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crack in engine block? - Printable Version

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crack in engine block? - MaurizioG - 02-19-2021

Hello from Italy.
My 1992 Sidekick has had new head replacement just 2 months ago and it was going fine until I recently noticed some coolant dropping from the car.
These last week has been very cold climate and it went below 0 centigrades at night.
Anyway the coolant visibly drops from the area above the oil filter and above the oil pressure sensor.
I'm writing here to ask what is the best known product to add to the coolant to try and stop/seal this leakage....I don't know how you call these products in USA....sealant? there are too many products of this kind for sale and some I know are useless and others can create blockages.
I know there also is a liquid metal/steel to apply from the outside of block but I would like to try the sealant first and see how it goes.
While googling to find a solution I found out there are products that need to stay in the cooling system and others that must be washed away from the system after the repair.
Any recomandation is welcome, thank you,
Maurizio

RE: crack in engine block - fixkick - 02-19-2021

there is no such thing,
the product is called BARS leaks for 50+ years.
it does not repair anything it is just hope in a can that might get you home stranded, and nothing else.
yes can clog tubes in the RAD, sure.
you coolant was not a 50% Antifreeze, it was weak then froze and that causes many parts in the engine to break, block,head,pump,RAD,intake man. and TBody.
just as temps cross 32F degrees water expland like crazy even making 2000PSI pressure
I just cut out 1 foot of cold water pipe above my bath room shower, that exploded, last night. 1/2"copper. I had pipe cap and sweat soldered in it fast.
all water cooled engines do this, boats , RV and more.

50% is good to -35F (-37C) cheap but good, AF (cheap green even from walmart can)

A mixture of 60/40% Arctic type Ethylene Glycol antifreeze will provide freeze
protection down to -62 F (-52 C).

no reason to freeze with any AF, we hit -8F few days ago, colder than north pole that day and 7AM.

RE: crack in engine block - fixkick - 02-19-2021

water from the side of the head gasket is warped head or cracked.

RE: crack in engine block - MaurizioG - 02-19-2021

Thank you Fixkick for your prompt response. Good job fixing your water pipe....some people in farms around here empty their water pipes in the evenings before the night freeze to avoid bursting outdoor above ground water pipes.....shame one cannot put anti-freeze in the domestic water tank ah
It was not so cold here, around 30F and yes there is anti-freeze coolant. It is usually the coldest that you can get in winters here on the isle of Elba.
In your second response did you mean that the coolant might not drain from the block but from the external side of the head gasket? Maybe no crack in the block?
Maybe when new head + new head gasket were replaced the head bolts were tightened /torqued wrong??
It is the mechanic who replaced the head who told me of the crack in that area of the engine block but I'm sure the exaust manifold needs to be removed to look properly where the leak comes from?

RE: crack in engine block - fixkick - 02-19-2021

(02-19-2021, 04:14 PM)MaurizioG Wrote: Thank you Fixkick for your prompt response. Good job fixing your water pipe....some people in farms around here empty their water pipes in the evenings before the night freeze to avoid bursting outdoor above ground water pipes.....shame one cannot put anti-freeze in the domestic water tank ah
It was not so cold here, around 30F and yes there is anti-freeze coolant.  It is usually the coldest that you can get in winters here on the isle of Elba.
In your second response did you mean that the coolant might not drain from the block but from the external side of the head gasket? Maybe no crack in the block?
Yes only saying the gasket under exh man hides the head gasket and if leaks there?, only this matters now, top evidence here. all 4 sides actual but sides leak first)
Maybe when new head + new head gasket were replaced the head bolts were tightened /torqued wrong??
It is the mechanic who replaced the head who told me of the crack in that area of the engine block but I'm sure the exhaust manifold needs to be removed to look properly where the leak comes from? (or under car with flash light straight up)
yes , to all that.  and welcome to Italy to USA texas,,  ive help lots there and in Spain too.  Is this car , 8v or 16valve head)
just freeze damage
or overheat can just warp the head and sure head not torqued right, sure.
you need to know more about what he saw exactly.
yes any external leaks need to be found and seen by direct eye balls close looks.
may shops fail to do head correctly,  here is my list.

head off, the top deck on block all checked for cracks obvious and shown to customer. cylinder cracks, ? (my 8v froze (PO girls own) and cracked water jacket #4main bearing)
deck checks for warp Using  flat ruler,  steel , with feeler gauge. .001" max per foot , or less warp is spec.
same check on bottom on bottom of head. same rule. .001"
the cam bearings not wrecked? ( CAM RIDES IN HEAD machined bearings)
if head is warped it is then put into the oven to DEWARP the head.  340f  ? depends on alloy, pros in shops for heads know what is best oven temp.
if not done this, and milled  out of order, (not de-warped first) the head is  doomed later.
next is is head pressure tested and passes this test and or corrected cause of failure, even 8v has freeze plugs in the head. one 16v I had, VC pulled and freeze plugs top of head all are busted loose floating about, freeze damaged.
milled, head. now. (nobody mills useless heads pass all tests first., logic1) (even have  pro grade Toyota head machine shop check the head, they know what to do first)
now valve. and guides , grind or new as needed.
and seals, and done.

