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+--- Thread: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! (/thread-very-high-idle-please-help)
Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - lmfire - 10-14-2014
Ok, for starters i just joined this forum and love all the knowledge here! please excuse my spelling and bare with me. LOL
For starters I have a 1990 Tracker 8v....yeah i know, one of the bad ones.... did not know this until after buying it! Now for the "issues"
The car upon crank up idles to around 3k RPM. Sometimes it will idle down to 2200 after warm, but not always. There is no high idle dash pot, it was removed prior to my purchase, and the vacuum line has been plugged. The is no EGR module, and the EGR valve has been blocked off, and i also capped vacuum lines. Found plenum gasket to be ripped, and replaced it. "thought that was the problem, but not so much" Tested the ECT and it tested correct "350 ohms when hot" but had a new one so I went ahead and replaced it anyway. Found old plugs gapped at .055", so bought new NGK and gapped to .028 per FSM. New rotor and distributor cap, plug wires, ignition coil ISC valve...ect. Cleaned IACV and seems to be working properly "smooth and springs back". I have not Changed the idle one bit!!! IMMA BOUT TO LOOSE MY MIND!!!! I have used at least 4 cans of carb cleaner and cannot get my idle to change one bit after the new plenum gasket. I can take the air cleaner off and cup my hand over the horn on the TB and get it to idle down, or even choke it down if I close it all the way off. I get NO vacuum the line of the vacuum advance line to the distributor. I tried unplugging the ECT sensor while engine running and had no change in RPM. What in the world could do this to me? By the way "i can
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - fixkick - 10-14-2014
welcome.
and we can find it
Ok, for starters i just joined this forum and love all the knowledge here! please excuse my spelling and bare with me. LOL
take your time, and we can knock off the ducks.
For starters I have a 1990 Tracker 8v....yeah i know, one of the bad ones....
Their ok, just iSC's go nuts.
did not know this until after buying it! Now for the "issues"
The car upon crank up idles to around 3k RPM. , tad high, 1500 to 2500 (summer . /winter)
Sometimes it will idle down to 2200 after warm, but not always. (that is a huge air leak)
There is no high idle dash pot, it was removed prior to my purchase, and the vacuum line has been plugged.
Ok that means the owner (PO) did that to hide the bad idle issues.
Once we fix that leak, the missing DP will make engine flood starting ,but there is right foot action to avoid that.
The is no EGR module, and the EGR valve has been blocked off, and i also capped vacuum lines. (it will run ok , with out)
Found plenum gasket to be ripped, and replaced it. "thought that was the problem, but not so much"
Tested the ECT and it tested correct "350 ohms when hot" GOOD !
but had a new one so I went ahead and replaced it anyway.
Found old plugs gapped at .055", so bought new NGK and gapped to .028 per FSM. very good.
New rotor and distributor cap, plug wires, ignition coil, ISC valve...ect. You have a new ISC? really ?
Cleaned IACV and seems to be working properly "smooth and springs back". this is in the base of the TB, you fiddled that?
I have not Changed the idle one bit!!!
IMMA BOUT TO LOOSE MY MIND!!! do not worry, all leaks can be found. we canb find them from easy to find to harder. order.
I have used at least 4 cans of carb cleaner and cannot get my idle to change one bit after the new plenum gasket.
have you turned the TV throttle valve , screw CCW to close up the TV?
I can take the air cleaner off and cup my hand over the horn on the TB and get it to idle down, or even choke it down if I close it all the way off. (smart move)
I get NO vacuum the line of the vacuum advance line to the distributor. (the port is plugged but that nipple i ported vacuum.)
I tried unplugging the ECT sensor while engine running and had no change in RPM. (wow that is messed up)
What in the world could do this to me?
By the way "i can
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - lmfire - 10-14-2014
I haved adjusted the throttle screw to the point it was actually sticking. most likely not exactally .0005" right now but figured i would fine tune when i get a little closer.... very minimal change. Yeah..... I got a new ISC valve 200 bucks.......I have pinched all vacuum hoses witout any change in RPM. There is some slack in the throttle cable. As far as i know the check engine light doesnt work. never seen it come on at any given time. I think you are on to something with the IAC I will have a little time this week to check things over again. Had to leak it alone this weekend to let things soak in. What kind of clay are you talking about when you block the ports? I even bought a FSM off ebay to try to get this thing going, Im not a ASE mechanic, but I can do most anything with my cars. This thing has single handedly whooped me and is hurting my pride. haha
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - fixkick - 10-15-2014
if you close the TV 99 to 100 % then back off, just the smallest amount so the TV does not stick that is all there is to that.
and proves you have a huge air ,leak and only where is the question.
a dead CEL means 2 things, lamp burned out or ECU is bad. not testing the lamp means you will not know 2 things, ECU dead, or DTC errors. running any car with no CEL is a very hard way to fix cars... near impossible. (no scan tool) on newer cars i pay it no mind and use my scan tool for ALL.
