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+--- Thread: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions (/thread-1996-geo-tracker-obdii-questions)
1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - Agk007 - 09-10-2016
So just to give a little background, i purchased a 96 Geo tracker LSi 2wd 4D for $1000 with plans to swap the engine into my 88 Samurai. Now here's where it gets interesting. I plan on turboing the 1.6 16V but i also plan on doing a full rebuild of the engine and upgrading the pistons and rods to handle some boost. Nothing crazy though only about 6-8psi for now while still using the stock ECU and a FMU to enrich fuel during boost. Anyways, since this is a OBDII engine, some things won't necessarily be the same with the turbo manifold and i'm wondering if the CEL will be on or if i can trick it into not being on. Right away i worry about the down stream o2 sensor from the cat, if i delete the cat will the CEL light be on or is there a way to trick it, since all i believe it does is monitor how well the cat is functioning. Also i know the EGR system wont function since the turbo manifold doesn't have the port that allows exhaust to flow through the head and into the egr main valve, is there a way to remove the EGR as well so the computer doesn't see a problem and trip the CEL? I would love to be able to turbo it and still have all the functionality of the stock ECU in case there are other problems that i can still monitor.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - fixkick - 09-10-2016
greetings and welcome:
actual FMU, non stated, there are many, vast ,types.
my guess, the 10;1 FMU pressure regulator and matching HD fuel pump that can handle it. right?
what is your fuel supply schematic, I'd need to see that. the plan.... If the FMU messes up the FPR, in non boost, the ECU will mess up. fuel rates horribly.
This ECU needs a working FPR, in non-turbo mode. its a fact.
Fooling any ECU is near impossible, just when you think its fooled, it fools you ! at the worst possible time, (Mr. Murphy) after all its unknown software your attempting to fool. (firmware it is, software in silicon ROM)
(over 5psi, can bend the weak rods. 200HP is the rumor on limit, as you know.)
the cat monitor , needs a working CAT and working twin 02, to pass the P0420 tests. there is no fooling that. (and is illegal in usa to sell a product that attempts this, and the test is a secret, how its done and is very complex.)
The CEL will glow, why do you not want it to glow?
only reason is if the ECU goes in to limp home mode.
(09-10-2016, 01:24 PM)Agk007 Wrote: So just to give a little background, i purchased a 96 Geo tracker LSi 2wd 4D for $1000 with plans to swap the engine into my 88 Samurai. Now here's where it gets interesting. I plan on turbo'ing the 1.6 16V but i also plan on doing a full rebuild of the engine and upgrading the pistons and rods to handle some boost. Nothing crazy though only about 6-8psi for now while still using the stock ECU and a FMU to enrich fuel during boost.
Anyways, since this is a OBDII engine, some things won't necessarily be the same with the turbo manifold and i'm wondering if the CEL will be on or if i can trick it into not being on.
The EGR will be dead and for both reasons, no head tunnel for EGR (exh, man missing) and the CAT dead, this engines use CAT back pressure to modulate
the flow, of EGR, and if that is missing the EGR modulator goes nuts and can cause overflowing if the mod sticks on, as some do. like this.
so P0400s will forever set.
Right away i worry about the down stream o2 sensor from the cat, if i delete the cat will the CEL light be on or is there a way to trick it, since all i believe it does is monitor how well the cat is functioning.
Also i know the EGR system wont function since the turbo manifold doesn't have the port that allows exhaust to flow through the head and into the egr main valve, is there a way to remove the EGR as well so the computer doesn't see a problem and trip the CEL? (It will)
I would love to be able to turbo it and still have all the functionality of the stock ECU in case there are other problems that i can still monitor.
many have dreamed this, few to none , have done it, on any post 96 cars , usa.
why not just do it the right way with custom ECU.? there is NO better way.
the only way to fool the ECU, is to run, a working EGR and CAT and normal fuel rail pressures, in non turbo mode.
to fool it under boost, the ECU does not run many diagnostics under acceleration, the FSM shows the rules here, and is free to read.
The ECU on this car has EGR only map sensor just for EGR, and this will not be working under boost.
The Under boost the ECU will inject using a table, that is basically FPR based, this table, is the FPR pressures, at normal manifold vacuum.