the oven trick puts the head back to its original new state relaxed and normal.  not overheated warped.(driving)

heads are torqued in stages and a pattern, seen in the FSM manual. and my torque page. (links)
the bolt can fail now , this old,  so new bolts are best. seen the snap later , soon after new head put on, used old bolts. they fail, from just being heat stretched so many time, (0ld)
the head bolts at as springs, this is a fact.

I am hoping for you that only head bolts failed.
something easy and cheap.
one can check the torque easy.


my page here covers torque and correct horrible errors done by GM (GEO tracker books)

https://fixkick.com/torque

in imperial measurements sorry. (google translates easy)

see the sequence page. there. a link
this covers 8v and 16v,  and shows that not to just remove bolts , willy nilly  but to stage them up or down, as needed. never wildly.
3 stages, head off, and on. is the rule for small alum. heads

check your bolt toque now at 52ft./lbs

70.5 nm  newton meter

 check them first. (if AF is/was 50% ratio that was not the cause)

long ago, 1966 , the machine shop put the wrong (fresh bored block) wrong freeze plugs in the block, and they blew out the side of the block, at 5mph, I saw it with trans cover removed, in shock me. I never trust any shop again. Test with care.

RE: crack in engine block? - fixkick - 02-19-2021

cracks 101:

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015/04/engine-block-and-head-repair/


good read (warped heads)
and this. 500f oven and steel plate to make it flat again.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2014/10/head-surfacing-straightening/


use only FELPRO gasket on the head, not from ebay china $5 cheap one, do not go cheap here. (only top brands)

RE: crack in engine block? - MaurizioG - 02-19-2021

Thank you for your time and competence.
I'm translating everything you wrote and report to mechanic including the torque sequence page and the 3 torque stages google translated into Newton meter.

RE: crack in engine block? - fixkick - 02-20-2021

(02-19-2021, 11:14 PM)MaurizioG Wrote: Thank you for your time and competence.
I'm translating everything you wrote and report to mechanic including the torque sequence page and the 3 torque stages google translated into Newton meter.
good luck !

what will be, well be.
I hope, simple for  you !!!

RE: crack in engine block? - MaurizioG - 02-21-2021

Thanks, yes it is a 16V head.....will keep you updated.

RE: crack in engine block? - fixkick - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 01:00 AM)MaurizioG Wrote: Thanks, yes it is a 16V head.....will keep you updated.
the 16v head has freeze plugs  (15mm?) on top VC valve cover off. seen  3 of them in top of head, on center line. ( I examine them at valve adjust ment time)
when and engine freezes, the first expensive damage not hoses that flex but the #1 place to fail is the head, up high , love to freeze and the freeze plugs up top blow out
seen with VC simply removed. caused by running pure  water not AF. for coolant. 
 
if oil in pan is clean , most things are good.   there are more freeze plugs one in front too. (head)

[Image: 521_16v-head-1.jpeg]
The tests that fail are, in order of cheap to more expensive tools and labor are.: (assumes full tune up done, sparks and fluids/filters)

  1. eyeballs,  on dipstick or drain oil from pan and replace it, if old oil is full of AF it turns to chocolate moose. nasty milk chocolate.
  2. VC pulled off and 3 below  seen freeze plugs. but above  fails too.
  3. Vacuum gauge at idle not 20inches Hg. (19?) but bounces like mad (failed) a  $20 tool,   or vacuum acts backwards and the CAT MELTED.
  4. SPARK TIPS BLACK. CAUSE UNKNOWN YET BUT IS BAD. TIPS green with AF ,is freeze damage or warped head.
  5. compression not at 185psi,  x4,  bad valves or warped head gasket failed too.  ( one or more can fail and the numbers (psi) matter)
  6. cam belt slipped and compression x4 is 100 pathetic.  timing wrong here (cam,) and for  sure spark as a result.
  7. spark timing set all wrong by PO. or? someone. or is caused by #6 above.
  8. there are for sure  other odd failures, like cracked valves, flat cam lobes, failed camshaft can fail with a lobe near worn down. (huge  lifter noise) solid lifters on this engine.
  9. one good check is valve lash gone (tight),  or very loose. if lash is good, (gap) we get that good feeling with that. bad valves never hold lash good. valve recession called.