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EGR stall test question - Printable Version

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RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-15-2014

bingo on video, no better one posted, its perfect

it has to be hot.
the test is a hot test, the IAC must be closed, or huge air flow happens and the EGR have way less effect on large flows of air.
this test is an 800 rpm hot test.

do not get burned, id use pump , but if no pump,id use, a soft stick or something not hands to push that steel ring plate, seen in that video.

did you do the hot test to see diaphram opens under the live test?
1: hot engine, 100% hot, 800 rpm,
2: you race the throttle (by hand) and see if the diaphram moves, it not we fix that too.

im pretty sure a 1994 does that.

RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-15-2014

But the live test requires the wheels to turn at least some amount or not? I'm not sure my car goes to 800 rpm when fully warm? But even if not, engine sounds good and never ever tries to die. What could be causing my car fully warmed not reaching 800? Another question, which of all lines in the tachometer would be 800 mark? Thermostat is new and installed following the instructions of fix kick, though not a 192F one just the 180F.

Or what you mean is revving the engine to 800 RPM and then watching the EGR main?


RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-15-2014

wheel turn rule starting in 1996, OBD2 . only
the thermostat, is bad, wrong, or upside down or air below it or bleed hole not forward. or is floating due to the 4mm lip not with rubber gasket.
the 180f is only mentioned because the engine needs to be at full temp,

1000 rpm from 0 to large mark
so is 5 over 1000.
or 1000 divided by 5, or 200 RPM per mark.
its not dead accurate , really toy grade.
but but the engine need to be fully hot to tune the spark or tune the idle dutycycle.

the live test,does not require moving. not yet, that came much later, and is PITA. read the 96 FSM steps with one real wheel off ground and him spinning the wheel, so the speedo moves, car in neutral .\
if fact this car , all EGR tests are easy. super easy compared to the others.

RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-15-2014

Ok the cold results are in and looks like the the Thermo is very dirty.

At the 2000K set on the DMM -    

At the 200K set on the DMM -    

I then warmed her up very good and thermo went as low as this

Thermo ohm reading warm test -    

Then I revved her thru the throtle linkage and ohms stayed the same. I'm begginig to get lost or am I in the right path?

Please advice. Have a good day.

RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-15-2014

46k, ohms, but did the ECU open the diaphram gunned??????. this car , the diaphram moves parked, and gunned. (raced)
46k is weak. 150F

if the diaphagm dont move, (problem 2) move it by hand , use a stick to not get burned, no gunning engine, just open it let engine shake and see if the sensor
goes low. to 10k, or less.

RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-16-2014

But the ohms are also not Ok in the cold test. They should be about 250k and mine did not even reach 200? So we could guess the EGRT is the culprit?

I did the Bark test.    

Actually I filmed it . I could feel exhaust coming from uncovered hole (but don't know if completely free of carbon) but if it barked loud? Well this is why I filmed it, so you could judge. I also filmed the MAIN being moved by hand so you could hear it and judge if return spring is doing its job.

The car was well warmed up mat least 180F for sure, my wife had just returned from school and car was never turned off, plus these last mornings have been very warm.

Back to the EGRT ohms, when I raced (gunned) engine via the throttle linkage at the TB, ohms stayed the same, 46k no change at all. My wife even did it via the accelerator, and no change.

RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-16-2014

great videos, can i use them.. nice showing the vacuum port block trick
very nicely done. that egr main, is that far tube free, that far nipple is the EGR MOD bark tube. it must not be clogged
does car have CAT converter?
nice good action on that main, its moving 100% but only vacuum test remains to prove it really works.
ok, lets work the vacuum side. Always do this in this order but backwards works too... sure.
seem the live test fails.
so what tools do you have, DMM,. yes, vacuum hand pump, nice, vacuum gage, good.
depending on tools in hand you can proceed many ways, there are ways to cheat, sure, ill pretend you have no tools.
ok , the egr main
the DIY no tools, (i dont like it but...) vacuum leak down test.
press the diaphragm in 100% the way, then with wet finger, cover the nipple end.
then release the diaphragm, it will move a tad but will not close as it sucks on your finger. this is very crude. but can work. many guys do just this, im extreme, i like to do 8 inches vacuum and no leak down at all, zero. or its bad. tiny cracks never stay tiny, is my reason..
ok valve main back, and its passes the stall test.
if it does that, then lets wake it up
next remove the hose on the top front right of plenum (evap vsv solenoid valve) this is a hard vacuum at idle it not fix that.
now you have a free vacuum sources. run a hose from that to the egr main, the engine stalls (do so engine running ,keep hose kinked until ready. (800 is not 400 rpm or stalls)
ok the far side vacuum works, and all exhaust side. great.
now the EGR MOD, connect that test vacuum to the front side, P nipple, the nipple that that goes to the EGR VSV. valve. solenoid.
again i keep my test hose kinked until i want it to suck. so release the kink and the EGR main valve must suck back and stall or the MOD is bad.
if the mod valve allows the main to suck back (open) then that path is ok, mostly,
remove the egr vsv hose on the P side running, feel if there is vaccum at the nipple there on the VSV at idle , it must be be so.
then race the engine fast, and see if this vsv opens and sucks air, the 89-95' year cars all suck air, (in 1996 you must drive over say over 1 mph or turn the rear tire by hand (yes silly huh)
if the vsv does not open check the voltage on the pins(use backprobe needles)
the vsv runs backwards from thinking, (oddly)

12v at idle, 0v , when racing engine , no need for driver, just by hand on TB throttle crank.
if the valve fails to open disconnect it genlty (has locks) and check the coil for about 35ohms.
mine read infinity on my 96' the coil was burned out.

if you have a vacuum gauge this is easier
and if you have a hand vacuum pump , most have the gauge built in.
we can do 2 vacuum checks and know whats happening.

for example, is can use vacuum "T" fittings added to the lines and check to see if the VSV even opens at all in 1 test.

on your 94 what should happen is that when you are parked, 0 mph ,hot engine.
the ECU will open the EGR VSV , off idle, it watches the idle TPS switch, and when it goes to 5v, it knows you left idle . and commands the VSV OPEN. 0v is open. across coil.
At 0v on coil (across ) the VSV opens and sucks vacuum to the MOD valve.
the mod valve modulates the EGR main, with exhaust back pressure.
we will work the mod valve if necessary.
but it works strangely , and uses the back pressure from the CAT to sense engine load. more load more EGR flow.

RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-16-2014

Yes sir feel free to use them. As you feel good helping me, I feel good helping you helping others.

I read more later and recheck all steps.


RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-16-2014

if the stall test pass and the vacuum does same , hand applied to the EGR nipple then we need to monitor from this point backwards.

the MODULATOR , defaults to DEAD. this is NORMAL.
this one graphic shows all the rules, to get EGR alive. (control side)

see those 3 Nipples, P (ported vacuum) and Q (what i call queer vacuum) and the B port BARK port.
if there is no CAT on the car, the bark pressure will be near zero.
and this causes, the B port to be dead.
if the B port is dead the MOD is dead. at the Q port.
This graphic shows how this happens.
with a vacuum gauge at the P hose, (disconnected,) if you see full vacuum at P hose, racing engine , this is a working ECU, TB port and VSV valve.
one test and you know the electro vacuum side is ok.
but if there is no back pressure at B the V valve is stuck open and no vacuum ever reaches port Q. and the EGR will be dead , doing any live test.

[Image: modulator-sectioned.JPG]

RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-16-2014

Ok. I'll retest again this weekend. I'm getting close to solving this thanks to you. So in the Bark test did it sound ok to you in the video? Yes the this car has a Cat converter.

Like I said there was exhaust coming though not sure if the right amount to activate Mod valve via B nipple?