The FPR, will not be under vacuum and will be under pressure, rendering the FPR table useless and the FPR will be stuck at 43psi (key on pressure)
This is totally opposite of normal, so the fuel injection rates, (FPR alonE ) will be at WOT normally asperated rates, 95HP rates.
but you have a FMU, (no schematics shown) but if the FMU is only on line, during boost then non-boost the FPR will works as normal.
but if the FMU is online all the time (no tables shown by you or your FMU brand or datasheets) then the FMU man mess up rail pressures.
the FMU whole magic is , that its really a FPR of super power. that is its purpose, 10;1 one with matching high pressure high flow pumpm HPHF.
then begs the question if using this new HPHF pump. will the stock FPR handle that, many cant, its not designed for any HPHF pump.
The FPR, needs to work, and the injectors need to work under boost. many do not .
The most key of all, is having the engine go lean under boost, and the engine will blow up.
A lasting design will include a failsafe mode, that will prevents under boost lean out, , any small computer(uP) can do that, and ARM processor that measures.
fuel line pressure and boost pressures, at all times (fast scan) and if it fails, cuts spark,is the correct way.
The pros that race like this run one more device, called fast knock cut out device, its a knock sensor, and computer, this sensor can hear knock way before any human can hear it, and it fact retards spark to prevent it , in real time, if the knock can not be prevented, in time, this processor cuts spark too.
this is double protections. (as seen on all top, turbo factory made cars, and is the one reason the engines last, with turbo boost)
or run a real custom ECU that does that, already, as all the good ones do.
Id never attempt this, unless an custom ECU is used, and with both fail-safe(lean/knock methods) under boost in place, protecting the big investment.
one other fix, is running a low compression ratio (CR) head, so that the ECU can have a safe zone, for boost,if it can't stop knock , say.
this works the best, and really, turbo is just variable CR, if you look it from from this point of view.
With high boost, one must control fuel mix, totally, it must be rich enough to not DETONATE, or boom, end of story. and engine.
btw , the transmission and other parts, may not like over 200hp either, (8PSI boost) id not go over 5psi on this engine, why push the edge, and break things?
this engine has a MAF, and when air flow hits max the crosses the line the ECU sees that, and sets codes for that, MAF dead. (hit the wall at 4+volts)
This puts the ECU in limphome mode.
best book in print on topic, tells all the pitfalls very well.
by Greg Banish.
"engine management : advanced tuning" best of best.
free fsm, ACK's FAq., moved and all links to it died with it, amazing fact, that. 1996 tracker FSM, (minus bags/abs)
but is here.
to find his book, (he is the only person on earth to scan this huge book, into PDF,)
this is his new home, and each and every , DTC error is defined, as to setup and tests. and how it works .
grab it while you can ....
http://www.acksfaq.com/2016bp.php?urlname=http://www.acksfaq.com/HTML/trackerfsm.htm
that is my opinion, and can be totally wrong, lacking any new system schematic, and parts list.. of the total plan.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - Agk007 - 09-11-2016
(09-10-2016, 11:25 PM)fixkick Wrote: greetings and welcome: Thanks glad to be here!
actual FMU, non stated, there are many, vast ,types.
my guess, the 10;1 FMU pressure regulator and matching HD fuel pump that can handle it. right? Correct
what is your fuel supply schematic, I'd need to see that. the plan.... If the FMU messes up the FPR, in non boost, the ECU will mess up. fuel rates horribly. I'll attach a picture of how i thought it would be attached.
This ECU needs a working FPR, in non-turbo mode. its a fact.
Fooling any ECU is near impossible, just when you think its fooled, it fools you ! at the worst possible time, (Mr. Murphy) after all its unknown software your attempting to fool. (firmware it is, software in silicon ROM)
(over 5psi, can bend the weak rods. 200HP is the rumor on limit, as you know.)
the cat monitor , needs a working CAT and working twin 02, to pass the P0420 tests. there is no fooling that. (and is illegal in usa to sell a product that attempts this, and the test is a secret, how its done and is very complex.)
The CEL will glow, why do you not want it to glow?
only reason is if the ECU goes in to limp home mode. Thats what i fear the most is going into limp mode, i don't want that at all.
