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+--- Thread: Fail after 172 (/thread-fail-after-172)
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Fail after 172 - calo - 11-18-2014
Hi again friend!!
I have a very strange problem.
When using gasoline, the car works perfectly until it reaches the temperature of 172-176
RE: Fail after 172 - fixkick - 11-19-2014
Duel fuel car. got you buddy ,& welcome!
8v 93
bogs above, 176F
on Gasoline, only. so the engine is good.
it's bad EFI gasoline, side.
ok when the engine gets hot the ECT reports that.
and the EFI switches to warm/hot running mode.
runs with new injection rules.
its not the 02, because when you accelerate the 02 is disabled, so not that
my guess is ( bad TPS, or MAP )
Its not air leaks because the MAP adjusts for that and injects perfectly for all air leaks on the 8v.
what is fuel pressure at idle? and when you gun the throttle? fuel pressure is first. on this engine, its not monitored by the ECU.
my guess its ok, as it runs ok cold and WOT. (wide open throttle) 34 to 41 PSI is spec pressure running all the time, idle or WOT.
GeoTracker (sidekick here) 1.6 8v Automatic(3A) (1993)
ok its in your first post)
BOGGING? (ill assume the spark tips are not black as burned wood)!
(low fuel pressure)
(injector clogged partially)
map hose clogged, or leaking,
bad map (very very rare and easy to test , ask.)
Black tips: Flooding?
ECT bad, causing black spark plugs, engine not bogging but misfiring due to flooding,(opposite reason) examine spark tips, they are a big clue.
bogs? transitory?
TPS bad , (dead) would cause a short bog, not long bog to WOT. TPS enrich mode is like for a second. then the MAP catches up to reality and fueling
is controlled by map alone. (and IAT) the IAT air temp if reading why TOO hot can make it lean. but i dont think the IAT is bad, they never fail.
first or last, bad is bad.
bad fuel.
RE: Fail after 172 - calo - 11-19-2014
When I clean the tank filters y change gas.
A problem in the ecu ? I changed the transistors remember? But, it must fail in cold too. I discart that
BOGGING constant after hot temperature reached. Automatically normalized when drop temp. Then temp up, same problem.
No CEL codes!
Strange?Next steep, check sensors....
Greatings!
RE: Fail after 172 - fixkick - 11-19-2014
(11-19-2014, 04:01 AM)calo Wrote: When I clean the tank filters y change gas.
A problem in the ecu ? I changed the transistors remember? But, it must fail in cold too. I discard that (bad to assume that, if 1 transistors shorts the EFI over fuels, and sparkplugs turn black and misifires but you never check the spark tips yet> why not look at say the front #1 sparkplug.? tip.
BOGGING constant after hot temperature reached. Automatically normalized when drop temp. Then temp up, same problem.
No CEL codes!
The CEL only reports CATASTROPHIC ERRORS> only. but does it flash 12s full time.????
Next step, check sensors....
Greatings!
so no CEL codes, means?
it flashes 12s all the time? or the lemp is dead.
so lets look at this from the ECU point of view (EFI)
that is needed to mix fuel. Ill list them.
1: the single injector not clogged. (partial) (usually by running old nasty fuel this happens)
2: ECU good, code 12s parked, and moving, and driving.
3: Fuel pressure at spec, see above. (i use a gauge to measure pressure, i never try to guess. it's #1 for injection to work right, and #1 fail point.
4: full 12vdc power to ECU (im sure its ok) and flashes codes 12?, as engine bogs. does it?, you can drive with diag jumper installed at any time.
5: all sensors good, they must work right ,except 02.) map, iat, ect, tps. ? (just 4 sensors)
just 5 things, we know the 6th is good. the engine.
its not the 02, as it is "disabled" accelerating.
the EGR must not be stuck open. but would cause your LNG? LPG to fail too. so is not EGR.
my guess is you don't have a fuel pressure gauge, and must guess? most posts that go to infinity are just this. one reason.
when cold the AFR is real rich and this can hide low fuel pressure, when hot the pressure must be in spec, or it will bog, or if at 60psi, will flood.
the pressure must be right
and the ECT unplugged hot, is about 300 ohms.
the map is easy too.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/my-map.html
MAP
1.2v at idle?
then gun the engine by hand , on throttle and get.? see the voltage shoot up near 3.5v? it must.
if you give it 1/2 or 3/4 throttle, and then wait, does power resume, holding foot. id need to drive car to see if map or tps was bad.
the TPS is very hard to test. but can be done with a wire, run from TPS to passenger how holds a voltmeter as you drive.
this proves that TPS part good or bad. they are very expensive , TPS. over $200 uSD
RE: Fail after 172 - calo - 11-21-2014
Sorry,
"No CEL codes! Sad Strange?" Means no error codes. Sorry my English is note very good.
In the weekend ...I am doing the testing...
