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Broken vsv nipples - Printable Version

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Broken vsv nipples - MaurizioG - 11-01-2015

Hello everyone, I've got a Sidekick 16V 1992, I have bad idle, 2000rpm at the very start (cold engine) and it gets slightly higher as it gets warm.
Sidekick 16V 1992
I noticed I have 2 broken nipples on one of the two vsv's and the two tubes above it were short circuited (9 previous owners) see the photo?....can this be the cause or one of the causes for the high idle? and I can't do the pinch tests.
I have cleaned egr and throttle body (butterfly) and the vacuum pipes but idle still high.
I will clean ISC soon but can't find EGR tube (marked B in the 'smog' diagram).
Thanks for any advice!!

RE: Broken vsv nipples - fixkick - 11-01-2015

welcome !!!!
"i cant do pinch test means, ?" (only that the pinches do nothing?, good !, that is a passing test if that is what you mean.) pinching a leaking hose, stops that leak. and idle goes normal (or air fuel mix does)
the 8v engine races idle fast for all vacuum leaks,
what does your engine do fully hot at 180F? water temp?

but your 16v is tad different MPI MAF based engine (no map sensor there!) your EFI runs of the MAF, totally for fueling rates.
the 16v can race too fast too,same thing cold, but when hot, the leaks do cause lean and slower rpm. (if uncorrected) keep in mind the 02 sensor tries to correct minor air leaks. (lean it goes , efi goes rich to correct it.) if the hot air leak gets too high the EFI can not correct that error. (for sure at low RPMs (idle)

EGRSadid just bypass it, until the RPM issues are solved and you have lots of time to clean it or at least get the stall test to work, i bet it dont)
this old car with the older EGR (called the quad EGR ports,) the sidewidder "B" tube EGR pipe did not arrive until 1992 or 1993 and depends on which factory made your car, no matter, your car is quad EGR. very a hard to clean system....
back to air leaks, (there are 2 type, fresh air, or metered air, leaks) fresh if unmetered, and metered air is , like what the IAC+ISC +bleed air supply do.
there are many tests to find all vacuum (air) leaks, on any 16v.
Path 1:
the maf rear pipe, all the way to the engine head intake valves must not leak air (of any kind, not IAC+ISC+bleed caused){hot engine its only bleed + ISC}
takes lots of work to inspect that whole path..

on the 16v air leaks are tricky
cold engines, the fuel mix is rich , so air leaks cause faster idle. over normal fast idle. (1500rpm is typical cold idle, unless Canada or in alaska, can be more, via IAC ACTIONS)
as the engine heats the IAC starts closing, and RPM must drop, if not , something is wrong. big time wrong.

on a hot engine the fuel mix should be perfect, but any air leak will cause the mix to go lean and RPM drops, if said leak exceeds the control factors of ISC and oxygen loop live tuning.(closed loop its called)
if a leak is too large hot, then engine can slow down, go lean and have low engine power with gentle tip-in throttle.
there are many hoses to leak, and that main top huge air pipe must not leak (part 20 and 16 here?) http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/92-95-suck1.JPG

the lower fuel injector cushions x4 ( ID #6 below) must not leak. (vacuum side of injector (mpi x4)

see the paths here.
[Image: induction1a.jpg]
the TV #5 valve is first. it must be closed 99.9% at all times at idle, (up to 3 cables on the throttle all must be loose set to spec) the TV cable, 3sp A/T and cruise. cables.
the IAC is 100% closed on a hot engine, does yours get hot>? (170F +)?????? if not it will never close, and some just go bad.
the bleed screw needs to be set to 50% duty cycle so the ecu can control idle all the time. (can only be set when all leaks are cured, )
any place that leaks air (fresh air worse) is cause for problems. (both idle speed or lean air mixtures.)