Rule one all cars get the CEL to work (OBD1 cars)
this is a great car (perfect infact) to learn EFI,, super easy TBI system , just one injector, and only a map for air flow calcs. super easy system.
rule 1. TBI , all air leaks cause a too fast idle.
and if it leaks too much, the ISC will not be able to cure, gross air leaks, (ISC electric) even a new one,cant.
that is super you have a FSM, you will never be sorry having one. i promise. it will pay for its self, no matter the car.
a true investment with real returns.....
ok , I use off the shelf, mastic putty. sold at all big box hw stores, home depot or what ever...
or ductseal
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Bender-DS-110N-1-Pound-Compound/dp/B000BO8XD6/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1352035406&sr=1-1&keywords=GB+Electrical+DS-110N+Electrical+Duct+Sealant
used in ducts and by all electrician, in commercial, power panels and where they want to stop water ingress to electrics.
never gets hard and sticks like mad. is best.
see this port here.
block this first. (clean with carb cleaner, so the clay can stick and not get sucked in the engine.
page 12 covers this
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_Show/HTML/image_12.html
lets see page 1. see this hole.? just above H2O , I bet you have a TB air leak to that hole, I do thinks so..
if the ISC is blocked off or (turned off) the only leak there would be IAC,
2 things feed that hole ,(assumes the TB center gasket is not sucked in like many do) the IAC and ISC feeds that 1 hole.
if i owned 89/90 id add a fire wall ISC cut switch (SPST) so i could do easy diagnosis. if you open the switch and idle is not 400 rpm or stalling, it's got leaks.
![[Image: manifold%20differences.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_Show/images/manifold%20differences.jpg)
to get a good iac, i had to buy 2 more used Throttle bodies, and finally got one that works. (3 speedo heads to get a working VSS and odometer and speedo)
relate?
Quote:NO vacuum the line of the vacuum advance line to the distributor.is Dizzy vacuum advance
see hose 33 here,
is that not sucking with advancing throttle action, this line is ported vacuum and only sucks when accelerating.
as you see fitting 22, splits this ported vacuum to dizzy and to egr. this allows the EGR to be never active at idle.
if the TB base gasket is wrong, blocking the porting, hole, there will be no vacuum advance and you will waste fuel with that land loose low end torque from engine.
some of these old 8v, they have like 5 things wrong just with the TB. from bad service, wrong parts, or missing.
for sure the only hard thing with TBI setup is testing all TB parts. getting them all working is not easy , many a time.
takes hard work. (best is to have and attic full of TB parts, used,) IMO
i found buying OLD whole intake manifolds with TB setting on it , was way cheaper than buying a tb, NEAT
most wrecking yards are devoid of any 89 cars much less, sidekick G16a engines (gen 1)
ebay i only viable source. or begging on craigs list. i do that all the time WTB.
wanted to buy, 89/90 bla bla..
you did not post a photos of the TB. so i can only assume its still stock.
do you have the correct gasket there.
page 19 in my TB slide show ,presents, this.
![[Image: throttlebodygasketkit8v.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_Show/images/throttlebodygasketkit8v.jpg)
please post full spec on car.
door count.?
a/t or m./t?
2wd or 4wd.?
how many miles on engine.
and fix CEL lamp
now lets cover that.
the FSM covers this step. under ECU and step 1, it says , key on, cel on, if not do this
they have you remove the ECU connector (it's got a lock tab, like all suz do, never force any conn. on car. ) and you remove it.
and ground out (jumper wire) the CEL pin B13 and the lamp must glow. (do not do that to ECU , do that to the connector pin)
wire color violet yellow, (violet with yellow stripe)
the lamp is not hard to change.
that is on my speedo page
many evil previous owners love to remove the CEL to sell car with faults, bad boys.
or tape it with black tape, or cut the wire. evil has no bounds.
the lamp is a GE #18 lamp
http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/cluster-pull/cluster-out.html
we can find each fail and deal with each , in many ways. 1 by 1,
ok?
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - lmfire - 10-15-2014
Sorry about the Specs! wasnt thinking. Its a 2 door, M/T, odometer not working. PO said engine has about 50k on it, but who knows. engine does seem tight and very little leaking. 4WD
When you say block the IAC port are you taking bout inside the valve or in throttle body? The TB gaskets are the top two you have in the picture.
