ECU - Printable Version

ECU - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: ECU (/thread-ecu)

Pages: 1 2

ECU - Captain - 04-06-2015

We need to get our 1993 Suzuki Sidekick 4dr/5spd/1.6 to pass the California Smog test. The car starts and runs fine but it failed the smog test with very bad emission numbers. But here

RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-06-2015

Hello and Welcome! 92 8v or 92 16v engine?????
ok, im not sure what they did to prove that,they have no idea in the world how to set the timing, it's got a secret timing freeze jumper,(my guess is they GUESSED)
best is not to listen to tail sniffers on fixing cars.
yes, the ECU sets dynamic timing but static is done by HUMANS. so if it static is off, the ECU does timing all wrong do to the base timing all wrong. up to 2005 year.
92 is no 2005 year. not even close and the 92 has Distributor, and no dizzy in 2005

forget that, what matters is what those numbers read, and what speed it fials.

the ECU guy is a crook. but is correct all 89-95 ecus need a new set if capacitors 1 time. for like 5 bucks.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html
would be last place to start (but do take of the lid of ecu and look for cap leakages. that is free. costs nothing..
i have a smog page.
http://www.fixkick.com/smog/smog.html
Questions: lots
ECU is last, buy 100 ECu and if sensors are bad all 100 ECU run bad. (most times its this, not bad ECU)

is the CEL on key on, ?
does it go off running? yes? good.
what is the smog chit say, scan it and post it.
here is one (numbersmatter)

http://www.fixkick.com/smog/suzuki-sidekick95-16v-failing1.jpg

sure all cars that fail smog , car drives ok, mostly.
engines seem ok, in fact running illegal too rich , make more horsepower. doing so.... so Power is not the issue, only smog.
tuned up yet, spark plugs, wires set, rotor,cap, and filters?
next is if cel glows running, get the Flash codes, see
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/CEL.html#OBD1codes

what is failing HC, NOX, CO?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<???????
and at what speed, of th 2.
other common factors for failure,
1 engine misfires
2 engine running rich.
3 cat dead
3 EGR dead.
4 timing belt slip, cause cam to be timed wrong, and distributor (spark) the ECU can NOT correct either EVER, its mechanical 100% this here.
5: exhaust leak near 02 sensor
6:leaking injectors, see #2
7: clogged injectors, see #1
8: fuel pressure too high, see #2
9: and more lots more. but its better to have the smog paper. to work what is really wrong and not just guess.

ECU (they clean it, fix caps, and blown injector transistors (other major parts inside the blow can not be bought , only cannibalized)
75 bucks does not buy any total rebuild,. that is a lie.
$400 is what Cardone charges and IS.

RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-06-2015

Keep an open mind on cars this old , it's 22 years old !
ive never seen one, with just 1 problem, usually many,
for smog, like 3 or for issues.
On this car, if I liked it. id: first. do....
1: set all brakes, put 5speed in 5th gear, and torque the front crank pulley bolt 17mm (deep wall socket) to 94-ft/lbs. now. saving crank from destruction.
This is a TSB warning by SUZUKI. above. do that day1.
2: take off the ECU, and look for caps leaking. see hell pit here : http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/hell/html/image_6.html
3: check timing next, if off the cam timing bet slipped, or last mech "messed up", or never knew about the Freeze. or never learned cam timing 101.
the freeze is here for all years with freeze (all years)
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/IGN-FREEZE.HTML

4: a real tune up. called a 60k service POINT
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/tune-ups.html
spark and filters. matter.

does engine idle at 800 rpm hot>?
does engine reach and hold 180F hot, 180f is minimum, i run 195 in mine to save fuel.
CEL lamp out driving.
there are no scan tools for pre 96 suzuki/trackers. (cept by us hackers, http://www.fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/addressmap-hacked.html)
having no scan tools makes diagnosis way harder, on all pre 96 cars in usa.
ECT read 300 ohms hot? (stop hot engine, pull connector , measure it? hot?)

try a new 02 sensor ? that dies about 100,000 miles and if dead, smog will never pass. (some can with a new cat installed, hiding the bad, it can)

ive not seen the chit yet, so above is general topic smog.
the chit may show only NOX failing, (EGR bad)

thanks for sharing !!!!!

RE: ECU - Captain - 04-07-2015

[attachment=235] Thanks for your response Fixkick.
Got both of your posts -- great stuff. This Sidekick is a 1993 16 valve engine. I attached a JPEG (much clearer than a scan) of the smog report. As you suggest, it may not be the only problem, but it seems that resetting the timing would be the first logical step (?). As you can see in the smog report, the timing is at 24 btdc right now and is supposed to be at 8 btdc (correct?). I did note you suggest taking the ECU out and checking the caps before doing the timing. If I do remove the ECU and it looks like there is a bad cap--will I need to fix that before going any further with the timing, etc.? (I'm guessing that involves getting the replacement caps and soldering them in(?))