EGR:
you defected the EGR VSV, that's ok, mostly but the top hose on top of TB to top of plenum box, needs to be plugged, too, EGR port that is . ported vacuum.
to fully defeat EGR. its just best to plug just that top hose. the EGR is dead now anyway, , no VSV and im sure the quad ports are clogged. (weekend lost to clean it)
Back to idle:
if all vacuum hoses prove to be leak free, id test the IAC.
if the IAC sticks open hot (or hot water pipes to it are clogged) the engine whil scream hot, does it? or is it too scary to run this engine hot (can be....)

my 97 this IAC failed.
that rectangular port is IAC main suction port (metered air input) I block this hole with clay, or "duct tape" and run engine ,not touching throttle!)
[Image: 16v-MPI-Body1w.jpg]
put the main pipe back, the MAF is not optional. put it all back as you found it, tight pipes and clamps.
i let it run and see the IAC body hit say 170f+ with my thermal gun and if the engine does not race hot now?, BINGO. IAC is bad. easy huh, just one simple test for IAC, (mostly, i test mine in pan of hot water)
then remove my clay, before any attempts at wild throttle activity.
warning removing the 16v IAC , the screws love to snap or strip. so I tend to do tests on car. using IR gun. (a pyro gun and clay tricks.)

vacuum leaks are hard to find, lots of possible paths.(just inspecting all hoses for cracks and the main air pipe and fittings for damage, is pretty easy,,, look and see.... works great.
lots of tests. some are dangerous. (liquid fuel spray tests tops that list of danger, I use propane gas )

on my 97, someone left the main huge induction clamps loose, and was allowed to bounce, the broke off the aluminum side tab and this tab left a huge hole in the side of that pipe, on the back side, hidden
looking matters. i had to weld it back with my TIG. some main input pip flex lines there, crack. this old. also and easy inspection point.
and same with those other large rubber hoses there, PCV pipe crack (there are 2)

and sure the ISC cleaning, it loves to get gummy when the EGR cloud hits the PCV cloud and makes GUNK.

RE: Broken vsv nipples - MaurizioG - 11-02-2015

Thank you so much for the huge amount of detailed information.....I'm not an english native speaker and I will have to read your post several times to fully understand the tips. The more I learn about this car the more I enjoy driving it.
I didn't say that the engine was recently fully rectified (cilinders, pistons, gaskets, valves, bushings etc..) and that the engine now has a life of 800 Km.
I will soon take the Sidekick back for the 1000Km check up (oil change and valves regulation)where it was rectified in the italian mainland (200Km from here).
As the Sidekick is my only car which I need daily (I live isolated on a stony hill) I don't feel like fiddle too much with parts I never put my hands on before. Luckily your endless fixkick site is very useful way to learn, to get tips and instructions and pass it to the mechanic as it is always best to be able to tell the mechanic where to look at before hand!
Today, after reading the fixkick site I started the engine and decided to fiddle with the TB idle bleed screw by closing it clockwise (it was screwed the opposite way) and managed to get to 500rpm idle....so I went back to get 800! Some white smoke and water dripping off the exaust.
Despite this fantastic achievement (thanks to your 'my idle is too fast' section) I will do the basic tests that you explain in your post like check the conduct from air filter to the throttle body, the coolant passage to IAC and ISC and do the ISC pinch test. I will tell the mechanic to inspect the IAC in throttle body and injector's gaskets and test TPS.
By the way, in your test for IAC, what if the IAC is bad ?? Could it be restored by cleaning or would I have to change the TB??
Also something else I noticed today by comparing the photos in the Fixkick site to my engine is that some previous owner eliminated the PCV valve (see attached photo). The PCV valve tube is not connected to the valve cover and it's capped with a bolt (?) What does this implies to the engine? Should I buy and fit the PCV valve straight away?

