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+--- Thread: Need some help (/thread-need-some-help)
Need some help - sina27 - 09-26-2021
hello
i just bought a 1992 geo tracker 4wd 5 speed. california car.
Having some issues - it smokes a lot while warming up and te idle is kind of wonky. The car is missing a catalytic converter.
The seller gave me a "egr valve temp sensor" which is new, but he didnt know how to install it. the egr valve thart is currently installed has the sensor, but the wire is cut, and i dont know where the wire for the sensor is supposed to connect to. cant find a port anywhere.
another thing is the wiring above the transmission. what is the wire harness that screws into the top of the transmission meant for? its plugged in to the harness, but the 2 black wires got disconnected. can this cause any issues?
im trying to figure out why the car is smoking and idling weird, and if the egr valve sensor or the wire coming from the tranmission is the cause.
any advise would be greattly appreciated
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-26-2021
(09-26-2021, 12:59 PM)sina27 Wrote: hello
i just bought a 1992 geo tracker 4wd 5 speed. California car.
Having some issues - it smokes a lot while warming up and the idle is kind of wonky. The car is missing a catalytic converter.
The seller gave me a "egr valve temp sensor" which is new, but he didnt know how to install it. the egr valve thar is currently installed has the sensor, but the wire is cut, and i dont know where the wire for the sensor is supposed to connect to. cant find a port anywhere.
another thing is the wiring above the transmission. what is the wire harness that screws into the top of the transmission meant for?
its plugged in to the harness, but the 2 black wires got disconnected. can this cause any issues?
im trying to figure out why the car is smoking and idling weird, and if the egr valve sensor or the wire coming from the transmission is the cause.
any advise would be greatly appreciated
this is easy stuff,, they ake 2 engines 1992, both 8v and 16v and in both calif cars and FED cars USA, (are you USA or CANANDA)
the EGR, is calif or fed too,, one uses the thermal proble (sensor ) the other uses engine vacuum (MAP) to conduct the EGR test via the ECU,
so what matter on a new car, is calif or fed car, then near 30 years later, what ECU is there. only. wrong ECU happen.
also the EGR harness rear of engine is not the same on both cars.
To ID a car the hood sticker is first. open hood look up see large hand sized sticker , the words CALIFornial at the bottom tell you DAY1 deliverly of FED or CALIF car. actual
The ECU next tells this as do all related harnesses. (lots there are more world wide)
is your car 2doors or 4.?
ok 4wd,
5speed, are said wires above 5speed or 4wd transfer case, (answer is both) 5speed reverse switch missing kills dead the reverse lamps)white.
the transfer case is , 2 switchs (4wd mode, and low rage gear) this tells the ECU how to do for fuel mix (fine tuned 4wd ), and the dash lights, cluster 4wd , indicators.
Smoke comes in 3 flavors (1/2 joking) (CEL = check engine lamp)
1: BLACK = UN BURNED FUEL RICH RUNNING, (CEL LAMP GLOWS RuNNINIG) KEY ON CEL GLOWS, THEN START ENGINE AND CEL LAMP GOES OUT.
2: WHITE SMOKE AND SMELLS LIKE BURNING OIL, THIS BAD RINGS ARE VALVE SEALS. AND TANKS A LONG TIME TO DISSIPATE.
3: WHITE SMOKE, IS STEAM, SMELLS NAST, LIKE ANTIFREEZE AND IS, AND IS CRACKED BLOCK OR HEAD OR ANY WAY FOR WATER TO HIT THE COMPBUSTION CHAMBERS.
AND THIS STEAM GOES AWAY FAST, IF YOU KILL THE ENGINE AT THE KEY. UNLIKE #3
all wires told so far will no cause any of that. above. (EGR we will discuss more after telling me the answers to green questions)
the EGR sensor thermal probe only is for code 51 DTC EGR test, if the DTC errors are 51 this is it. (diagnostic jumper shows code 12 = means good, all others not)
most ECU will also show code 53 error DTC for missing proble sensor, or using CALIF ECU on FEDERAL car or the reverse.
CALIF has its one SMOG department called CARB, (or California ARB air research board) and they dictated allt his since 1989 up. EGR and exhaust manifolds (16v) are not the same.