(09-10-2016, 01:24 PM)Agk007 Wrote: So just to give a little background, i purchased a 96 Geo tracker LSi 2wd 4D for $1000 with plans to swap the engine into my 88 Samurai. Now here's where it gets interesting. I plan on turbo'ing the 1.6 16V but i also plan on doing a full rebuild of the engine and upgrading the pistons and rods to handle some boost. Nothing crazy though only about 6-8psi for now while still using the stock ECU and a FMU to enrich fuel during boost.
Anyways, since this is a OBDII engine, some things won't necessarily be the same with the turbo manifold and i'm wondering if the CEL will be on or if i can trick it into not being on.
The EGR will be dead and for both reasons, no head tunnel for EGR (exh, man missing) and the CAT dead, this engines use CAT back pressure to modulate
the flow, of EGR, and if that is missing the EGR modulator goes nuts and can cause overflowing if the mod sticks on, as some do. like this.
so P0400s will forever set.
Right away i worry about the down stream o2 sensor from the cat, if i delete the cat will the CEL light be on or is there a way to trick it, since all i believe it does is monitor how well the cat is functioning.
Also i know the EGR system wont function since the turbo manifold doesn't have the port that allows exhaust to flow through the head and into the egr main valve, is there a way to remove the EGR as well so the computer doesn't see a problem and trip the CEL? (It will)
I would love to be able to turbo it and still have all the functionality of the stock ECU in case there are other problems that i can still monitor.
many have dreamed this, few to none , have done it, on any post 96 cars , usa.
why not just do it the right way with custom ECU.? there is NO better way. I think i will take your advice and get a custom ECU (microsquirt) standalone just so i can program engine protection in.
the only way to fool the ECU, is to run, a working EGR and CAT and normal fuel rail pressures, in non turbo mode.
to fool it under boost, the ECU does not run many diagnostics under acceleration, the FSM shows the rules here, and is free to read.
The ECU on this car has EGR only map sensor just for EGR, and this will not be working under boost.
The Under boost the ECU will inject using a table, that is basically FPR based, this table, is the FPR pressures, at normal manifold vacuum.
The FPR, will not be under vacuum and will be under pressure, rendering the FPR table useless and the FPR will be stuck at 43psi (key on pressure)
This is totally opposite of normal, so the fuel injection rates, (FPR alonE ) will be at WOT normally asperated rates, 95HP rates.
but you have a FMU, (no schematics shown) but if the FMU is only on line, during boost then non-boost the FPR will works as normal.
but if the FMU is online all the time (no tables shown by you or your FMU brand or datasheets) then the FMU man mess up rail pressures.
the FMU whole magic is , that its really a FPR of super power. that is its purpose, 10;1 one with matching high pressure high flow pumpm HPHF.
then begs the question if using this new HPHF pump. will the stock FPR handle that, many cant, its not designed for any HPHF pump.
The FPR, needs to work, and the injectors need to work under boost. many do not .
The most key of all, is having the engine go lean under boost, and the engine will blow up.
A lasting design will include a failsafe mode, that will prevents under boost lean out, , any small computer(uP) can do that, and ARM processor that measures.
fuel line pressure and boost pressures, at all times (fast scan) and if it fails, cuts spark,is the correct way.
The pros that race like this run one more device, called fast knock cut out device, its a knock sensor, and computer, this sensor can hear knock way before any human can hear it, and it fact retards spark to prevent it , in real time, if the knock can not be prevented, in time, this processor cuts spark too.
this is double protections. (as seen on all top, turbo factory made cars, and is the one reason the engines last, with turbo boost)
or run a real custom ECU that does that, already, as all the good ones do.
Id never attempt this, unless an custom ECU is used, and with both fail-safe(lean/knock methods) under boost in place, protecting the big investment.
one other fix, is running a low compression ratio (CR) head, so that the ECU can have a safe zone, for boost,if it can't stop knock , say.
this works the best, and really, turbo is just variable CR, if you look it from from this point of view.
With high boost, one must control fuel mix, totally, it must be rich enough to not DETONATE, or boom, end of story. and engine.
btw , the transmission and other parts, may not like over 200hp either, (8PSI boost) id not go over 5psi on this engine, why push the edge, and break things?[/color]My target is around 150-160 hp. I also plan on using lower compression pistons than stock to help with detonation and also run premium fuel. I believe the stock crank doesn't like more than 200 hp so i don't plan on going near that. I think i would feel much safer having overboost protection that cuts fuel/spark if the BOV reference falls off. I just have to do some more homework on how to tune, or pay someone to do it for me.
this engine has a MAF, and when air flow hits max the crosses the line the ECU sees that, and sets codes for that, MAF dead. (hit the wall at 4+volts)
This puts the ECU in limphome mode. Well, since i'm not going with the stock MAF or ecu now, i can find a 2bar MAF or something that has a wider range for tuning with the microsquirt.
best book in print on topic, tells all the pitfalls very well.
by Greg Banish.
