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98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - Printable Version

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98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - Behringer - 12-05-2020

98 Tracker 4dr 1.6L 16v 5 spd 4x4

Hello all,

Bit of vehicle history, Motor re-built 200 km ago, transmission swapped to 5 spd from 4 spd auto.

Recently replaced

Plugs (NGK Iridium factory gapped to .032, I changed to .028)
Wires (Belden)
Rotor (Napa Brand?)
Distributor cap (Napa Brand)
Egr valve
Fuel pressure regulator
Fuel Filter
Air filter

My tracker seems to have hesitation and a misfire once the rpm is around and above 2000 rpm.
Also under heavy load it seems to want to stall (off road) coming out of a deactivation. 
I replaced fpr because it failed the leak down test. Would pressurize to 36psi key on, key off immediately to 0psi.
Shunt test proved it was stuck open. New one working properly.
Idle at 780-815 according to live data, ECT 81 Celsius
Also, to get my ign timing set to 5 btdc the distributor is almost maxed out of adjustment CCW. Probably close to 15-20mm away from center.
My next step was going to be confirm timing is correct (Cam/Crank/Dizzy) then injectors. Oh, I also checked the vacuum and its a stable 21 inHG
when I hit the throttle it goes to 0 then up to 25ish and settles back to 21. Not sure if that helps. 

Thanks anyone whos able to help

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-05-2020

(12-05-2020, 11:56 AM)Behringer Wrote: 98 Tracker 4dr 1.6L 16v 5 spd 4x4

Hello all,

Bit of vehicle history, Motor re-built 200 km ago, transmission swapped to 5 spd from 4 spd auto.

Recently replaced

Plugs (NGK Iridium factory gapped to .032, I changed to .028)  (yes set tight then it wears wider , J GAP plugs only no  2J,3J,or gapless ever)
Wires (Belden)
Rotor (Napa Brand?) (not the kind that fits on 3 ways or you see the dizzy error told by you)
Distributor cap (Napa Brand)
Egr valve
Fuel pressure regulator (ouch stuck open )
Fuel Filter
Air filter

My tracker seems to have hesitation and a misfire once the rpm is around and above 2000 rpm.
Also under heavy load it seems to want to stall (off road) coming out of a deceleration.
I replaced fpr because it failed the leak down test. Would pressurize to 36psi key on, key off immediately to 0psi. (passes leak down test?
Shunt test proved it was stuck open. New one working properly.
Idle at 780-815 according to live data, ECT 81 Celsius (OBD2 scanned)?
Also, to get my ign timing set to 5 btdc the distributor is almost maxed out of adjustment CCW. Probably close to 15-20mm away from center.
My next step was going to be confirm timing is correct (Cam/Crank/Dizzy) then injectors. Oh, I also checked the vacuum and its a stable 21 inHG
when I hit the throttle it goes to 0 then up to 25ish and settles back to 21. Not sure if that helps. (Does , show CAT not melted and no  burned intake valves)

Thanks anyone who's able to help
Still misfires,  ?   (bad spark, bad engine or flooding) are the 3 classes of misfire. (causes many , even sensors reading wrong to ECU)
Nice tune up done, that will pay back....
timing set? (spark) with timing freeze jumper? inserted in DLC connector?

is the cam belt jumped 1 tooth,  that would instantly cause spark timing to go off that much. and distrib, hitting end slot.
no scan tool?,  OBD2, is easy to scan , on all cars in USA 1996 up.  all are OBD2 here (our lil' invention)
A real scan tool will show at hot idle in CLOSED loop status, if not we can work this problem too , even first.
DOES:
key ON cluster CEL lamp glows, it must
and start engine it goes out,  right??
Good 82C good. STAT not bad. ECT not BAD, good.(seen via OBD2)


compression at  all 4 per below,  at sea level  are you and do this with throttle blocked open, 1/2 to full by hand or foot, let it peak.
My 97' pulls 185 PSI min. dead cold. (a new head) later  and  hot it does 195 PSI(is spec)
if the belt slips the PSI drops low on all 4.


is the front crank end pulley,  17mm bolt set to 94ft/lbs and never loose?  (I can this the DAY1 CHECK)

clean the MAF yet?,  use plastic safe spray min. 8" away not closer clean the hot wire inside  ,if dirty , it will read low, and huge power loss. (lean)
The MAF has  dash 58B00 marking on side . is yours marked like this? and not fake? MAF:"
58B00 is real suzuki Part Number (PN)
the E5T~ is contract code from Suzuki to maker Mitsubishi in actual JAPAN. That tag must be there, or is fake maf. for sure looks shinny and new MAF. super shine ?