RE: Broken vsv nipples - fixkick - 11-02-2015

It's a great mpi engine. and very reliable. just keep it cool. and it lasts.
ok , seems the ISC is stuck. (electric, on left side of plenum box)
the IAC can not be fixed, (wax pellet inside.)

thats a bad trick blocking the PCV, that causes crankcase pressure to build, and oil leaks, from seals
and also forces the intake side of PCV to run backwards,
pcv is cheap, like $5 USD. and the hose. any smog hose there works, sized right.


so you can get 800 rpm hot? with that bleed, if yes, then does turning on Head lights and the heater blower at the same time give you , 800,
might sag to 700 or come back to 800 fast, 1second time? this is ISC regulation working.. and a test.

you now found 2 bad things, egr defeated, (no big deal) and PCV defeated, good going there....!
cheers !
ps
the other things to be sure of=?
engine reaches 180f (82c) and holds, not dropping,, and the thermostat well, it fits in a well if that well (pit rim) is 4mm deep it must have a rubber ring on the thermostat. if 1mm rim , paper gasket only. (cant be mixed the 2 or wrong)
or it floats and bad happens.

RE: Broken vsv nipples - MaurizioG - 11-02-2015

so many thanks....have already bought PCV and the grommet from a seller in USA.
Will check ISC and the thermostat pit rim, will check ISC with headlights and heating on as you said.
Now looking for the egr vacuum solenoid valve.
Thank you!

RE: Broken vsv nipples - fixkick - 11-02-2015

the vsv Suz p/n is 18117-58B20 (egr vsv) comes with 90deg. bracket


not cheap. , used , is best, for price, and most are good. used.

http://www.suzukicarparts.com/parts/1994/Suzuki/Sidekick/index.cfm?action=partDetail&section=EMISSION%20SYSTEM&group=EMISSION%20SYSTEM&subgroup=EGR%20SYSTEM&component=SOLENOID%20VALVE&partnumber=1811758B20&vehicleid=9153&siteid=214820

airtex wells and SMP make the rear vsv on 1996+ (usa smog changes then)




ah found it, rockauto has error, shows it for Geo but not in the suzuki index. what a shame.

here it is by SMP

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1142266&parttype=4380

#1 top
the give away is the filter vent on top. that lets air in , to prevent vacuum latch up.

VS129
http://ecatalog.smpcorp.com/STD/#/vehicles/parts/num/VS129?type=s

the suz master parts list shows just one p/n for this part, 92 to 98.
looks like the VS83 is yours.

[Image: 3_02_11_15_11_54_33.jpeg]

sold at rock auto. and many places.

this valve is closed at idle, opens moving and not WOT.

https://www.google.com/search?q=smp+vs83&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
3 cheers for SMP company,

RE: Broken vsv nipples - MaurizioG - 11-02-2015

Thank you, I was looking at this....it looks identical to mine, but no code(s) is given.
It has 2 nipples at the top and one at the bottom.

It's both valves...the whole unit for cheaper?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321884367730?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

RE: Broken vsv nipples - fixkick - 11-03-2015

does not yours have the 2 top nipples
unlike that ebay?

is not yours VS83
and not VS129

not sure the difference, besides nipple locations
one is listed as Calif, only.... but later cars 1995 up have the 129

RE: Broken vsv nipples - MaurizioG - 11-03-2015

2 top nipples and 1 at the bottom of the valve.
see the picture of the bottom nipple.....3 nipples total.
I think the top nipple is supposed to have a black cap on?
And connect the side top nipple and the bottom one to the 2 metal pipes above?
I have seen this connection in one of the pictures in the FixKick site (identical engine to mine) and also in one of the diagrams there.
The colours of the 2 valves are also identical (egr vsv is blu and the evap. vsv is black).

RE: Broken vsv nipples - MaurizioG - 11-18-2015

Still can't believe how much detailed information is in the Fixkick site and in this forum.
It's an endless source of academic/technical information, so well written and explained.
You really know your stuff!!!
Have fitted the PVC valve and the EGR vacuum solenoid valves and cleaned the ISC.
It's all going pretty well....thank you for the advice.
Greetings from Italy.