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+--- Thread: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch (/thread-need-to-know-about-bypassing-the-fuel-pump-relay-to-a-manual-toggle-switch)
Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - YemayasMoon - 05-06-2013
89 Manual Kick, 4x4, JX 1.6 ltr 8 valve USA
My Fuel Relay has gone bad; I believe. First, Jr (the name of my kick) revved up and down during cold start till warmed up, then started losing power uphill, then ran at start up intermittently, (would start, then stall, and then not start for a few tries) and now will not start at all. This has been going on till now; not starting at all, over the past few months.
I did the listen test; turned ignition on, then went to listen at the open gas cap. No sound coming from pump at all.
I cannot afford a new relay right now, and Jr is my only ride, so must try to rewire the pump; bypassing the relay, to a cheap manual toggle switch. Can I do this? And if so, which wires would I need to attach to a toggle switch?
Reason I ask, is because most vehicles use the auto toggle switch within the relay only two times each use: turning the pump on at ignition start up, then turning it off at ignition shut down.
Is this the same with my Kick?
HOW TO WIRE A FRANKEN-KICKTOR. - fixkick - 05-06-2013
My big mistake. Not asking for VIN at get go.. 24years of hacks or Registration dont match VIN? and not photos ( 2 door body shell dont answer that)
This car was hacked. You got me!
Quote: The FRANKen KICK or FRANKenKicktor ! : "i rewired the ignition key, as I rewired that to a farm-tractor ignition"its frankenKICKtor , and all time first .
the below is all a total waste, (deleted) because the car is far from stock now, wired like ford tractor, of some kind/?????
so with hindsite, now 20/20
What is the VIN number.
show engine photo.
show main relay photo, connected.
IT'S NOT STOCK AT ALL , SO CANT HELP WITH OUT THE FACTS OF THIS MODIFICATION. NOT AT ALL.
RE: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - YemayasMoon - 05-06-2013
89 Manual Kick, 4x4, JX 1.6 ltr 8 valve USA
Hi Kick, good to see ya again.
Okay, lots has happened to Jr since you helped me the last time; a few years ago on the other forum.
Over the last 2 years, I replaced the Oxy sensor, put in a new PCV Valve, New Radiator, New timing belt and kit, New front engine seal, New valve stem seals. Jr has always burned oil on cold start up, and I wanted to cure the issue with the valve stem seals.
Since the mechanic did this, Jr has still smoked, in fact worse than ever, and he never tightened the valves once they were adjusted, with the lock nuts, so while I was driving, the valves all backed off, and I barely made it home from a trip a ways away from home.
Then the front pulley broke off (harmonic balancer)
A different mechanic replaced the pulley, had to rebuild a new key for the pulley, installed another new timing belt and kit, fixed the valve clearances, and got me back on the road. At that time, Jr's compression was not too good... I think it was all between 115 and 120 between them all, but even with those compressions, Jr has been running fine; except for the start up smoking. I guess the valve stem seals never seated.
2 weeks ago, the heaving smoking at start up suddenly went down to a bare minimum, and I was thrilled! (Yes, the Oil is topped up fine, and in fact I'm running synthetic now)
Then a couple days later, I took a drive up one of the mountains here, and filled up my gas tank before the climb. Suddenly I lost a LOT of power going up the grades; often had to shift down to 2nd or even 1st, just to make it up (should have been able to make it up those grades in 3rd) It was NOT off road; just up a highway here that crosses a peak.
When I got the bottom side of the mountain, I stopped to make a call and had a hard time starting Jr again. He finally started, just before my battery was about to die out, so I drove home, stopping (leaving Jr running) along the way, to get some fuel cleaner, thinking I must have gotten some bad gas on the other side of the mountain, when I filled up.
Since then, I was able to start Jr 3 or 4 times again, (having problems though, getting him started each time) to run to the store and back; and now he will not start at all. I have to charge my battery back up once the rain stops here, as it went down while trying to start Jr. the last time.
And this is where I am at now. Thinking it may be the fuel pump relay... because it seems no fuel is getting to the injectors to spark. Engine turns over fine, but no start.
FRANKEN-KICKTOR - fixkick - 05-07-2013
89 Manual Kick, 4x4, JX 1.6 ltr 8 valve USA 2DOOR UNKNOWN TRANSMISSION.
AFTER knowing its hacked, all my posts are totally useless... all..
so i deleted them,
it will be impossible to help, (not hands on) unless, you send in your photos. of all these hacks:
1: engine right side, (of TB right side, the side not on spark plug side )
2:VIN number
3: photo of hacked Relay posted far below.