[Image: 488_maf-real-58b00.jpeg]

the last poster here (not you) had a FAKE MAF,  at $20 price (100's flooded on ebay) and his reads too HIGH and engine flooded rich and misfired, (failed smog test)
never use cloned mAFs. from CHINA, they are pure CRAP !
only run those seen on rockauto,  they have no fake mafs there, (they know fakes fail )
a good maf is $200 not $20 , <<< best clue of all is crazy low price, if it looks to hard to believe IT IS.
Normal real MAFs read low, when dirty , only clones go high, and real shocker to see that nasty bit of bad ACT !  wow ah !

your vacuum test seems good for sure steady and drop to 0.

one more trick , not a panacea test but
remove 02 sensor, elect. plug.
this might cause  super rich engine to go learn and stop misfiring, or less.
or if 02 sensors dead and or stuck at 0v , the connector pulled causes 0.45" (1/2 of scale) and my cause less misfire.
the other cause of good 02 sensor failing(and is not) is the exhaust header #4 tube, classic crack seen here.

a good scan tool we see this, we see the O2 swing,  and not stick low if does engine goes rich; AFR, air fuel ratio. this is what CLOSE Loop does, hot engine, idle.
and at light steady foot cruise,  B1 bank 1,  sensor 1 is front, S2 is rear and do not care what it does now. not full swing.  this is called trim too.
Trim (STFT) controls injector modulation Pwm pulse widths.
The  02 simply corrects natural MAF errors,  and others to. but simply this is fuel trim happening. dirt cheap tool show, here is to prove cheap tools work
at harbor Fright(pun)  my far better tools work to and do same.

[Image: O2b1s1.jpg]

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-05-2020

here is real MAF on the road, OBD2 scanned live and fast 1996

lite blue ECT is bad thermostat, takes 20 miles to start working (sluggish) not the strong MAF readings. (and not too strong) vss is speed.
[Image: TP-MAF-VSS-ECT-FUEL.JPG]

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - Behringer - 12-06-2020

Thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate it.

The rotor will only fit the one way. I've read alot of your website and have seen that mentioned often so I made sure.
The new fpr goes to 40psi with key on, came back 4 hours later and it was still at 34 psi.
The Temp and idle have been monitored from my obd2 sensor (live data) I dont believe the scanner I have does the Graph
Exhaust is new front to back minus the manifold. Which I see has the exact same crack as the link you posted.
My MAF sensor has the same label and part # so at least that's authentic.
OBD2 also says it in Closed loop when it warms up. The vehicle smells very rich when cold but I cant notice any fuel smell after intial start up.
Every sidekick/tracker I buy or see gets the crank tightened to 94 ft/lbs right away. The reason the motor got rebuilt was because the original cranksnout and keyway was mangled
then found the notorious cracked block at number 4 journal.
Timing was done with the freeze jumper installed. With freeze jumper installed the advance timing on the scanner shows 5 degrees. (I set it with a light, then looked at scanner)

So i guess first order of business is to repair the exhaust manifold, clean MAF and check timing?

