1990 tracker

[kenwortht600]

Hi again thanks for all the help. I have a 1990 Geo tracker with ac and at. Does anyone know what would cause the coil that is mounted to the fire wall to keep burning out. I put a new coil in it a top of line one from NAPA and I drove it about 200 miles came home and shut it off came out the next day and it would not start hauled it to the repair shop and they had to put in a new coil to get it running and it only runs for a few minutes the computer
only flashes the 12 code thanks Kenworth600

[fixkick]

yes i do.
if all coil is correct for your 89/90 sidekick and tracker.?

the tech reason for overheat, is dwell is too long or infinite, burning up the coil..
the ignitor is bad. in the Dizzy. or the pickup...bad, ill bet ignitor... as its a oneshot logic , i think, it may overheat and stick burning up the the coil..
these ignitors are infamous for heat soak issues too.
when you stop a car, the coil must be dead, or it overheats. (i have a points car that does that by design, Hitlers revenge, now has CDI system.)

see the drawing here. for the paths.

as you can see the coil has full 12v power key on, so only the ignitor, can burn it up.
all coils (most) have a max dwell time. or they overheat.
This tactic allows max high voltage. from the coil, Ampere/ turns. The ECU charges the coil to saturation, no extra. when working correctly.







http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/no-spark.html


i think CARDONE sells a rebuilt less that the part to fix it.

[kenwortht600]

THANK YOU

[fixkick]

and good luck too....!!!

[kenwortht600]

yes i do.
if all coil is correct for your 89/90 sidekick and tracker.?

the tech reason for overheat, is dwell is too long or infinite, burning up the coil..
the ignitor is bad. in the Dizzy. or the pickup...bad, ill bet ignitor... as its a oneshot logic , i think, it may overheat and stick burning up the the coil..
these ignitors are infamous for heat soak issues too.
when you stop a car, the coil must be dead, or it overheats. (i have a points car that does that by design, Hitlers revenge, now has CDI system.)

see the drawing here. for the paths.

as you can see the coil has full 12v power key on, so only the ignitor, can burn it up.
all coils (most) have a max dwell time. or they overheat.
This tactic allows max high voltage. from the coil, Ampere/ turns. The ECU charges the coil to saturation, no extra. when working correctly.







http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/no-spark.html


i think CARDONE sells a rebuilt less that the part to fix it.

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Hi again thanks for all the help. I talked with the mechanic at the dealership. He said that the computer is sending out codes all the time even with the key off. I also replaced the coil, the fuel pressure regulator, and the O2 sensor and it again runs but according to the mechanic the computer is sending out codes all the time again any help would be appreciated

[fixkick]

Hi again thanks for all the help.
I talked with the mechanic at the dealership.
He said that the computer is sending out codes all the time even with the key off.

(the ECU is dead with no power (cept, dtc memory) and can not send out codes, with the processor dead (key off, only one chip in the ECU has power and that is the memory chip, the Brain (processor) is 100% dead)

not only that, the CEL has no power to flash with key off.
I think he meant, is this, if the ECU sees errors running, you can key off and the errors are stored in memory if the Dome fuse is not missing or bad.
this would be a correct statement if not code 41. (bad spark is cleared , each key off, a fact)

The coil will burn up, if the Dizzy ignitor goes bad. that is a fact.
the ECU does not create or manage spark in 89/90 ,but it does monitor the Tachometer wire and will show code 41s driving or running if in fact spark messes up. but dont key off, or the code is ERASED pronto.

I also replaced the coil, the fuel pressure regulator, and the O2 sensor and it again runs, but according to the mechanic the computer is sending out codes all the time again any help would be appreciated

no that is wrong. its not sending codes out all the time.

but you can (per my ECU page) connect the Diagnostic jumper (be that a fuse or paper clip) and in fact drive all week with that plugged
in and if the ECU sees anything thing wrong , it will change from code 12s (good) to some other code. on the fly, running in any way .
Keep in mind the ECU may not report a Bad IGNITOR under some failure conditions. its not that smart yet back in 1990.
I belive it can only report, total death on the fly or 1 spark missing in 8 hits. and no other checks.
for example key on not started, it may not even notice the ingitor is ON, (bad)


his replacements are a good idea, on old cars.

btw2, my new guess, is you take car in to shop, for misfire.
and the mech, has no Tech1 scan tool so must shoot from hip. or an ignition analyzer scope.
so he does 60k tune up with 02.
and a new coil ( shot gun methods)
then it misfires again
2nd mech puts in 1 more coil, (not knowing there is a fancy igntor there) and you think the coil is bad 2nd time. no its not. he was just guessing.
we have bench tester for coils. so we dont need to guess. and can do the 2 check in the FSM to find bad coils (ohms)

My guess is it misfires.
this is caused by bad spark or fueling on a good engine.

This dizzy has VR sensor and needs the gap set right.
the Dizzy most not have a main shaft bearing bad, allowing that above gap to jog good and bad.
the Ingitors can fail in many a way and do love to fail this old.
The advancing weights can jam, and all power is lost. (they simply rust)
the Vacuum advance can fail too. in 3 ways, leak or be dead or even stick. (most are long dead now)

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you never posted the reason for the 1,2,3, trips to the mechanic
what were all symptoms, each time.?
this is key to finding cause.