4: photos of all hacked EFI wiring, all wires cut, in the whole EFI , need photos of all hacked cut or molested from stock .
RE: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - YemayasMoon - 05-07-2013
Just went out to check the CEL codes. Did the paperclip in the DLC. No Check Engine Light at all. Does not come on at all. The only lights that DID come on, were the Brake and Battery lights. After I checked that, I decided to push the clutch, and Jr started - for about one second, then died. No more start after that. Again, this is making me think it's the Main Relay - Fuel Pump relay....
Also, I had forgotten to note here, that my Check Engine Light did come on a few times a week or so ago, but it just just glowed, with no code; it would glow like that for a few miles, then would go out. Used to be, it would come on while driving, putting out the 1-2 code. Would do that for a month or so, then quit for a while.
P.S. I was robbed a year ago, when I became disabled from a fall and was staying at my friend's, of everything I owned; furniture, tools, EVERYTHING (lost my home as well), so I have no tools any more. Luckily I had a paperclip in my purse, to do the CEL test. lolol If Jr had been there, and not in the shop at the time, I'm sure he would have also been robbed from me. Literally, Jr and my dog are all I have left, and the clothes I had on when I went to my friend's place.
Franken_KickTOR, fueling ,etc. - fixkick - 05-07-2013
the dead CEL lamp needs to be corrected.
if the ecu is telling you there is a major problem,. how can being blind help you,
i dont need the lamp personally (got a meter and scanner ) but you need that lamp to work.
it's just a fact.
RE: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - fixkick - 05-08-2013
point 2
smoke. at end of tail pipe tip, rear. ( smoke from other areas are other problems)
1: black smoke, is flooding and or excess fuel unburned, a black cloud, can be seen more clearly on motors missing the CAT, is your's missing? the CAT.
the three way catalyst?
the cat is in front of muffler and below the exhaust header (manifold) collector end.?
2: steam, is white and goes away fast, just like a tea pot in the kitchen. (a bad head gasket)
3: burning oil is white. and smells just like oil dripped from the dip stick to the exhaust manifold, and linger seemingly for ever.... very unique.
which do you have?. and when, under what conditions.?
1: only cold , only first start?
2: hot and cold (yes, when it ran last) dead motor now.?
3: only going down a hill hot in gear and , with foot off gas pedal, i look in rear view mirror and see the huge white cloud? (valve seals!)
4: at all times. i see oil burn cloud.
on old cars there are 100s of questions and tests. which to attack first, is hard to say, unless all facts , symptoms and evidence are presented.
1: smoke? when ? and /?/// above.......
2: compression is low, was it done by you , a mechanic , and if latter, he failed you, if he failed to do the wet tests. and do it hot and WOT and sparks all pulled.
3: CEL LAMP , id get that working first. due to your stated , odd issues with that.
but nostart can be addressed here.
it can only be 3 things.
http://www.fixkick.com/nostart.html
RE: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - fixkick - 05-08-2013
lost power answer:
lost power can be many things.
the valve lash set wrong, (it was) and hot the gaps go to zero and the valve fails to close and the compression drops and power drops. all normal for bad service. (this burns valves to a crisp , BTW)
if compression is good hot.
then a melted CAT? if power returns cold , the CAT is not melted, once melted inside, it kills power full time and can get so bad car will never start again.
the CAT can continue to melt running with HUGE RICH fuel mixtures.
next is limphome, if the ECU drops to limphome , the power is cut greatly, but with a dead CEL lamp , how would you learn this vital fact?
Limphome likes to melt CATS too... BTW.
bad spark, if the spark degrades in any way, you lose power. (do a 60,000 mile full tune up now)
last is bad fueling. and is always last to check. if the injection rates are too much or too little, the power can drop. (this takes careful diagnostic testing)
and last but not least here is my no/low buck solutions page.
$ zero dollar or low cost things, that you can do to find engine problems. SEE NO TOOLS SECTION !
http://www.fixkick.com/tools/no_tools.html
RE: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - YemayasMoon - 05-09-2013
I'm gonna have to wait till the first of June to get a voltmeter and a compression test gauge so I can do it myself.
Yes, Jr is a real Suzuki, not a clone. The Fuse box cover (same as you pictured above) is still there, and all the fuses are good, and yes, on checking, the Diagfuse was in there. I took it out now.