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-06-2020

I am so glad my page saved you the horror of China crap rotors (dizzy/distrib)
and good, the injectors do not leak, thanks for that feedback./

some scan tools have  O2 plotting mode, or you can log any 1 sensor to a file. using PC. (of any kind)
then with a CSV data log file you can plot the data, in MS office Excel GRAPH.
the crack can leak or not, but what is worse than that is the crack changes as you  drive, and goes wider or less.
causing 2 things, Human CHAOS (wtf factor)
and 02 reads wrong engine goes super rich and misfires.
each engine exhaust putt, goes Positive pressure the hot gasses collapses and go negative pressure and if any crack is near the o2, the O2 goes to 0volts then
the ECU goes max rich, and full LTFT + max rich. (STFT too)



fpr goes to 40psi ( what matters is this)
keyon, 36-43
idle,     30-37 psi.
the most important is (not in the FSM these words are)   it must drop 6 PSI , key on to idle. (hot engine test)
then when you gun the throttle PSI RISES, (almost) by 6psi,  not fully this due to some vacuum remains, at WOT.
yours would 40-6= 34 idle then gunned throttle , try to rise back to 40.  this proves FPR works and I bet yours does, but is a very key part of EFI injection this.
the ECU can not compensate for any bad FPR (they can jam closed or open , and do often this old) good to see yours is new,

MAF is real,  not is GOOD !!!!

ok new crank snout parts, no sure how done but that means new belt to  and timed right, a #4 cylinder firing both valves closed, and not using false marks.
the compression test is next to see if the engine comes back to spec, at sea level 180PSI x4 is very common, for sure warm engine even a bit warm not too hot to work on, 
the compression is bench mark, it tells you ,all steps done right.
Bad spark might be it, ?
I have scope and spark plug HV PROBE and I can see spark plasma.   and see MISFIRES,  the plasma resistance tells me if it was lean or rich misfire. (or weak spark)
but wow you got closed loop at idle.
maybe the coil inside the distributor is bad,  (sadly never seen those for sale , only full rebuilds of the DISTib sold)


MAFs real go lean when dirty all do that, (not china crap MAF they do any crazy thing at all or are just useless wrong)
the hot wire cokes up, as you drive at 30,000  miles or more, then as it gets dirty the AIR flow is under reported. so ECU goes lean on injections and bogs.
Bogging is gross lack of power,  not violent misfire, is your misfire violent?  or is it just like dragging a 2000 POUND dead weight behind the car.
my hit list. (not saying mine is better than yours or ordered correct)
  1. MAF dirty (causes simple lack of power not violent misfire) I'd have the hear the engine or see it shake violently to know.
  2. compression way off. ( vacuum test pass and is very good that) 
  3. SPARK induction coil NO GOOD. if spark shows violent misfire. for sure under engine load(hills)
  4. bad spark wires, I use MAG wires only (sidekick loves them) carbon core and Silicon core are junk short lived or seen even new and bad, lots.
  5. using TDC tool make sure #1 mark on crank matches the tool ( I say this due to snout history and DIZZY clamp slot at the end)
I know your put in new wires but this can be considered, for sure weak spark, found.
BOSCH mag or NKG, are amazing at delivering full suzuki weak spark to the plugs. (the are wire only inside spun , in fact are INDUCTORS)
Suzuki, spark is not HIGH ENGERGY ignition that came way later with COP's. lets call it low energy ignition, wires good, and J-plugs of any kind work.(spec)

yes this is what PUTTs do,   and chaos it can do. this includes the donut gasket at the end of EXH man header end, cracked or loose.

[Image: exhaustscavenging-p1-1.JPG]
At time line B, the crack sucks AIR,  and is 20% Oxygen (sealevel) and that is like 20x what any narrow band O2 can stand, the O2 slams to 0 volts
and ECU sees this as way too lean and goes way to rich, and at very crazy unpredictable times, (cracks change by temperature, thermal expansion etc.)

that is all I can think of now,
Happy Holidays to you and CHEERS to you and all, and friends.