"engine management : advanced tuning" best of best. I will have to check this out and read it.
free fsm, ACK's FAq., moved and all links to it died with it, amazing fact, that. 1996 tracker FSM, (minus bags/abs) I actually have paperback FSM book 1 and 2!
but is here.
to find his book, (he is the only person on earth to scan this huge book, into PDF,)
this is his new home, and each and every , DTC error is defined, as to setup and tests. and how it works .
grab it while you can ....
http://www.acksfaq.com/2016bp.php?urlname=http://www.acksfaq.com/HTML/trackerfsm.htm
that is my opinion, and can be totally wrong, lacking any new system schematic, and parts list.. of the total plan.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - Agk007 - 09-13-2016
Also, just out of curiosity, which CEL codes trigger limp home mode? I would be ok with having a CEL on if it still runs fine.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - fixkick - 09-13-2016
(09-13-2016, 06:35 AM)Agk007 Wrote: Also, just out of curiosity, which CEL codes trigger limp home mode? I would be ok with having a CEL on if it still runs fine.
easy,its in the book ,under, FAILSafe, (limp)
all these here and see the box, on the right is 96 to 98
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/LimpHome/failsafe.html
MAF = P0102/103
IAT = P0112/113
ECT = P0117/118
TPS = P112/123
VSS1 = P0500 ( speedo vss) Vehicle Speed sensor = VSS
A/T
TR = P0705 (A/T Range shifter output in conflict)
VSS2 = P0720 ( 4sp Vss tail speed sensor dead)
SS#1 = P0753 (shift solenoid 1 bad)
SS#2 = P0758 (shift solenoid 2 bad)
TCC = P0743 (torque converter clutch malf)
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - Agk007 - 09-13-2016
(09-13-2016, 07:11 AM)fixkick Wrote:(09-13-2016, 06:35 AM)Agk007 Wrote: Also, just out of curiosity, which CEL codes trigger limp home mode? I would be ok with having a CEL on if it still runs fine.
easy,its in the book ,under, FAILSafe, (limp)
all these here and see the box, on the right is 96 to 98
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/LimpHome/failsafe.html
MAF = P0102/103
IAT = P0112/113
ECT = P0117/118
TPS = P112/123
VSS1 = P0500 ( speedo vss) Vehicle Speed sensor = VSS
A/T
TR = P0705 (A/T Range shifter output in conflict)
VSS2 = P0720 ( 4sp Vss tail speed sensor dead)
SS#1 = P0753 (shift solenoid 1 bad)
SS#2 = P0758 (shift solenoid 2 bad)
TCC = P0743 (torque converter clutch malf)
So it looks like as long as the MAF, IAT, ECT, TPS, and VSS1 is functioning on the engine, it won't go into failsafe mode. My donor tracker has a 4 speed auto, but that will be disconnected and not used obviously. Since it is auto will it still go into failsafe since the transmission sensors are disconnected? I found a piggyback ecu that allows using the stock ECU in parallel and still have the protections in place for overboost and lean condition etc and the ability to control timing electronically. The reason i hope to be able to use the stock ecu is the IAC valve is stepper operated, and the ECU's im looking to use cant operate this and i feel like it could get extremely complicated to make the idle up functions work, as well as idle up for power steering and such. I'm ok with a CEL light as long as it runs fine (probably wont have it wired to a light anyways).
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - fixkick - 09-13-2016
So it looks like as long as the MAF, IAT, ECT, TPS, and VSS1 is functioning on the engine, it won't go into failsafe mode. (no body knows for sure, just the book tells you, )
My donor tracker has a 4 speed auto, but that will be disconnected and not used obviously. (why would it be disconnected?)me confused.
the 96 has separate TCM and will not shift right lacking stock ECU, (they talk,! ) i don't know the penalties,here,,,, at all.,
Since it is auto will it still go into failsafe since the transmission sensors are disconnected?