NO CAT, (it's ok ) The CAT missing , means the EGR valve is totally disabled. This system (old and super wonky design) used CAT back pressure (small) to run the EGR modulation flows.
so there is no EGR on this car and will fail 51 codes. if driving far, 20miles on hot 180f + engine, when full hot and normal engine temps the EGR test then runs and then fails 51 DTC
the ECU smog test checks that the EGR opens while cruising never at idle and never at WOT (wide open throttle)
in your case just make sure the EGR is closed, fully inside or the engine stalls or runs at 400rpm and shakes like a wet dog (woof woof)
I hope you are not living in calif. as as the STATE smog testers will fail that car in 1sec.flat no cat present, (no blame me) some state(most) now exempt cars this old. (too old it is)
lots of cars in calif are FED, driven from other states into CALF and is OK, that.
idle will not be smooth until engine gets hot and idle controls begin (180f thermostat works) and at 150f this engine transitions TO HOT NORMAL MODE.
GOOD COMPRESSION? 150 ON 8V IS IT 8V?
NO WATER IN OIL, OIL IN PAN LOOKS AMBER NOT EVER LIKE CHOCOLATE MILk EVER.
ecu NOT IN LIMPHOME MODE, CODE 12, MEANS THAT.
FPR NOT BAD (CAUSED FUEL PRESSURE TO NUTS AND NO MORE REGULATION)
8V ENGINE HAS 1 INJECTOR IN TBI
16V (ENGINE) HAS 4 INJECTORS MPI IF ONE LEAKS IDLE FAILS. SHAKES.
NOW SOME SECRETS
TRACKER = GM = GEO AND GM USES RPO TAG ON THE GLOVE BOX LID
https://fixkick.com/specs/RPO/RPO.html
This is my microflims, (inverted by me) to see all codes, for RPO are GM AS BUILT CODES, for tracker only here.,
even canadian version , calif, fed and transmission used new, and well lots more, all in the glove box inside of front door of box. sticker large
then this
the hood tag, when new , day1 this is king, Until hackers hit. OFF MY HUGE TAG PAGE.
https://fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/IDentification.html
![[Image: Geo91CaL.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/images/Geo91CaL.jpg)
how many doors on car?
8 valve or 16v? TBI or MPI same meanings.
does tag above show california if not IT IS FED only CAR ! (USA EPA code = FED) 8v only. TBI = 8valves.?
this take means FED + CALIF certified car.
and means is CALIF ECU. for sure, and vacuum hose routing.
good day to you and glad to help you any way I can and CHEERS!
\
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-26-2021
factoids
the new EGR in hand works on both engine, CAL or fed in the FED car real and real fed ECU there is no wires, to connect on FED.
it is because CALIF did not allow then vacuum drop test for EGR tests, then, only heat rise from the thermal probe, Calif probe)
The CAT missing makes the EGR modulator dead and as a result the EGR main too is dead. EGR 100% all dead end to end.
this EGR is like famous Rube Goldberg exhibits wiki him ,funny guy from old days. and Fair grounds etc.
the sensor is REGTS named by suzuk, i call it EGR thermo probe to be more clear.
no part 14 on yours. only on(89/90)
FED uses MAP
CALIF uses CALIF only (labeled part) and Calif only ECU to match.
the #4 exhaust port is the CAT back pressure Port, about 0 to 2PSI max and EGR is modulated at that input. MAP is vacuum or baro sensor (manifold air pressure same)
![[Image: egr-whole-deal1.jpg]](https://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/egr-whole-deal1.jpg)
my calif expanded test EGR page
https://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/egr-tests.html
the tests are complex and the injector of EGR gas paths can be a SUPER pain to clean and make work, so most now are DEAD.
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-26-2021
last
have you found the DLC yet, Diag logic connector
https://fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html
and insert the jumper and see if you get code 12? 12 = good,
this ECU only finds dead things, dead sensors. or dead EGR
not weak, nor any other great things modern ECU/PCM find and can do....
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-26-2021
in 1996 J18 engine DOHC, the EGR is now just just 1 simple electric motor valve, and all this bull above gone, same on all j20 up to, 2Liter/
RE: Need some help - sina27 - 09-27-2021
(09-26-2021, 09:31 PM)fixkick Wrote: in 1996 J18 engine DOHC, the EGR is now just just 1 simple electric motor valve, and all this bull above gone, same on all j20 up to, 2Liter/thanks for all that info, Kick.
To answer some of your questions: the car is a 2 door.
I am living in california and plan on smogging it. the owner said it was smogged months ago before the cat broke and was removed. I will buy a cat and have someone install it soon.
I believe this is a FED car. Most likely 8 valve, but not 100%. Below are a few photos (sticker, motor, egr valve):
https://imgur.com/a/9GmgfHZ
The wire that is disconnected is actually on the transmission case, not transfer case. the 4wd indicators work, so i assume that wiring is connected.