PS: if the misfire is violent please tell me that or fully define to me misfire under all conditions, felt, heard, or seen. and if violent or just is lean burn bog.
lean burn.
1 spark plug misfiring is violent bam bam bam waka.  repeat. 3 good 1 bad cylinder.
all 4 dead is crazy violent (4 good then 4 bad repeat wow violent) (bad spark coil yah)

lean burn all 4 misfire sure, but is  smooth misfire, to witness lean burn ,  pull  the FI fuse running , all fueling ends is 3 seconds and goes LEAN.
feel that witness that and now know why I ask about MR./ VIOLENT present. aka, BOGGING, (a simple gross lost of engine power)

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-06-2020

Under load , spark wants to fail due to huge cylinder (combustion chamber) pressures, 95HP pressure. (this is even more true on turbocharged engine, needs very powerful spark)
this means narrow spark gaps work best, and lots of High Voltage to do that act.
for sure on this car with weak factory stock spark coil .
sadly no coils sold, like on 1995 back.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/geo,1997,tracker,1.6l+l4,1142299,ignition,distributor,7108

misfire,: causes.
spark bad (can be scoped and proven)
too rich (under load I guess) one trick is that wot , wide open throttle , there is no 02 in uses it is OFF LINE on all hard accelerations and the MAF runs the SHOW.
weak compression on 1 cylinder would be super violent misfire.

the MAF can be tested easy with a volt meter, at output pin check volts, , keyon, then idle 800, and gunned hard, wot , parked, you can see it try to reach 3vdc out, or my scan tool , shows g/sec. output.

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-06-2020

so you you have a new crankshaft, and perfect keyed snout?

one way for the distrib to be stuck at end of range, (flange bolt slot)
is this. seen this , it is 2020 problem modern problem.
1: new cam or head, or rebuilt. (or whole engine)
2: the new cam is from China, (clones) none made here, nor sold at suzuki USA , shows discontinued 1271056B01 , but sells head for $2000 !
3: unlike SUZUKI, china sells them with no gear on the end. OUCH and OOPS.
4: suzuk does not do that so does not cover how to put the gear on the end in the CORRECT way (timed)
5: there are 13 teeth so if off half a tooth , yeah distrib bottoms out. there I told this nastly little fact so common today.
.
1/2 a tooth is 13degrees off, at cam,and distrib at crank 2 times that. crank turns 2times CAM. (or for 0 to 13degrees cam error)
this is no problem for the cam , it has keys up front but not that DIZZY, lucky you it was not so off, the 5degBTDC as possible.
seen some guys even cut up the distrib flange to gain, right timing. 5deg.
CHina does it again, and again.

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-06-2020

if engine misfires WOT
it is not the crack, WOT shuts down the 02 , and there is no closed loop , wow or accererating
does WOT fail?
wot=wide open throttle, sorry for jargon use...

hot engine, ECT shows, 180F+ mine had 195F stat , that I liked.
The engine sensors must read correctly at idle (seems they ) and at WOT
key sensor then is MAF,

a good scan tool has button called pendings, (the rules of 2 driving cycles to see some DTC is a pain) but we use the pending button to see all DTC'S tripping but not just stored.
The DOOM fuse must be good or the ECU can not store, DTCs and then you miss them , and that is never good that.
codes to look for is easy, app P03xx codes, every one is misfiring in all flavors.
drive and scan is the only way to fix any car that is for sure misfiring only driving and not at idle misfiring.
drive and log or use the 2 man rule, one drives other looks or logs.

also know this about suzuki, 1996 +
the OBD2, is detuned for misfire, what that means is they expect 4wd to set false misfire codes, so they (dang) tune the P030x codes (x= 0 to 4)
so drivers are not scared of this offroad 4wd, this is 4wd feature but makes finding misfire codes harder.

and the 2 driving cycle rules to set many DTC, this to makes working on cars harder.
PENDING CODES is the salvation here.

this can unhide, CMP and CKP sensor MISFIRES. the ECU loves to hid those 2, for sure, so we must look hard to make sure that is not happening
again Pendings.

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - Behringer - 12-07-2020

Heres a link to the video I took with live data. Hopefully it helps. Also I checked the codes again today and the p0400 came back.
OneDrive (1drv.ms)

RE: 98 Tracker Sluggish, misfire - fixkick - 12-07-2020

why does the tool show DTC_CNT = 5, does that mean there are 5 DTC errors stored or live , you are missing?
no pending button?

beside that , all looks ok.
but engine runs bad up hills right< not parked,
please tell all modes of driving hot engine, when it shows, loss of power, and or misfire.
up hills too, and wot.
all times and modes, of driving.