The TCM shares sensors with the ECU, (ect, and TPS are 2) and the ECU tells the TCM what engine rpm is, or the trans flat cant up shift.
the trans uses RPM and tail speed VSS2, sensor to shift. If the ECU cant see tail speed, it goes to limphome (tail is MPH)
I found a piggyback ecu that allows using the stock ECU in parallel and still have the protections in place for overboost and lean condition etc and the ability to control timing electronically. ( do they have proof with custmers happen running G16s')
The reason i hope to be able to use the stock ecu is the IAC valve is stepper operated,This is not true its a 12volt 15ohm 2 wire solenoid, PWM moduled at 200 hZ,
and the ECU's im looking to use cant operate this (correct for most) and i feel like it could get extremely complicated to make the idle up functions work, as well as idle up for power steering and such. why would you need idle up functions, dont ram steering in to stops, surely car has no AC, right?
are you using an Inter-cooler, and is that going in front of AC condenser?
I'm ok with a CEL light as long as it runs fine (probably wont have it wired to a light anyways). Limphome shuts down advanced, and id bet $100 the piggy back sure can not , get spark right if its going in and out of Failsafe. how could it.? Chaos is Chaos.
[/quote]
the arrogance of piggyback designers , is that they think they understand the ECU, THEY DON'T. (there are 53 markets and 15 years of G16s.
I bet they haven't tried them all. and for sure 1996, (the buggy year,)
In the 2 books one author stated, he had 2 choices, (after finding out above ) hire a team of software (firm) engineers to reverse engineer the ECU.
then fool it. after knowing all traps. (no lie some piggy backs work but when they dont, it can cost the lost of engine)
He said that takes to long and costs like $100,000 bucks, so we use real custom ecu, and not toy, mega-squirts. (THE NEWEST IS BETTER )
The pro, ECU, custom has no LIMP modes, and nor bad acts, (you do know stock ecu's can get lost right?) getting lost is long story but is easy to explain. later ill say.. the custom ECU has not DTC errors, so cant see errors at all, it only runs in SERVO mode. (with dash board)
back to ISC (or IAC electric)
if car has no A/T then you dont need idle regulation (the IAC is thermal, below TB), all stick drivers, need no such crutch, only A/T drivers.
one guy I know put an air valve on the dash, (air/vacuum bleed) and a label, "idle speed" the problem with A/T is moving the selector to drive from park.
this overloads the engine and may stall. so turn the dial to 1000 rpm; and shift to drive.(hehe_)
Point 2, you can buy a real stepper air valve from many places or off cars that have them. and the new ECU runs it, easy, you set rpm and trip points, easy.
and use that with real ECU.
the ECU to buy is HALTECH
These old ECU have this bug in it that it can get lost.
The ecu injects making wild assumptions
first on this car the MAF measure all air flows, and injects based on that, mostly. (and full time if the 02 is off line and goes to 12:1 AFR)
The ECU does not know or check fuel pressure, so if the fuel pressure goes over spec say bad FPR at 60psi., the ECU gets lost fast,
just goes super rich, if the 02 is online it tries, to pull in 14.7: one, and will never get there, it tries, and fails. what it does next , how knows, its LOST.
Keep in mind its programmed to keep the CAT working as and EPA prime directive, and may go to limphome it it can not do that.
when the CEL starts to flash, that is JUST THAT< , cat anti-melt prevention mode, or failsafe.
The truth is, don't use piggy backs. is always best, (blind trust is bad here,,, )
The sellers of piggy backs know the buyers can't afford real ECU, so have a captive audience and then hype away.... lies.
not once will they tell the bad side, the failures. (there are vast failures)
The ECU , reads the MAF constantly , what some piggy backs do is lie about the MAF output, (you sure cant unplug it, )
when not in boost its 1:1 and scaled down in boost.
when in boost they must over inject based on MAP (piggy) data and then scale the MAF to avoid it from topping out at ~4.5v (near 5v is failsafe .. )
Getting the MAF lies tuned right to fool the old ECU ,is a tap dance to hell. IMO "fun to watch at a distance yes." smoke em'
The old ECU thinks its injecting fuel, and is not. the piggy is. (by injector pulse intercede-meant or just raw rail pressure, both are lies to the old ECU)
The old ECU loading factors are all wrong, so load data to the trans is all wrong. (4speed AT) (maf data and RPM create internal load data)
the piggy back then takes over spark and fuel tables, the spark takes over the distributor , with OLD ecu unplugged from Distrib. The Piggy fires the ignitor direct. using its spark tables.