[kenwortht600]

The symptoms are that as I stated before that I had driven the vehicle 200 miles and shut it off and then it wouldn't start.
Then after it sat for a day it would start and run for ten seconds and then it would die and not start. If I took the positive cable off the battery for 5 mins then put the cable back on and waited for 30 seconds and tried to start it it would fire but not start. I took it to the dealership they found the converter was plugged they said that the temp went to over 500 degrees in a very short time so they disconnected the converter and replaced the O2 sensor it now starts and runs but the mechanic said that the computer sends out codes with the vehicle running or not. when I bought the vehicle I installed a new fuel pump,a fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator, coil, plugs and battery when it runs it does not misfire it seems to run fine either for a short time or until it is shut off then it won't start unless it sits for awhile. What I would like to know is this could the memory chip send out codes? Do I need to need to pull the the dome light fuse to stop this? what is a v r sensor and what is the gap supposed to be set at? How far away are you from Fargo ND 701-678-4185 The mechanic tested the coil and he put the orignal coil back in

[fixkick]

i do feel your pain, and wish to help @@
sorry , but engine problemes that are intermittant are the most difficult of all. even preventing a safe drive to a mechanic and worse, you get there and all symptoms vanish.
any time a good engine (you know it is, ) fails.
we first check spark at all 4 cylinders and on this car the coil top. 5 places.
if spark is good, check for flooding, if flooded, cranking WOT, (wide open throttle , will cure the flood)
that code thing turned off is totally wrong . forget he said that. i think it was misunderstood but? how can i know that , i didnt hear it.
first off YOUR ECU does NOT make spark, 89/90 run a stand alone, Distributor a DIZZy.
so you must check for spark when i dies. or spend a fortune guessing.
This ecu loves to fail too., they have bad caps disease.

I see your drift, your wishing the ECU can magically tell you why it wont run. (it might)
I want you to know, id love to fix your car, for free, if you were my neighbor id be there by your side with 6 major tools in a bag. and 1hr. later it would run. im in Texas.
The car has only 1 magic,
at the failure, not AFTER it runs.
insert diagnostic jumper.
key on,
what is the flash code, 12 good, no flashing at all is a BRICKED bad ECU, ECU's all have backup mode, Bricked, the main ECU is bad and this brick stupid ECU(sic) takes over.
so lets say, code 12s. engine wont start.
you crank for 5 seconds, (this magic time, allows the ECU to see spark fail)
you release the key.
do not turn off the key.
watch the CEL, see 41's if it flashes 41 NOW, that means the DIZZY is bad. (dizzy guts or main ignition coil,) (note i never assume parts that are new are good, )
key off, (41s are now forgotten)
that is it for ECU brains 1990, it is a dumb system.

i can see you have not read my pages on CEL, DTCs, nor that dizzy. but i do know it is confusing, and the evolution in 1991 to full ECU spark generation, timing , advance ,etc.....

so i will help you
Do I need to need to pull the the dome light fuse to stop this?
first off , for get the notion.
the DTC (error) memory , never stops cars from running, its just tests that fail and the DTC codes are stored there, (think of them as HINTS)

your engine will not start for the below reasons. i will list them all. (its only 3 in macro forum (engine,spark,fuel good) but ill expand on that)
1: lost 12vdc to the COIL or ECU. (lost to coil, no spark, lost to ECU fuel stops dead)
2: lost engine compression, yes, these engines have solid lifters and need service, so if lash is at .001" (gross error) then hot the compression falls like a brick and engine dies.
2b: CAT melted renders the engine totally useless, it blocks the exhaust 100% and there is no more air pumping action, nor vacuum to suck in fuel.
3: lost spark, you grab your test spark plug, from pocket , insert it in the coil output heavy wire end , ground the spark shell, and crank, OMG, no spark, the dizzy is hosed.
3b:ok you have spark at coil, and at all 4 spark wire ends, this is a test. not guessing, all steps are tests. no tests. no evidence and no solutions, ask for help testing.
4: bad fueling, you remove the spark plugs. (cheap tool) and behold, they are bone dry, (more tests) ask.
5: same as 4 but they are dripping wet in fuel, over fueling or flooding. is cause. (after all spark is good so ,, it must be overfueling)

the above tests will take you to the exact problem every time.


my wild guess, you took a running car to a mech and asked him to fix it? ( he can't because,its not broke, he will then gue$$ at your expense, he will, i promise)


the dome fuse , erases non code 12s from memory, it does nothing else , to the ECU, period.

