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+--- Thread: 3L30 lock up control (/thread-3l30-lock-up-control)
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3L30 lock up control - Hangar5 - 09-30-2019
Hello to all.
After much inter web searching,.i find myself joining this group to pose my question..I can find no instance of anyone splicing into a 2.0 AT ECU in order to use the TC lockup on a Th180/ 3L30. Or more correctly,.to set the TCC relay..if cannot be done. Then it’s back to the Pull-a-Part yard for a 4spd.. This is a 1991 Tracker 4wd. I’m ok with the 3spd if the TC operates as designed for the 1.6..otherwise I’ll graft in the 4spd Aisin, mounts and driveshafts, speedo wiring etc.
RE: 3L30 lock up control - fixkick - 09-30-2019
(09-30-2019, 08:15 AM)Hangar5 Wrote: Hello to all.
After much inter web searching,.i find myself joining this group to pose my question..I can find no instance of anyone splicing into a 2.0 AT ECU in order to use the TC lockup on a Th180/ 3L30. Or more correctly,.to set the TCC relay..if cannot be done. Then it’s back to the Pull-a-Part yard for a 4spd.. This is a 1991 Tracker 4wd. I’m ok with the 3spd if the TC operates as designed for the 1.6..otherwise I’ll graft in the 4spd Aisin, mounts and driveshafts, speedo wiring etc.
Hello: Hangar5
not sure what car you have (when new and opted then) at all nor what modifications to (later) if done nor all problems related, you are experiencing. (sure TCC dead)
The old cars used a relay for TCC and then newer do not, the newer ECUs have Transistor direct drive. to to that. 1996 and newer did.
then you hint at 3speed and 4 speed transmission the latter are fully electronic shifted, but the former 3sp is only TCC electronics + full hyrdamatic.
are you saying you have 91 Tracker, 3speed now? and the TCC is dead, with 3speed ECU 1991? and if you hot wired the TCC relay ,output the TCC lockup fails. (or hotwire the TCC pin on 3sp box, TCC pin, its dead)
or how does a 2Liter ECU fit in here? confused. me.
the ecu must be marked A/T or it has no TCC controls at all, ours the tag shows, US-AT just above the partnumber, but ive no idea what ECU (PCM) you have. nor year.
RE: 3L30 lock up control - Hangar5 - 10-01-2019
fixkick
(09-30-2019, 08:15 AM)Hangar5 Wrote: Hello to all.
After much inter web searching,.i find myself joining this group to pose my question..I can find no instance of anyone splicing into a 2.0 AT ECU in order to use the TC lockup on a Th180/ 3L30. Or more correctly,.to set the TCC relay..if cannot be done. Then it’s back to the Pull-a-Part yard for a 4spd.. This is a 1991 Tracker 4wd. I’m ok with the 3spd if the TC operates as designed for the 1.6..otherwise I’ll graft in the 4spd Aisin, mounts and driveshafts, speedo wiring etc.
Hello: Hangar5
not sure what car you have (when new and opted then) at all nor what modifications to (later) if done nor all problems related, you are experiencing. (sure TCC dead)
The old cars used a relay for TCC and then newer do not, the newer ECUs have Transistor direct drive. to to that. 1996 and newer did.
then you hint at 3speed and 4 speed transmission the latter are fully electronic shifted, but the former 3sp is only TCC electronics + full hyrdamatic.
are you saying you have 91 Tracker, 3speed now? and the TCC is dead, with 3speed ECU 1991? and if you hot wired the TCC relay ,output the TCC lockup fails. (or hotwire the TCC pin on 3sp box, TCC pin, its dead)
or how does a 2Liter ECU fit in here? confused. me.
the ecu must be marked A/T or it has no TCC controls at all, ours the tag shows, US-AT just above the partnumber, but ive no idea what ECU (PCM) you have. nor year.
Yes I should have explained where I am ,and where I’m trying to get to, a little better. Not trying to correct any faults right now with this 4wd 3spd Tracker (1991). But a few more ponys would be great. So got a 2.0(no ECU yet).and am searching to see if anyone has used a 2.0 automatic transmin ECU to control the TC. Or should I be looking for a stand alone unit.It seems like it wouldn’t be too complex.42ish mph, no brake.,throttle not closed and not “mashed”.
RE: 3L30 lock up control - Hangar5 - 10-01-2019
Yes I should have explained where I am ,and where I’m trying to get to, a little better. Not trying to correct any faults right now with this 4wd 3spd Tracker (1991). But a few more ponys would be great. So I’ve got a 2.0 motor (no ECU yet).and am searching to see if anyone has used a 2.0 automatic transmin ECU to control the TC in a Th180. Or should I be looking for a stand alone unit.It seems like it wouldn’t be too complex. Speed about 45 mph, no brake.,throttle not closed and not “mashed”..and TC relay gets set. If a 2.0 ECU or PCM can trigger the relay , then I would be good with a 2.0 running a TH180. ,and a Locking TC .No one has done this.?
