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+--- Thread: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH (/thread-flickering-cel-runs-super-rich)
Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - repsolrider - 08-31-2023
Hello,
First time posting to a forum. I am having some trouble with my sidekick and I've been stumped for a while.
1995 Suzuki Sidekick JX, FED emissions model (non California), 16v, manual transmission, 130K miles
Got the car a year ago, I had to do a lot of work to get it to where it is. PO had pulled the engine and rebuilt the top end, changed every sensor under the hood and swapped the intake manifold with the one that has external EGR lines.
After I put everything back together, I mechanically timed the engine to cylinder #4 (lined up all the marks) and then timed the spark to cylinder #1.
Got everything installed and the vehicle started right up, still starts and idles fine to this day... but it runs soo rich the exhaust smells like pure gasoline and it has almost no power at all. I can move it around under its own power fine, but it wont climb a hill or drive in traffic. Turning the engine with the spark plugs out spews fuel like crazy, way worse than any normal engine I have ever seen (31 years of mechanic experience)
Yes I have spark to all four plugs, good spark.
Compression test was good
185-195 on all cylinders
Tested the injectors (Noid light) all fired properly
Brand new MAF (Have not tested it with a meter or tried a third one) no change when swapped back and forth with old one.
Pulled the ECU assuming the CAPs were blown, looks perfect inside. (should I change them anyway? Have pictures but can't post them, too large file size)
Tried to pull codes (no CEL when engine is running) to see what is going on... This is where I am stuck.
When I put the jumper across the plug near the battery with 6 pin slots (jumping b to d) the check engine light flickers like crazy and does not stop (not flashing like a code signal, flickering). With key on engine off (KOEO) the CEL is steady. Key on engine running (KOER) no check engine light.
Idle is pretty smooth but rpm does wander a little, between 600-900rpm, but mostly steady at 800ish.
Checked for vacuum leaks, could not find any and the vacuum gauge read normal and steady (15-20 in Hg at idle if I remember correctly)
Brand new fuel pressure regulator, it does work. I have ordered a Schrader valve so I can modify the fuel rail cap for a pressure test, I doubt that is going to be an issue though.
Not sure what else to do. So I guess my question/issue is how do I correct the flickering CEL (what might this be, bad ecu?) and what do you think is going on with my fuel mixture?
I have videos and pictures of everything listed but they are all too large to attached to this post. Any other info you need let me know. I appreciate any help you can provide.
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - fixkick - 09-15-2023
95 is OBD1, 96up is OBD2. (apples/oranges different) fed EPA forced this huge change,. the intake is now 96 over 95 engine, with great mono port EGR!
the CEL lamp must glow key on, or the lamp is burned out or seller removed the lamp,.(evil)\ but yes lamp is good your case.
next.
yes CAPS dry out, and no clues visual there, they love to. this old. 20 year life span is cap spec, and if dry the PCM keeps rebooting endlessly. and burns tons of fuel.
flickers like crazy.. is PCM booting and crashing
the huge cap in the corner is dead. they just love top fail an $1 part dead.
they fail, dry, leak or crack or explode. and just dry inside is super common.
only real ESR cap meter knows the truth. (a tool) 50uF, not 1uF dry, see? (example)
this PCM has 3 modes (gross)
- normal
- limphome
- failsafe. ( you are here) this mode is crazy super gross mode, the car may move a but and burns tons if fuel. even fouls spark plug
- (besides) hot and cold normal modes etc)
c103 is bad.
(or more) but the corner cap, is first offender.
when c103 goes dry , 12vdc noise (huge on cars) hits the PCM voltage regulator on its PCB, and the reg goes NUTs.
this causes 5vdc reg rails there to drop out over and over and CPU inside reboots over and over and wants to land in failsafe mode.
Failsafe is so crude it does not use the MAF at all, only throttle angle and RPM. the worlds most crude,. ECU./<< avoid being here for sure.
think of fail safe like this,. (reasons)
IF massive failures of ECU and car stuck next to a cliff of ice.(horror) the engine starts and you save yourself by backing up.
the CEL lamp flashing codes on Demand, must work, fix that first.!
good luck to you, and sorry to late to respond
im restoring a 95 jeep wrangler now.
super busy here, a fortune in new parts.
my jeep
![[Image: 548_Readytorun3.jpeg]](https://fixkick.com/forum/gallery/548_Readytorun3.jpeg)
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - fixkick - 09-15-2023
yes measure the 5vdc pin on ECU(PCM)
it must not be dead.
or bouncing like mad. (voltage jumping)
this is my best act of trying to trace out secret schematics on the PCB 16valve version (use with not guaranteed)
see B6 pin?
do not let IC7 go NUTs, (wild) OR THERE WILL BE NO JOY EVER.