The TCM will never work right, under boost. (eating 200hp too)
I'm sure ive missed 100's of things that will be wrong, here.
for sure the 4sp transmission is "albatross around the neck" they do sell nice custom TCM and they work great, but again that is more money.
I'd put a big v6 in it, nothing beats displacement.
Keep in mind, this Suzuki is no Honddata, or toyota, with powerful, ECUs and tuning tools it's and underdog, nobody races, G16s. its a small club.
lots of Issues, and problems fooling old ECU,.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - fixkick - 09-13-2016
dont get me wrong, if you find a turn key setup, buy that and pray the old ECU dont go nuts.
there are some sold, but most eventually blow the engine,
this engine is no strong engine like the mazda 1.8L designed for boost.
not at all.
weak rods.
non forged pistons
and a hollow crank shaft pins.
and not piston bottom squirters.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - Agk007 - 09-13-2016
(09-13-2016, 11:40 AM)fixkick Wrote: So it looks like as long as the MAF, IAT, ECT, TPS, and VSS1 is functioning on the engine, it won't go into failsafe mode. (no body knows for sure, just the book tells you, )
My donor tracker has a 4 speed auto, but that will be disconnected and not used obviously. (why would it be disconnected?)me confused. I'm not going to use the 4 speed auto at all, i plan on bolting the 1.6 16v to the samurai 5 speed transmission.
the 96 has separate TCM and will not shift right lacking stock ECU, (they talk,! ) i don't know the penalties,here,,,, at all.,
Since it is auto will it still go into failsafe since the transmission sensors are disconnected?
The TCM shares sensors with the ECU, (ect, and TPS are 2) and the ECU tells the TCM what engine rpm is, or the trans flat cant up shift.
the trans uses RPM and tail speed VSS2, sensor to shift. If the ECU cant see tail speed, it goes to limphome (tail is MPH)
Since the TCU is what goes into fail safe, it communicates with the ECU to tell it so, so if the TCU is removed completely, wouldn't it just trip any codes transmission wise?
I found a piggyback ecu that allows using the stock ECU in parallel and still have the protections in place for overboost and lean condition etc and the ability to control timing electronically. ( do they have proof with custmers happen running G16s') I haven't found any yet using the AEM piggyback.
The reason i hope to be able to use the stock ecu is the IAC valve is stepper operated,This is not true its a 12volt 15ohm 2 wire solenoid, PWM moduled at 200 hZ, So is it just an open and close valve? no various positions?
and the ECU's im looking to use cant operate this (correct for most) and i feel like it could get extremely complicated to make the idle up functions work, as well as idle up for power steering and such. why would you need idle up functions, dont ram steering in to stops, surely car has no AC, right?
are you using an Inter-cooler, and is that going in front of AC condenser? I plan on using the 1.6 16v power steering pump and gear box on my samurai so i can have power steering, man handling the samurai with 33" tires is very tiresome offroad heheh. My samurai currently has AC, and i was planning on fitting it to the 16v as well as the power steering pump. (it has been done and a company makes the bracket to fit both). I won't be using an intercooler since i'm not running high levels of boost.
I'm ok with a CEL light as long as it runs fine (probably wont have it wired to a light anyways). Limphome shuts down advanced, and id bet $100 the piggy back sure can not , get spark right if its going in and out of Failsafe. how could it.? Chaos is Chaos.
the arrogance of piggyback designers , is that they think they understand the ECU, THEY DON'T. (there are 53 markets and 15 years of G16s.
I bet they haven't tried them all. and for sure 1996, (the buggy year,)
In the 2 books one author stated, he had 2 choices, (after finding out above ) hire a team of software (firm) engineers to reverse engineer the ECU.
then fool it. after knowing all traps. (no lie some piggy backs work but when they dont, it can cost the lost of engine)
He said that takes to long and costs like $100,000 bucks, so we use real custom ecu, and not toy, mega-squirts. (THE NEWEST IS BETTER )
The pro, ECU, custom has no LIMP modes, and nor bad acts, (you do know stock ecu's can get lost right?) getting lost is long story but is easy to explain. later ill say.. the custom ECU has not DTC errors, so cant see errors at all, it only runs in SERVO mode. (with dash board)
back to ISC (or IAC electric)
if car has no A/T then you dont need idle regulation (the IAC is thermal, below TB), all stick drivers, need no such crutch, only A/T drivers.