RE: 3L30 lock up control - fixkick - 10-02-2019
1991 stock car, ok.
id say the box kite car does not need more pony's , unless at 10,000 feet?
I presume its 4wd, 2door, and 8valve engine sure 80hp not 95 like the 16v has.
the Ecu vary alot by year, you said, 2.0L but what year? nears matter lots.
the 3sp box is just hydra matic, infact a toggle switch on the dash could turn TCC off and on on demand, at any speed, or load.
so knowing just that one fact you get to learn how all 2L ECU work(AT) from 1999 up. lots of ECU way up to last 2.o made, in may suzuki bodies not just one body.
many newer cars have only 4 speed. trans.
many do not have the kickdown cable that make TCC work right. or not.
some ECU deleted (new) the kickdown and used only the TPS throttle angle input or on some have both and the one that works today wins, 96 have that on sidekicks.
The TCC is base off Speed (VSS) RPM , engine load (vacuum map on this car) and on 2.0 MAF readings on that engine. and off TPS angels.
if the kick down cable is missing the TCC will want to lockup way sooner,
getting all that right with any engine swaps is not easy, the ECU in the end must be happy or TCC can go nuts even HUNT like mad. (and then burn up)
id go the switch, label it town or country, and use that.
or at 45mph through the lever.
the 2.0L engine mostly have 4 speed behind it, and the that has its own TCC controls and need relay to do that, or fear burning up the new ECU with a excess load in the old 3l30 solenoid .
The newer cars many have lower current Solenoid in the pan valve body TCC solenoid.
Id need the year car the 2.0 came out of and then get the ECU (PCM) schematic to see what it uses, and what is safe, by year.
RE: 3L30 lock up control - fixkick - 10-02-2019
one more point some 2.0L PCMs (ecu +tcm = pcm) want to see that 4speed box there, and if not goes to nuts, with lots of DTC errors and gets confused.
but that depends on the year, or as the the sidekick moved the TCM box in the ECU in 1997, 4speed.
the ECU knows what box you have due to TCM tells the ECU what box is there and changes mode or has 1 pin grounded in the PCM telling it what transmission is there.
each year are different.
there are no easy swaps for sure with automatics.
name donor car first. then things get vastly more easy, (hope) make , model year, trans type, PCM model codes, 2wd or 4wd and all that, the full spec, on donor car, is needed.
RE: 3L30 lock up control - Hangar5 - 10-03-2019
(10-02-2019, 02:25 AM)fixkick Wrote: one more point some 2.0L PCMs (ecu +tcm = pcm) want to see that 4speed box there, and if not goes to nuts, with lots of DTC errors and gets confused.
but that depends on the year, or as the the sidekick moved the TCM box in the ECU in 1997, 4speed.
the ECU knows what box you have due to TCM tells the ECU what box is there and changes mode or has 1 pin grounded in the PCM telling it what transmission is there.
each year are different.
there are no easy swaps for sure with automatics.
name donor car first. then things get vastly more easy, (hope) make , model year, trans type, PCM model codes, 2wd or 4wd and all that, the full spec, on donor car, is needed.
Well ..the Tracker that I pulled the 2.0 from was a model year 2000,.A 2dr 5spd,.2wd..But,.I’m not sure that any of that matters,.as the ECU had already been pilfered..And I’m wondering if a 2.0 Automatic trans ECU could be used to control the 3L30 T converter lockup. Or run the engine with a manual transmission ECU and use other sources to operate the T.C.. I’m in the process of gathering wiring diagrams.,but thought maybe someone had already done this..It seems that this method would be software intensive..,and the Aisin 4spd installation well..would be More of a nuts and bolt and fabrication. ordeal..
RE: 3L30 lock up control - fixkick - 10-04-2019
(10-03-2019, 10:09 AM)Hangar5 Wrote:(10-02-2019, 02:25 AM)fixkick Wrote: one more point some 2.0L PCMs (ecu +tcm = pcm) want to see that 4speed box there, and if not goes to nuts, with lots of DTC errors and gets confused.
but that depends on the year, or as the the sidekick moved the TCM box in the ECU in 1997, 4speed.
the ECU knows what box you have due to TCM tells the ECU what box is there and changes mode or has 1 pin grounded in the PCM telling it what transmission is there.
each year are different.
there are no easy swaps for sure with automatics.
name donor car first. then things get vastly more easy, (hope) make , model year, trans type, PCM model codes, 2wd or 4wd and all that, the full spec, on donor car, is needed.