lets start with a dead engine. and we can find why it fails.
a spark plug wrench and new spare spark plug , gapped to 0.028" note the leading zero there.
I need to know which Diagnostic port you have first.
have you lost your cab fuse box cover yet,
Geo Crackers, (wifes name) had 2 types of DIAG ports, (Suz, style 89, then 90 Geo style, then back to Suzuki style) all in 2 years, a royal pain that is. but we deal with it.
so do you have a diagnostic fuse port. seen here. first photo, we can start here.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html
if you dont have that fuse box, then go to the next photo of the white connector, see in 2nd photo above.
put the jumper there. the fuse if present or the B>C jump (paper clip bent, not plastic only metal clips work)

no code, key on, means the ECU is dead,
stuck glowing means the NAG feature is SET, defeat that (ask)
flashes 12, is good.
flashing 41, means bad spark (it really means bad Tachometer signals)
some other codes, running, or just cranking.
you can drive all week long with the jumper insert, why not do that. and then when the engine stalls what did the CEL do.
1: go dead and out.
2: stuck on, but no longer flashes.
3: flashes codes, (write them down)
here is my flash code list, this is ALL it can do, they are only ECU hints, the ECU sees an error and logs it, in this business we say it THREW DTCs.

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/DTC-errors/DTC-jtgh.html


btw2: the cat melted because the EFI system allowed gross rich misfire.
this older system loves to do that, the ECU goes to limphome and the driver ignores the CEL lamp on, and the CAT melts.
on new cars the CEL flashes, (means cat is melting)
forget all that, drive with the Diagnostic jumper inserted, until such time as the car runs perfectly, then take it out.
this will tell you LIVE failures.

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the dizzy on this car , has many failure mode, (unlike a 91-95 that never ever fails) when i say that it means 60k mile tuneups are done..... service is done.

one think about this car, is the easy to do spark tests. the spark plugs are not burried , like on new cars, nor covered by COPS, they right there , and can be tested easy.
off my old dizzy page,
see this photo this is the VR gap. in the FSM.
i grab the top shaft, and YANK (im a bloody indian not yank, lol) and if the gap varies, that mean the DIZZY main bearing are bad, get a new dizzy now.
set the gap or the VR will fail. it must be per the page, hell, it sill love to fail hot, or odd times, (the VR + ignitor are pair)
then i uses my strobe light (automotive std, timing light, xenon) and check for full advance (remember the 60s) and if its not advancing (vacuum line unplugged) that means the DIZZy
internal fly weights are rusted and seized.
then i do a Vacuum advance leak down test with my hand held vacuum tool. if fail i buy a new one, if pass , i make sure vacuum applied does in fact move advance inside. all very easy to do.
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/89-VR-calib.jpg

that tool above , both are $20 at harbor fright. dirt cheap.

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the dizzy on this car , has many failure mode, (unlike a 91-95 that never ever fails) when i say that it means 60k mile tuneups are done..... service is done.

one think about this car, is the easy to do spark tests. the spark plugs are not burried , like on new cars, nor covered by COPS, they right there , and can be tested easy.
off my old dizzy page,
see this photo this is the VR gap. in the FSM.
i grab the top shaft, and YANK (im a bloody indian not yank, lol) and if the gap varies, that mean the DIZZY main bearing are bad, get a new dizzy now.
set the gap or the VR will fail. it must be per the page, hell, it sill love to fail hot, or odd times, (the VR + ignitor are pair)
then i uses my strobe light (automotive std, timing light, xenon) and check for full advance (remember the 60s) and if its not advancing (vacuum line unplugged) that means the DIZZy
internal fly weights are rusted and seized.
then i do a Vacuum advance leak down test with my hand held vacuum tool. if fail i buy a new one, if pass , i make sure vacuum applied does in fact move advance inside. all very easy to do.
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/89-VR-calib.jpg

that tool above , both are $20 at harbor fright. dirt cheap.

if not flooding, (is it) and not dry for fuel ( the injector can be watched, with naked eyes, horn off))
but spark is bad, then. read this.
see my page in this dizzy here, hit control + F5 after load of page.

seen here
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/no-spark.html#89

[fixkick]

90' key upgrades fixes. if i had it.
1: new caps in ECU. http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html
2: front crank pulley but bolt set to new TSB spec, 94ft/lbs or the crank will die ,an early death, do that , now.
3: A new Cardone DIZZY. (the parts to buy and replace inside this old dizzy costs 3 times what CARDONE charges. ) do that now.
4: Remove air horn, from TB, (throttle body.) key on 5 times, does the INJECTOR leak? bingo, fix that NOW.
5: Complete a real 60k tune up,. all spark parts, filters and timing belt. (cap, rotor, wire sets, Bosch is good, C4 -clones suck) rotor on the RIGHT FLAT,
6: the 60k checks lash if you let lash go bad, the valves burn to a crisp, so dont skip items on the 60k list. its in my tuneup page, the official Suz, list. not mine.

it will run now, 99% sure.

learn to test spark?
learn to discover dry plugs and wet.
learn to do scotty's, add fuel test.
never take good running car to a repair shop and ask them to fix it, unless you are Gill Bates. or John Davison Rockefeller. they will GUE$$ , and Guessing is limitless..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064Ilsz8F...ature=fvwp

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btw 2 , cardone sells the best ECU in the USA. #1 top supplier,
but putting in new caps is like $3
yours are at end of life span, open lid, see names on caps, Rubicons? kick em to the curb.