Then I guess I should do whatever I can that is not too expensive before a drop another $60 to have it retested. By that I mean, as you suggest, changing oil, filters, spark plugs...Your smog page suggests I go ahead and replace at least the front O2 sensor.

See attached

Captain

(04-06-2015, 10:04 PM)fixkick Wrote: Hello and Welcome! 92 8v or 92 16v engine?????
ok, im not sure what they did to prove that,they have no idea in the world how to set the timing, it's got a secret timing freeze jumper,(my guess is they GUESSED)
best is not to listen to tail sniffers on fixing cars.
yes, the ECU sets dynamic timing but static is done by HUMANS. so if it static is off, the ECU does timing all wrong do to the base timing all wrong. up to 2005 year.
92 is no 2005 year. not even close and the 92 has Distributor, and no dizzy in 2005

forget that, what matters is what those numbers read, and what speed it fials.

the ECU guy is a crook. but is correct all 89-95 ecus need a new set if capacitors 1 time. for like 5 bucks.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html
would be last place to start (but do take of the lid of ecu and look for cap leakages. that is free. costs nothing..
i have a smog page.
http://www.fixkick.com/smog/smog.html
Questions: lots
ECU is last, buy 100 ECu and if sensors are bad all 100 ECU run bad. (most times its this, not bad ECU)

is the CEL on key on, ?
does it go off running? yes? good.
what is the smog chit say, scan it and post it.
here is one (numbersmatter)

http://www.fixkick.com/smog/suzuki-sidekick95-16v-failing1.jpg

sure all cars that fail smog , car drives ok, mostly.
engines seem ok, in fact running illegal too rich , make more horsepower. doing so.... so Power is not the issue, only smog.
tuned up yet, spark plugs, wires set, rotor,cap, and filters?
next is if cel glows running, get the Flash codes, see
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/CEL.html#OBD1codes

what is failing HC, NOX, CO?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<???????
and at what speed, of th 2.
other common factors for failure,
1 engine misfires
2 engine running rich.
3 cat dead
3 EGR dead.
4 timing belt slip, cause cam to be timed wrong, and distributor (spark) the ECU can NOT correct either EVER, its mechanical 100% this here.
5: exhaust leak near 02 sensor
6:leaking injectors, see #2
7: clogged injectors, see #1
8: fuel pressure too high, see #2
9: and more lots more. but its better to have the smog paper. to work what is really wrong and not just guess.

ECU (they clean it, fix caps, and blown injector transistors (other major parts inside the blow can not be bought , only cannibalized)
75 bucks does not buy any total rebuild,. that is a lie.
$400 is what Cardone charges and IS.

RE: ECU - Captain - 04-07-2015

This is actually my roommates car--I am helping him fix it so I can buy it. He says the CEL light is on. Also, he had the timing belt replaced less than 2 years ago. I do have a timing light. He also says the tachometer is broke, so I'll have to get a portable one at Harbor Freight or Ebay.
You are saying the EGR valve is bad? Can I get a used replacement valve? Do you know where?
If the cat is bad, here is one on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Catalytic-Converter-Exact-Fit-Center-fits-91-95-Suzuki-Sidekick-1-6L-L4/171655014387?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D333007%26algo%3DRIC.FBT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D30004%26meid%3D6e42d6f139fe4274ba76152f0605024b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D400840972700&rt=nc

As for the the Gallery post--I'll send you a new photo tomorrow with all of the personal info deleted (the whole Vin, etc.)

RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-07-2015

Great, the Cel on key on, is great sign. (means ECU is not totally dead and running in backup mode)
but it (CEL) must go out, running.. is it? if not it has errors recorded or has live errors. called DTC. diagnostic trouble codes.
DTC 51 is EGR failure. (it's not just one part, it's a system.) if there are other DTCs. those all must be corrected first. this test is 5 mins work.

The 92 year, is the year they changed and the early models EGR is harder to clean. (deep hidden EGR ports, I call a quad port system)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95/93-16v-egrports001.jpg
find the EGR main yet, see that diaphragm there? inside it, engine off, can you push in the metal ring,
here.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/egr-main2.jpg

you link to CAT says, its not CALIF. approved. (his title is flawed,leaves out the word NOT)
before changing parts, we need to know what exhaust system is in car, there are, 1 is federal, other is calif.
that ebay link shows 3 errors. not asking which of 2 engines you have nor if calif or federal car,2 bolt or 3 bolt. his photo (left side is 3 bolt FED CAT for 16v only)

does the under hood, sticker have the words California in it.?

we need to identify the engine first. (next)

there are 2 places to look, the right side of the intake manifold plenum for tube #50
and the exhaust header.
the header has a flange, one is gasket flange with 3 bolts. federal type,
or the 2 bolt donut gasket flange. Calif type.
my answers are for stock parts. only... if its been modified, id need photos. to comment.
the cat must be TCW, three way cat, not 2 way, or it will fail EGR tests.