Greatings!
RE: Fail after 172 - fixkick - 11-21-2014
no need ever to be sorry, you're good to go here.! and welcome.
just need to know, if it flashes, code 12, all the time, on demand.
and while driving.?
the CEL can do many things, some good , others bad.
1: Stuck on. (keyon is good, not on, key on, is bad, stuck on, with diag. jumper , bad.)
2: Dead, out all the time. Never glows ever. bad.
3: will not flash code 12, on demand. (bad)
4: starts to flash a code and stops mid stride! (bad)
5: or flashes non 12 codes or 5 more more codes in sequence. (good, but the codes are errors "intelligence")
see? "claro?"
(11-21-2014, 06:00 AM)calo Wrote: Sorry,
"No CEL codes! Sad Strange?" Means no error codes. Sorry my English is note very good.
In the weekend ...I am doing the testing...
Greatings!
RE: Fail after 172 - calo - 11-25-2014
Only flash on demand (diag jumper)
All seem to be good...
(11-21-2014, 06:25 AM)fixkick Wrote: no need ever to be sorry, you're good to go here.! and welcome.
just need to know, if it flashes, code 12, all the time, on demand.
and while driving.?
the CEL can do many things, some good , others bad.
1: Stuck on. (keyon is good, not on, key on, is bad, stuck on, with diag. jumper , bad.)
2: Dead, out all the time. Never glows ever. bad.
3: will not flash code 12, on demand. (bad)
4: starts to flash a code and stops mid stride! (bad)
5: or flashes non 12 codes or 5 more more codes in sequence. (good, but the codes are errors "intelligence")
see? "claro?"
(11-21-2014, 06:00 AM)calo Wrote: Sorry,
"No CEL codes! Sad Strange?" Means no error codes. Sorry my English is note very good.
In the weekend ...I am doing the testing...
Greatings!
RE: Fail after 172 - fixkick - 11-25-2014
the word NO has many meanings
1: the lamp is dead, (out)
2; i install the jumper "diag" and it flashes code 12 (meaning the ECU is happy, no errors0
3: the lamp will not flash at all. when the Diag jumper is placed
The CEL lamp most glow keyon, does it? saying "no CEL tells me" it does not glow keyon. is that true?
then with the jumper in place the CEL must flash something, if NOT the ECU is bad. (a common action for BACKUP MODE FAILURES)
does if flash code 12 when you demand it (demand means using the paper clip in the DLC socket per my page on same)
?
keyon
CEL glows steady , then goes out running.
you insert the paper clip
the CEL flashes 12s, does it flash 12.
all of these answers only gets use off page one top .of page, on ECU diagnosis, this is the first step on all cars. new cars we scan but is the same results. no DTCs stored and all sensors look good , live data on new cars)
on your car all we have is that silly CEL. so , tell me what it does,. please.
RE: Fail after 172 - calo - 11-26-2014
On demand flashes code 12 and glow on keyon and then goes out running.
Greatings!
RE: Fail after 172 - fixkick - 11-26-2014
HOT bogging, but not at WOT.
misfiring is violent car , engine and shift handle shakes, this is not bogging it is gross misfiring.
flashes code 12s, good
but did it flash code 12s as the engine bogs? the ECU can in fact throw codes, on the fly at ANY SPEED or LOAD, or HILLS.
so why not drive car and let it flash 12s as you drive , and just see if in fact the ECU saw a gross error, on the fly.
on the fly means driving fast, it bogs and bam code DTC 32s flash.
if yes, bingo , it not then we have powerful facts based on that test.
la bomba (you meant this is spanish right?), and meant Fuel pump checked, but what was the pressure, 30 psi is correct as is a new filter.
my wild guess is the fuel pressure is no good. (i always check it, even CAR moving fast)
the pump can go to very low PSI at anytime. for many reasons, even bad wiring as the 2 door car loves to do.
but since it runs ok WOT id not blame the pump (bomb)
when it bogs, is the bog smooth and if you increase the throttle and it bogs, does it catch up, in that the power returns if you just hold the right
foot at a steady 1/2 throttle> ??????????
Im sure its all fueling related
im not sure how you car makes spark, with LNG.
The ECU most be fooled some how to make spark under LNG mode. tricky that would be....
but in Petrol mode (gasoline, ) it must be using the same spark system, is it?
if yes, we can discount bad spark, see my drift?
ok so is bad fueling. Gasoline.
that means its 1 of 3 things.
1: bad fuel pressure, (flow) only fuel pressure gauges work here, not squirt tests, or other guessing.
2: ECU inputs wrong. (any) MAF, ECT , or TPS. in that order, My guess is ECT is ok, because the ECU goes to hot mode at 176f , as it should.
3: Injectors bad. or ECU is not pulsing them correctly. (bad ecu)lots of tests. ask. its all on my injector pages or FSM.