one guy I know put an air valve on the dash, (air/vacuum bleed) and a label, "idle speed" the problem with A/T is moving the selector to drive from park.
this overloads the engine and may stall. so turn the dial to 1000 rpm; and shift to drive.(hehe_)
Point 2, you can buy a real stepper air valve from many places or off cars that have them. and the new ECU runs it, easy, you set rpm and trip points, easy.
and use that with real ECU.
the ECU to buy is HALTECH I checked out the haltech ECU's and they're out of my price range, the cheapest one is $900 without a harness (a little out of my budget). I was looking at the Megasquirt 2, it is a standalone fully programmable ECU that has VR and Hall sensor inputs so i can use the existing hall in the distributor, it can drive the high impedance stock injectors (or larger for more fuel which i will need). It has functionality to control PWM idle valves and on/off idle up valves. I can use the existing TPS, coolant temp sensor, and IAT with this controller, i will have to use a different MAF sensor though for boost since the stock one would max out, also a wideband 02 sensor. Also it has overboost protection where it cuts fuel and spark, also it has a rev limiter. Also theres an option for Knock detection.
These old ECU have this bug in it that it can get lost.
The ecu injects making wild assumptions
first on this car the MAF measure all air flows, and injects based on that, mostly. (and full time if the 02 is off line and goes to 12:1 AFR)
The ECU does not know or check fuel pressure, so if the fuel pressure goes over spec say bad FPR at 60psi., the ECU gets lost fast,
just goes super rich, if the 02 is online it tries, to pull in 14.7: one, and will never get there, it tries, and fails. what it does next , how knows, its LOST.
Keep in mind its programmed to keep the CAT working as and EPA prime directive, and may go to limphome it it can not do that.
when the CEL starts to flash, that is JUST THAT< , cat anti-melt prevention mode, or failsafe.
The truth is, don't use piggy backs. is always best, (blind trust is bad here,,, )
The sellers of piggy backs know the buyers can't afford real ECU, so have a captive audience and then hype away.... lies.
not once will they tell the bad side, the failures. (there are vast failures)
The ECU , reads the MAF constantly , what some piggy backs do is lie about the MAF output, (you sure cant unplug it, )
when not in boost its 1:1 and scaled down in boost.
when in boost they must over inject based on MAP (piggy) data and then scale the MAF to avoid it from topping out at ~4.5v (near 5v is failsafe .. )
Getting the MAF lies tuned right to fool the old ECU ,is a tap dance to hell. IMO "fun to watch at a distance yes." smoke em'
The old ECU thinks its injecting fuel, and is not. the piggy is. (by injector pulse intercede-meant or just raw rail pressure, both are lies to the old ECU)
The old ECU loading factors are all wrong, so load data to the trans is all wrong. (4speed AT) (maf data and RPM create internal load data)
the piggy back then takes over spark and fuel tables, the spark takes over the distributor , with OLD ecu unplugged from Distrib. The Piggy fires the ignitor direct. using its spark tables.
The TCM will never work right, under boost. (eating 200hp too)
I'm sure ive missed 100's of things that will be wrong, here.
for sure the 4sp transmission is "albatross around the neck" they do sell nice custom TCM and they work great, but again that is more money.
I'd put a big v6 in it, nothing beats displacement.
Keep in mind, this Suzuki is no Honddata, or toyota, with powerful, ECUs and tuning tools it's and underdog, nobody races, G16s. its a small club.
lots of Issues, and problems fooling old ECU,.
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I'm just trying to figure out what i will do. I love electronic tinkering and programming so this is right up my alley. It seems there are several out there running Megasquirt on their suzuki vehicles turboed. Thank you for answering my questions so far. Its a steep learning curve.
RE: 1996 Geo Tracker OBDII Questions - fixkick - 09-24-2016
racing is expensive hobby. end to end.
not too many out there, just a few.
best is to find the few, and hook up,.
and get their tune.
the tuning on a dyno can be as much as that haltech
the only free lunch (after the parts paid for) is copying someones G16 setup, end to end, and his tune tables.
most will go , gee, pay me form my tables.