are you hands on, or just trying to guess why smog fails?
i'd the engine reaching full temperatures, 180F min. is first. is it ? that is a hands not test.
the jump clip test is next, that is hands on test too. many tests are hands on, and easy. super easy.
cleaning EGR system is huge labor. (if all tests fail, all easy tests.)

got part 50, i think not. in the intake>? see photos at end.
?

when buying parts, for this car, there are 3 cars. (8v, 16v calif. and 16v fed)
the sellers are all infamous in, not knowing what they are selling or even know there are 3 cars.
here is my matrix of exhuast mans. all 5

http://www.fixkick.com/buy-parts.html#factory

look on rockauto.com
see all parts , offered, but you must know what engine you have. as it lists them all , mixed up.

you dont have tube 50 do you, its a SST stainless steel (no rust) tube oh right side of plenum
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/92-95-EGR-16v.jpg

buying a Suzuki here, is an act of love
chapter 11 they went. bankrupt and dont sell cars here now.
if you need a real suzuki parts, you need to wait up to 10 days for suzuki to get it from far away.
or buy GM parts. (Geo)

easy list of facts.
1: jumper clip the DLC to get DTC errors?
2: push in the EGR main valve ring, is it stuck (engine off) if it moves this ring,(diaprham) i then push it in running , engine must stall.
3: is exhaust header flange 2 or 3 bolt.
4: the 92 did not have the part 50 side EGR tube. according to your vin. (but engine swaps happen) so cleaning that quad egr port a full day job, intake manifold pulled.

the 1993 4door, calif has this recalled, exhuast header tube. a 90 degree small pipe in front of cat. that melts inside and blocks the exhaust path and causes EGR to go nuts.
the FED pipe here, is long, with 3 bolt top flange. the shorty Calif pipe, (TSB recalled) has 2 bolts on top. matching calif exhaust manifold.

easy huh?

here is the 93V,4door calif exhaust. per parts book 16v

here is the Calif, set up, got this?
all these checks are like 15min work hands on, ID car,ID engine, ID intake, and exhuast and then look at the flash codes.

part one calif has an internal shell that fails , it glows red hot, melts and collapses blocking exhaust.

checking timing is easy but engine must be hot , 180f, is it and idle at 800 and regulating.. if not regulating, the freeze jumper fails to work. per the page

see fast track here. just 5 steps.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/16v-procedure.html

did car pass smog 2 years ago? or did it come from out side state.
if it passed, , i bet the EGR only needs repair,
and maybe a new 02 sensor.
no shop (pretty much) has a scan tool for these old suzuki's so is hard to fix. lacking this tool.
for example is the 02 dead, 5min work with a scan tool.

near free scan tool , and how it was hacked is here.... "deep details" but just a $60 cable and free software and has pay back, if it finds a bad sensor in 5min.

http://www.fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/addressmap-hacked.html

RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-08-2015

on my gen2 Egr page. see tube 50, if there, its not a 93 but a 95+ engine.
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html#tube50

i always look here first.
if car is still stock, many are not, its NOT there.

I new cat can hide many failures in the engine, (for a while) "like running rich"
"
but will not hide a dead EGR. it can only get about 1/2 the NOX smog, cheating.

RE: ECU - Captain - 04-08-2015

[attachment=238]Fixkick,

Do me a favor and please delete the smog report from the gallery and replace with the attached one. Since I don't have permission from the car owner (I am a possible buyer), I don't want to show any of his particular or personal information. If you want to post to the gallery for other members, please substitute the attached version which has all the vin, tag and other info redacted. I don't even want to show partial vins, etc.

thanks,

Capt.

(04-08-2015, 12:46 AM)fixkick Wrote: on my gen2 Egr page. see tube 50, if there, its not a 93 but a 95+ engine.
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html#tube50

i always look here first.
if car is still stock, many are not, its NOT there.

I new cat can hide many failures in the engine, (for a while) "like running rich"
"
but will not hide a dead EGR. it can only get about 1/2 the NOX smog, cheating.

RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-08-2015

bingo all gone,easy
i

watch out for calif rules
most calif shops can not fix car wrong way or go to jail or $10k fines.
that means if he witnesses, the car failing smog, say HC is too high or NOx is too.
he must fix that. all that.
you cant tell him ,say, fix egr and ignore the rest, or he will tell you sorry, i cant do that. "the law"
see,,, the rules in calif are very strict.
That is why its best to fix all you can by self first. avoiding the trap.
Best is to do the CEL DTC test. use the jumper clip.
it cant find much, but what it does find ,must be fixed.(first) "more law
"

RE: ECU - Captain - 04-08-2015

I hear ya. Bottom line is I don't buy it unless he can pass smog. If he won't spend to do it, then he junks the car or whatever and I move on. BTW, just saw a 97 Sidekick on craigslist with 67k original miles (allegedly) Basic 4dr model with no AC or any extras for just under $2,600 (the blue book).

OK, to review--for Diagnostic on the DLC, connect the #4 to the #2
Then for the timing, connect #4 with #5. Correct?
And the number one spark plug is the one closest to the front of the car?