![[Image: 70EB0-16V-5VDC.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/ECU/secrets/70EB0-16V-5VDC.jpg)
d107 zener diode IS THE ONLY PROTECTION FROM FOLKS HOT WIRING SENSORS, DEAD WRONG BAD ACTS. I do not have p/n for d107, 1N47xx
JUST ONE FAILED CAP OF 3 OR more possible.
many parts inside are not sold now., IC7 is not. nor IC17
transistors yes, sold.
but caps are 90% of fails and 9% for injector drivers. and 1% (fate bad luck)
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - repsolrider - 09-16-2023
Thank you soo much for getting back to me. I really appreciate the feedback! I have been out of town the past two weeks so I haven't looked at the vehicle in a bit. I will start by replacing all caps in the ECM and go from there. Should be able to get them ordered this week and I will respond with results.
I was able to get the images resized. Attached are images of the ECU. Doesn't really matter but very clean inside.
Very nice Jeep. I have spent a lot of time working on XJs. Great vehicles, lots of fun.
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - fixkick - 10-05-2023
that ECU looks new. to me, not 28 years old. caps look fresh, not even dust there. wow.
im thinking dirty injectors, try Techron fuel injector cleaner in the tank, run it see if it cleans out.
yes ,I had XJ jeeps from 88 to 99, even new ones,
running rich.
fuel pressure at 36psi keyon, and idle 30psi. it drops PSI.
then key off and pressure holds, leak down test, holds over 25psi for one minute, if not injector leaks or the check ball valve in tank pump is bad.
there is and injector balance test that is not easy to do DIY.
best is get the injector set clean, in shops that do reverse flow ultra sonic cleaning, the injectors have 10micron screens, so....
http://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/reg-graph-mpi-g.jpg
measure pressure at the RAIL.
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - repsolrider - 10-28-2023
Hello,
Sorry for the slow reply. The ECU is in great shape, looked new. I did change the caps, but the engine still runs very rich. Very low power but perfect idle. I am currently checking the voltages and points you recommended before. I ordered the parts your page suggested for modifying the fuel rail cap to test fuel pressure. That is what I'll be checking after the ECU voltages. All the injectors are "refurbished new" from a reliable source, however there is some question if they are the correct ones at all. Previous owner had a hard time finding replacements. Next steps are checking ECU voltages and testing fuel pressure. I will let you know how it goes! Thanks for the support!
Background Info
Previous owner (who I know personally) has been chasing this issue for years so almost everything has been changed or rebuilt. Vehicle was operating perfect (2018, timed it myself when he first bought it) until the thermostat failed and he drove it a good distance while overheating (dumb). He replaced and rebuilt the whole top end, still did not run correctly. He slowly changed every sensor on the vehicle. Then changed the entire intake manifold to '96. Still over fueling. Swapped all 4 injectors, no change. Attempted to set the ignition timing, he broke the distributor hold down bolt and had to pull the engine to repair. sat for two years indoors. This is when I got the vehicle (I have been involved the whole time BTW. I have the tools haha). Repaired the bolt, replace the clutch and put the engine back with all new vacuum lines. I did replace all the fuel in the system, fully dropped and drained the tank. Have not replaced the filter, but too much fuel is rarely a symptom of that.
EGR valve, injectors, MAF sensor, fuel pressure reg... all brand new. Distributor, wires and plugs all new, Great compression on all four cylinders, but going to test again just incase.
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - fixkick - 12-08-2023
(10-28-2023, 10:13 AM)repsolrider Wrote: Hello,sorry so slow me 95 car with 96 parts. sure, EGR is ok to do that if done right. using 96 parts.(mech)
Sorry for the slow reply. The ECU is in great shape, looked new. I did change the caps, but the engine still runs very rich. Very low power but perfect idle. I am currently checking the voltages and points you recommended before. I ordered the parts your page suggested for modifying the fuel rail cap to test fuel pressure. That is what I'll be checking after the ECU voltages. All the injectors are "refurbished new" from a reliable source, however there is some question if they are the correct ones at all. Previous owner had a hard time finding replacements. Next steps are checking ECU voltages and testing fuel pressure. I will let you know how it goes! Thanks for the support!
Background Info
Previous owner (who I know personally) has been chasing this issue for years so almost everything has been changed or rebuilt. Vehicle was operating perfect (2018, timed it myself when he first bought it) until the thermostat failed and he drove it a good distance while overheating (dumb). He replaced and rebuilt the whole top end, still did not run correctly. He slowly changed every sensor on the vehicle. Then changed the entire intake manifold to '96. Still over fueling. Swapped all 4 injectors, no change. Attempted to set the ignition timing, he broke the distributor hold down bolt and had to pull the engine to repair. sat for two years indoors. This is when I got the vehicle (I have been involved the whole time BTW. I have the tools haha). Repaired the bolt, replace the clutch and put the engine back with all new vacuum lines. I did replace all the fuel in the system, fully dropped and drained the tank. Have not replaced the filter, but too much fuel is rarely a symptom of that.