ANOTHER NOTE: The check engine light is not on. I dont know how to pull codes. I have an OBD2 reader with me but i dont think that will work with this car, correct?
REGARDING THE EGR:
so since my car seems to not be california, are you saying that the EGR valve on it is the wrong one, because it has the thermo probe sensor sticking out?
should i get a different egr valve for it?
when the car is idle, if i press the egr valve inwards, the car stumbles which i think it means its working. But you mentioned for this car, the cat needs to be installed for the EGR vales to work properly?
I will continue to drive the car to see what is causing the smoke. I will top off with oil and monitor if oil is being burned. i dont think its coolants being burned.
when driving, i smell gas, so it may be running rich. but the CEL is not on. it smells like gas but the smoke is white / black looking.
im thinking of giving the car a seafoam treatment, maybe its a stuck fuel injector?
NOTE: i should also say that when i start the motor when its cold it idles very high, like over 2500 rpm, until its warm. also, the temperature seems a bit low even when warmed up (its usually a third of the way up the instrument cluster).
i was driving in 90 degree weather yesterday for over an hour and the temp gauge was beteen 1/3 and 1/2 the entire time.
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-27-2021
correct 8valve TBI FED car it is, one injector
no need at all for CALIF thermo-probe EGR but does work if installed, sensor there doing zero, both EGR valve work on the FED car, for sure, (do not unscrew the thermo probe from valve.)_
this car is OBD1 not 2,
so you can not use OBD2 anything here, just the flash codes at the DLC jumper
1996 is first care with OBD2. for sure
cat must be installed, and Calif will see its gone at visual inspection. and code 51 tripped.
the dash gauge has not temp marks at all it is just to show gross overheating, and such.
DOES CEL glow key on, and not started, this is step 1 on all these cars this old, ?
lots of reasons to be rich,
thermostat is one, not 190f a 7year life scan part it is. Design life (wax pellet based)
fuel pressure too high
leaking injector. there is only one here
ECT sensor not showing 300 ohms hot with working themostate, higher ohms is cold engine.
spark timing wrong,
bad spark plugs or its wire set .bad (carbon wire suck for life spans, mag core is best)
compression way way too low or timing belt on cam slipped, and compression is horribly sow not 160 PSI but is 100 or less.
that is about it, air cleaner packed in mice nests.
good luck
RE: Need some help - sina27 - 09-30-2021
(09-27-2021, 07:13 AM)fixkick Wrote: correct 8valve TBI FED car it is, one injector
no need at all for CALIF thermo-probe EGR but does work if installed, sensor there doing zero, both EGR valve work on the FED car, for sure, (do not unscrew the thermo probe from valve.)_
this car is OBD1 not 2,
so you can not use OBD2 anything here, just the flash codes at the DLC jumper
1996 is first care with OBD2. for sure
cat must be installed, and Calif will see its gone at visual inspection. and code 51 tripped.
the dash gauge has not temp marks at all it is just to show gross overheating, and such.
DOES CEL glow key on, and not started, this is step 1 on all these cars this old, ?
lots of reasons to be rich,
thermostat is one, not 190f a 7year life scan part it is. Design life (wax pellet based)
fuel pressure too high
leaking injector. there is only one here
ECT sensor not showing 300 ohms hot with working themostate, higher ohms is cold engine.
spark timing wrong,
bad spark plugs or its wire set .bad (carbon wire suck for life spans, mag core is best)
compression way way too low or timing belt on cam slipped, and compression is horribly sow not 160 PSI but is 100 or less.
that is about it, air cleaner packed in mice nests.
good luck
The CEL only glows when keys are in, engine off. When engine on, the CEL is off. I will check the thermostat and ECT sensor
ALSO - I will be ordering a california compliant CAT from rock auto. is there a downststream O2 sensor that I also need to order? I see an 02 sensor on the exhaust manifold right now, is there another one that goes further downstream by the CAT?
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-30-2021
(09-30-2021, 02:24 AM)sina27 Wrote:note at ROCK and others they never asked you what engine is there!, at all ,so they list wrong parts endlessly, (be sure to shop carefully)(09-27-2021, 07:13 AM)fixkick Wrote: correct 8valve TBI FED car it is, one injector
no need at all for CALIF thermo-probe EGR but does work if installed, sensor there doing zero, both EGR valve work on the FED car, for sure, (do not unscrew the thermo probe from valve.)_
this car is OBD1 not 2,
so you can not use OBD2 anything here, just the flash codes at the DLC jumper
1996 is first care with OBD2. for sure
cat must be installed, and Calif will see its gone at visual inspection. and code 51 tripped.
the dash gauge has not temp marks at all it is just to show gross overheating, and such.