Well ..the Tracker that I pulled the 2.0 from was a model year 2000,.A 2dr 5spd,.2wd..But,.I’m not sure that any of that matters,.as the ECU had already been pilfered..And I’m wondering if a 2.0 Automatic trans ECU could be used to control the 3L30 T converter lockup. Or run the engine with a manual transmission ECU and use other sources to operate the T.C.. I’m in the process of gathering wiring diagrams.,but thought maybe someone had already done this..It seems that this method would be software intensive..,and the Aisin 4spd installation well..would be More of a nuts and bolt and fabrication. ordeal..
RE: 3L30 lock up control - fixkick - 10-04-2019
ok 2000, that is very different , drive line, the 2000 has wider frame rails so lots of changes there generation 1 to 3,
in 1966 (gen2) they changes splines on the rear of the transfer cased, but you have no such case. not sure what changed on all 2wd, never seen one, but did convert one to 4wd.
yes, it does matter, the 2000 has no 3speed TCC relay, and does drive, from 2.0L ECU to the transmission.
the 4 speed is fully electronic box, it is NOT a hydramatic like 3L30, it a 100% solenoid controlled valve body in the 4speed. the 3L30 (th180) is a 1975 early transmission .
yes one can make a box with say and ARM card or Arduino and program it to shift the box, based on RPM/load/speed. just like the 1989 does.
2000 tracker has 1.6L or 2.0L engine and only 4speed auto (electronic) and 5speed and no 3speed,box. they phased out the 3l30, long ago. and no flexplate to crank shaft parts.
2000 vitara 2L and 2.5L v6
2000 GV has all three engines G16, J20 and H25
and all 3 have no 3speed BOXES , then.
The PCM on all 3 have 12 AT box connections, PRNDL (6 wires for this alone and 3 solenoid wires. and speed sensors and more the 3rd solenoid is TCC lockup.)
the 2000 only has the 4speed, PCM shifted, transmission. fitting up the old 3sp to that IDK about the flexplate, nor if the TCC output of the PCM would work on the 3speed.
the PCM cant work at all 2000 , it knows of no such box. it only knows 4speed and the PCM does all the shifting.
So it will not send TCC signals out, to any 3SP, due to all inputs to the PCM (AT pins) are reading wrong.
here is the 3L30 lockup rules, (ECU firmware this is) last one built is 1998,
the ECU knows weight car too, 2doors are 3speed, so 2000 lb car is possible (kite light)
The ECU knows, load,speed (VSS) and engine RPM (tranny input RPM to clutch)
as you can see it is non trivial how this works , for one silly white wire, might seem?
no 2000 car has this trans. + the axle ratios are not the same for 3 transmission. so if that is wrong the brain (ECM) shifts the TCC wrong, or if 4speed gets them all wrong.
![[Image: 3L30LOCK.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/tranny/automatic-slush/TCC/3L30LOCK.jpg)
RE: 3L30 lock up control - Hangar5 - 10-06-2019
(10-04-2019, 09:32 PM)fixkick Wrote: ok 2000, that is very different , drive line, the 2000 has wider frame rails so lots of changes there generation 1 to 3,
in 1966 (gen2) they changes splines on the rear of the transfer cased, but you have no such case. not sure what changed on all 2wd, never seen one, but did convert one to 4wd.
yes, it does matter, the 2000 has no 3speed TCC relay, and does drive, from 2.0L ECU to the transmission.
the 4 speed is fully electronic box, it is NOT a hydramatic like 3L30, it a 100% solenoid controlled valve body in the 4speed. the 3L30 (th180) is a 1975 early transmission .
yes one can make a box with say and ARM card or Arduino and program it to shift the box, based on RPM/load/speed. just like the 1989 does.
2000 tracker has 1.6L or 2.0L engine and only 4speed auto (electronic) and 5speed and no 3speed,box. they phased out the 3l30, long ago. and no flexplate to crank shaft parts.
2000 vitara 2L and 2.5L v6
2000 GV has all three engines G16, J20 and H25
and all 3 have no 3speed BOXES , then.
The PCM on all 3 have 12 AT box connections, PRNDL (6 wires for this alone and 3 solenoid wires. and speed sensors and more the 3rd solenoid is TCC lockup.)
the 2000 only has the 4speed, PCM shifted, transmission. fitting up the old 3sp to that IDK about the flexplate, nor if the TCC output of the PCM would work on the 3speed.
the PCM cant work at all 2000 , it knows of no such box. it only knows 4speed and the PCM does all the shifting.
So it will not send TCC signals out, to any 3SP, due to all inputs to the PCM (AT pins) are reading wrong.
here is the 3L30 lockup rules, (ECU firmware this is) last one built is 1998,
the ECU knows weight car too, 2doors are 3speed, so 2000 lb car is possible (kite light)
The ECU knows, load,speed (VSS) and engine RPM (tranny input RPM to clutch)
as you can see it is non trivial how this works , for one silly white wire, might seem?
no 2000 car has this trans. + the axle ratios are not the same for 3 transmission. so if that is wrong the brain (ECM) shifts the TCC wrong, or if 4speed gets them all wrong.