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - fixkick - 10-15-2014
good a simple 2door m/t less parts to break.
the IAC can be blocked, 3 ways. each why is harder.
1: top port intake hole use putty/clay to block it.
2: remove the 3 screws on IAC side port (they tend to not want to come out) and pack the hole thing there, inside.
side 9, see those comments there.? i even give the gap sizes at 3 temps, no place on earth is this document but by me..... I have number dill set 1-60 and measured the gap. easy
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_Show/HTML/image_9.html
3: remove TB, and block the IAC port (this kills isc too) but you the ISC is already bocked, , blocking this hole does iAC by self.
my slide show has every drawing made for this car.
my slide #37
in your mind, put a large X on the bleed #7
#9 is iSC (elecric)
The IAC and ISC arrive in the same spot , see that white arrow.? next to numerical 8 there.
no better drawing exists for this TB, its shows it all.
the ISC can be removed and blocked, those ports to the ISC one sucks air, so block it. RPM still high
then block the IAC. its that simple.
the easy way is #1 way above. clay/putty. if the IAC can not suck air, it can not leak, (i think)
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_Show/images/92TBI-1.jpg
there are many folks that post and the IAC is bad. it works exaclty the same way as the engine thermostat with same expanding wax pellet.
I know one guy , that just keeps the iAC packed in clay for ever.
and needs to start car with 5% throttle or it starves for air and floods.
the ECU is programmed for a working iAC and ISC, if not the ECU has great difficulty starting the engine with the wrong air supplies. floods.
in your case hot starts will be too lean,. stuck open. until the MAP sensor wakes up and corrects all this wrong air calcs.
my newr 16v car , (blown engine) the IAC was stuck full open, on a hot engine, it screamed Blondy murder.. like wild a banchee..
keep in mind all these parts are prime players when starting in real cold whether.. and needed.
on newer cars they deleted the iAC and used a much more powerful iSC that can open real extra wide,. (using a stepper motor drive)
the newer car has a faster computer and can do all this with no effort , this old ECU uses a very crude IAC. pure mechanical.
the odometer dead is ok, but if ??speedo is dead ??the VSS is dead, if he VSS is dead, the ECU will go to limphome or for sure have low power on hills.
VSS is a critical sensor on all EFI cars. big time. it uses that sensor and the map to calculate turn engine load and REQUIRED Fuel.
one can remove the TB
and remove the cover screws x3 (i used heat on them first to crack them loose. fast heat , torched.)
lid off.
using hot water pan. i submerged the TB in 3 inches of water.
then heat the water to 160F, if the valve dont close, it's bad.
super simple easy test. but requires removing the TB.
same as the test of any cars thermostat. Classic.
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - lmfire - 10-15-2014
the spedo and odometer both dont work
with that being said, the car dosent seem too weak..... I mean it has a total of 80 ish HP right?
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - fixkick - 10-15-2014
that just means the cable fell off or snapped, easy fix. if the gear on the bottom of car turns.
on some the cable end there, has key that falls if. all this is easy stuff.
if the cel works and the VSS was dead, that tells me for sure the cable is dead. all 3 dead.
but the odometer (actual) almost never fails.
80hp at flywheel, not tires. ABOUT 20 % LESS.
THE CABLE
THERE ARE 2 TESTS.
One at the head, and one at transmission
at the head, spin one rear tire. the cable end , removed at head must spin
at trans.
un screw it and examine the end, is the key missing on end or broken off. like many?
does the gear turn at tranny (1 rear tire off ground) as you spin rear prop shaft, no bad gears there, (rare)
yes it turns,
ok you pull the cable out, of the cable sheath, it comes out , at any time, is it broken mid span?
the end (top end) is squared ended, so if you dont get that end , then its blocken off, a bad cable.
that is it.
2 ends and cable.
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - lmfire - 10-15-2014
ok THANKS fixkick!!! I will check into all of this over the next few days! not 100% on all of this or the procedure, but will sure check it out! you have given me hope for my little fun/hunting toy
RE: Very high idle. PLEASE HELP!!! - fixkick - 10-15-2014
the VSS is not an optional sensor
many many many thing key off a working VSS. (in the head)
full engine power will not happen. running and engine in neutral with no load is not like going up hill at speed, not at all.
the ECU will not activate the EGR,
the ECU will not know its moving and will mess up fuel cut mode, and other modes, one is dash pot effect and the other is pumping losses , reduction.
all these waste fuel.
if have cruise option, it be dead.
if car has RWAL it too, many fail.
GOOD LUCK !!!!!