DOES CEL glow key on, and not started, this is step 1 on all these cars this old, ?
lots of reasons to be rich,
thermostat is one, not 190f a 7year life scan part it is. Design life (wax pellet based)
fuel pressure too high
leaking injector. there is only one here
ECT sensor not showing 300 ohms hot with working themostate, higher ohms is cold engine.
spark timing wrong,
bad spark plugs or its wire set .bad (carbon wire suck for life spans, mag core is best)
compression way way too low or timing belt on cam slipped, and compression is horribly sow not 160 PSI but is 100 or less.
that is about it, air cleaner packed in mice nests.
good luck
The CEL only glows when keys are in, engine off. When engine on, the CEL is off. I will check the thermostat and ECT sensor
ALSO - I will be ordering a california compliant CAT from rock auto. is there a downststream O2 sensor that I also need to order? I see an 02 sensor on the exhaust manifold right now, is there another one that goes further downstream by the CAT?
only 92-95 8v parts matter here. not 16v and for sure not 1996 up. ever.
in 1996 the 8v was banned by our EPA. and OBD2 born same day.
all cars USA first down-stream O2 is 1996 , by USA law EPA.
and not before, (some rare fords 1995 sure but we are suzuki onlY)
only 1 O2, on the top of the exhaust manifold 8v. just one. (learn to buy the correct O2 , 3 wire or 4, not he same and matters)
all fuse injection is controlled by this one sensors. hot. engine.
the engine needs to be hot first, 180f, this is EFI rule #1, all ease is secondary to that.
i use an IR gun to do that, and for sure hot ECT sensors 300 ohms seen here, in my chart my secret voltage checks
see 300 here, see volts 0.65vdc? (ohms only pulled hot but volts works full time connected, hot. the volts tells you temperatures if ect not bad sure.
https://fixkick.com/ECU/temp-sensors.html
now the IR GUN
top tank , best done after 10 mine run to get full temps correct. idling takes forever, to attain this test.
https://fixkick.com/Cooling-engine/rad-top.jpg
IRgun page
https://fixkick.com/overheating.html#IRgun
code 12 is no bad sensors, this is good start.
no vacuum leaks to the MAP or clogs allowed.
fuel pressure at speck, idle is 34 to 41 psi
fsm spec here.
https://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/8v-fuel-press95w.jpg
keyon idle or wot all the same, this is controlled by altitude only this range
qod:
the car is fed. why calif, cat,
the cat will not fit I bet,
the cat needs only be Three way cat TWC.
Calif versions use different mounts and headers on some.
buy only cats for your 8v, and FED , it is TWC too,
nobody is required to convert any fed car to calif. never have I heard that nor expect it.
now see my complex 02 chart, super tricky but sure 3wire it is
https://fixkick.com/sensors/OxyGen_sensor_help.html#oxy-parts
-56B00 (suzuki)
15726-3 (bosch I added the 3) universal, with pig tails and splice box hack. (it works but take hand splicing and wires connected 1 by 1 correctly)
15701[i][b]-3 (bosch PnP with suzuki plug actual, nothing works better or more easy, just plug it in)[/b][/i]
my page there shows all secret wire colors by suzuki and O2 makes. link just above.
the sensors at rock auto most are wrong all with 4 pins are dead wrong and for 16vdc, for 10 years now wrong. (asked them many a time to do engine types, no fix yet)
what I do is pick a brand, NTK is good (PART OF NGK spark plugs etc) bosch is great but all versions of their sensor are not at ROCK.
there catalog shows 2 kinds 1992 , 8v and 16v, soft top , hard top (hard means 4 doors)
NTK 21541 8v soft top
NTK 24617 16v hard top
make sure the connector matches your cars harness plug, 91 below but looks same , the one and only O2, in the lens.
8v only and 3 wires and 3 pins and be sure plug matches exactly (some show 4 pins at plug but under closer view 1 of 4 is empty.
![[Image: exhaust16L-1w.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/exhaust16L-1w.jpg)
RE: Need some help - fixkick - 09-30-2021
factoid
the susuki EPC (master parts catalog)
shows only 1 cat for 92-95, 8valve engine , not 2, and not cal fed , only 16v has that deal
61a02 then later 61a03 (03 code is 2004 year)
just looked it up.
so there is no cal cat, (it is marketing abuse i guess)