EGR valve, injectors, MAF sensor, fuel pressure reg... all brand new. Distributor, wires and plugs all new, Great compression on all four cylinders, but going to test again just incase.
what are the CEL blink codes? using the diagnostic jumper DLC under the hood,, mine is just behind headlight right, DLC. per my DLC pages .
so all 4 injector leak.? or just 1.
Yes I too am tool rich,, a huge cache of tool.s for 58+ years. 1965 to now saved, even one of the first ever made timing lights from Heathkit. (and still works)
omg broke the bolt on DISTIB. very nasty, and has low torque spec, as all aluminum parts do. the torque pages is only website. fully. 72 inch pounds !
inch lbs in not Ft lbs, (not saying you do not know that this is for others reading about torque)
over injecting has many causes.
the injection problem as you know is caused by just a few things.
1: fuel pressure at 60psi , FPR bad or fuel return line pinched closed.
2: injectors are just plane old bad and leak. injector cleaner , Chevron Techron , in the tank. tired.
3: ECU is bad (most are not) but if bad sure. but 99% of the time it is bad inputs the PCM/ECU, it is after all just a computer.(robust)
4: bad inputs to ECU a to z
a: ECT STUCK AT -40f TEMP READINGS, IT IS BAD. 300 OHMS HOT 180F IS SPEC, AND MOST BE. very easy to test , replacing all sensors invite wrong sensor installed.
b: SPARK TIMING WAY OFF, IS IT? TIMING LIGHT TIME. USE the , timing freeze jumper at the DLC to do that. per hood up sticker spec,BTDC degree spec.
c: spark gap at 0.028" never use factory NGK, .045" do not do that, set the gap to spec, this is not HEI rated spark
d: cam time way way off. or e: caused.
e: Crank pulley loose and the key way is now WRECKED< causing D, above. see this>>>> http://fixkick.com/t-belt/damage/index.html
F: MAF bad. if goes dead the ECU goes to limp home mode and goes super rich, doing that. test the MAF key , on and idle and then WOT it for huge rise to 4vdc , throttle crank hard for 3sec max. (a 2 person test)
g: I hope I got them all.
the top cause of rich (for sure limphome and not looking for DTC errors first)
are high fuel pressure
ECT bad or the wrong one put in, my ECT chart covers all this.
MAF dead, if using cold air kits, (nasty crap) and now the MAF bounces at ever inch of road. the MAF dies fast. it must be fully stock and secure to last.
limphome mode emulates the dead sensor and does so very poorly, and goes rich. use the DLC Diag jumper. first
the 6 pin is there. G16b , 16 valves , has a MAF
https://fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html#gen2
you can even drive with the DIGG jumper in place to see if flash codes change or even flash codes go dead. as bad ECU do.(bad caps)
drive and see code 12, endless is the goal, here.
OBD1 is not smart at all like OBD2. dumb , it only sets codes when say a sensor is dead, stuck low or stuck high
It mostly never tells if a sensor is weak ever.
EGR excepted.
how this helps and sorry so slow. me.
good luck to you and I hope it is running like new soon, I sure can be. 1 failure at a time.
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - fixkick - 12-08-2023
The EGR mode must be down so that , the EGR does not allow fresh air to suck into the plenum/
the 96 EGR uses what I call the new MONO port EGR TB
this EGR mod needs these parts.
96 intake man
96 TB (mono port is here. see this????>>>>> http://fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html
here too
http://fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95/secret-ports.jpg
see that port, use 11mm gun bore brush to clean it.
as you can see mono port is on the vacuum side, and must not ever leak air. end to End EGR path there.
96 tube 50 , TB to man.
drawing 2 is clear for 86 up. G16B
EGR failures can SUCK air, and if it ever does, by hook or crook the MAF is now useless. with ILLEGAL unMETER air into the plenum.
oops. the 96 EGR has the Thermo probe
the 95 car has no such thing(maybe) so fails EGR endless. code 53 error EGR.
some older ECu ,used a EGR map sensor to detect dead EGR, not the EGRT sensor,
the calif car and FEd cars used different EGR test sensor methods.
the top take away here is no leaks.
if EGR fails, code 53 most cars never go to limp home. but ive not seen all 50 ECU used world wide here.
RE: Flickering CEL, runs SUPER RICH - fixkick - 12-08-2023
parts #51/x2 and #6 missing or cracked 3 gaskets must not ever suck AIR .! The EGR can be defeated too for tests. unplug hose to EGR nipple and GOLF tee the hose so the hose can not SUCK AIR. and drive.
drawing 2, 96 ,intake all.
ouch 95 or 96 injectors now? swaps must be done correctly.
if the car does have and old EGRT , thermo sensor now, 95 like, we can fool it to work, using 3 cent resistor so the EGR test always passes
92-95 can be. ECU years.