I guess all I can do right now is to unbolt the ECU from the bracket so that's done, and wait till June 1st to be able to do the tests you have described.
point 2
smoke. at end of tail pipe tip, rear. ( smoke from other areas are other problems)
1: black smoke, is flooding and or excess fuel unburned, a black cloud, can be seen more clearly on motors missing the CAT, is your's missing? the CAT.
the three way catalyst?
the cat is in front of muffler and below the exhaust header (manifold) collector end.?
When I first got Jr, 12 years ago, he used to burn black smoke out the exhaust on start up, and that would stop when he was warmed up. Doesn't burn black anymore. Yes, the CAT is still on Jr.
2: steam, is white and goes away fast, just like a tea pot in the kitchen. (a bad head gasket)
3: burning oil is white. and smells just like oil dripped from the dip stick to the exhaust manifold, and linger seemingly for ever.... very unique.
Now, on start up, Jr burns bluish white smoke out the exhaust, and if there's no wind, becomes enveloped in his smoke till he warms up, then no more smoke. That usually takes about 10 minutes.
which do you have?. and when, under what conditions.?
1: only cold , only first start?
2: hot and cold (yes, when it ran last) dead motor now.?
3: only going down a hill hot in gear and , with foot off gas pedal, i look in rear view mirror and see the huge white cloud? (valve seals!)
4: at all times. i see oil burn cloud.
on old cars there are 100s of questions and tests. which to attack first, is hard to say, unless all facts , symptoms and evidence are presented.
1: smoke? when ? and /?/// above.......
2: compression is low, was it done by you , a mechanic , and if latter, he failed you, if he failed to do the wet tests. and do it hot and WOT and sparks all pulled.
The compression test was done by a mechanic. Hopefully the compression gauge is not too expensive; if not, I will get one on June 1st and do the test myself.
3: CEL LAMP , id get that working first. due to your stated , odd issues with that.
RE: Need to Know About Bypassing the Fuel Pump Relay to a Manual Toggle Switch - fixkick - 05-09-2013
all the tools are very cheap at harbor freight, just open the box before , walking out door, see if there is no damage. 12,000 to china the trip can do damage.
case in point, seen the needles on gages, fall off. i buy them as backup to my good tools or for fittings, etc.
one tool that is great is the vacuum hand pump (brass) but the fitting for brakes are useless. feels like chewing gum , so i use my Mityvac for brake work and HF for true vacuum testings.
fi the blue smoke goes away, than all is well. old engines, will smoke and burn oil after parking. it leaks down from the valves stems , that are well worn. (the valve seals really don't stop this) most old cars smoke , it it burn oil, unless $2000 new engine is only your list....
the black smoke is the rich cold mixture and seems way to rich to me, on a good system the black is like a few seconds then goes away.
but not your car....
on a car this old, it can be , many failures. (never seen one that was not, after 24 years)
1:; CEL lamp just burned out, the cheap bulbs last 750 hrs, max. if diag fuse is left, in that burns the lamp out in just 2 years. flashing 12s, 2 hr per day.
normal life span would be 31 year life of bulb (4seconds per day 1 trip per day) if 2 trips a day 15 life time..... so..... seems time for a new one.
a #18 GE bulb is what it is.
2: high fuel pressure, causing flooding, why no look at spark tips for free, see the evidence of horrid rich fuel injections.
3: ECT bad, and setting , fuel for Alaska temperatures.
4: you can fix the CEL for free. or $1 lamp,w/ only a screwdriver to check bulb or to drop the speedo , CEL bulb holder. (what if the CEL had a DTC message for you, imagine that...)
5: It may be your compression is ok, and the mechanic, messed up, sad you must spend $20 to find his error. Compression wrong, on all 4 tells, me the belt is timed wrong. that makes all timing wrong, cam and spark, and cause the ECU to go a little nuts. like that.
no starts are , simple,. (bad compression, wrong valve lash, wrong cam timing)
bad spark. (weak , timed wrong, or the above, remember the cam drives the dizzy, like dead horse and wagon the wagon is useless) free too, to see of the spark is good. ( but timing light $15)
fueling, there are simple tests to check fueling, both are free ,on 8v. spark tips, colors, and smell and dripping fuel after nostart. or looking at the injector , with eyes, all 100% free of cash.
I wont count a spark plug socket as that is needed by all DIY tuneups.
on an old car like this , a working CEL lamp , is a necessity. in fact, can tell you the ECU is dead, and locked in to backup mode flooding for ever.
wont know , until you look.