parts in  this chain cool,  (average power is small)   super effective this is.
It works using the magic in the injector that uses natural solenoid inside inertia.  (it wants to say open so we cut the voltage and it stays  open still, then hit again and again before this inertia ends inside. and runs way way cooler up to 20 chopper pulsed done in fact on one firing of 1 cylinder)
this how it works on some cars they have 12-15vdc peak and old injectors that need no cooling or tiny.

one more fact to know , (we think this way to wonder how it failed to begin with, not replacing parts blind ,but thinking)


if you put 12vdc across the injector using say a car battery, the injector coil burns up to a crisps in seconds. oops I let the smoke out of 1 injector.

how how hackers blow up injectors 101:
the modulation is on both ends of the injector Plus+ RED and yellow wire minus ! it is in fact timed and bipolar driven. 

this combined duty cycle uses both at the same time, so if you say use a ground wire (mr,hackers) (abad 1415) as many found, they add a ground wire to Yellow wire. (hacker cant afford $400 ECU or omg none exist like on Samurai. ouch)
now the injector goes nuts hacked, and over injects like mad.

folks that do that make diagnosing this error super hard if the hack is well hidden. (seen it done in hidden harnesses {looms})
only a scope finds this hack if not seen with eyes on all related wires and pins.

then modern Cars :
fast forward to 2020.  ECU/PCM/BCM,etc now have smart drivers that   MOS-FET  and self shut down if someone or something goes nuts.
over current and over heat projection. Yah  !

our ECUs has NO protection on any output (inputs yes) other than the natural wattage of the transistors or working PWM in effect.
hot wiring it NO. boom.

that is all I have on these 2 transistors,  and  I see no ECUs for sale on Samurai now.
due to that I did  a longer post, for  you or others that like to read long posts (none?)