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+--- Thread: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) (/thread-2002-chevy-tracker-2-0-no-fire-please-help)
2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - 02trackman - 07-29-2016
2002 chevy tracker
2.0
2wd automatic
I picked this unit up for a couple hundred bucks and it's really nice. Previous owner had assumed he ran out of gas because it would not crank for him. I have NO fire at the coils/plugs. I replaced the CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.....still no fire!
I have checked fuses and relays and to best of my knowledge everything is good.
How about the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR?
does it control fire to the coils? If so I believe it is located behind the flywheel which means I will either have to pull the motor or the transmission. Is there any way of testing sensor before pulling motor or transmission to see if in fact the crankshaft position sensor is good/bad?
And also if anyone else can lead me in the direction I need to be headed if I am way off course trying to diagnose the problem please don't hesitate to tell me.
Thanks in advance.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - fixkick - 07-29-2016
(07-29-2016, 06:45 AM)02trackman Wrote: 2002 chevy tracker
2.0
2wd automatic
welcome:
2.0L J20 engine twin cam, DOHC., has 4 COP coils on top, USA car has those,
all 4 dead or just 1, (matters, if all 4 are dead) fuses is next.
do not pull the aluminum body CMP sensor, only pull the plastic part, or timing can be a huge huge difficulty.
did you look to see if the cams turn? yet.??????????????????????(seen down oil filler hole, i think is easy... forget, if that works. that view.
best is fuses first, then scan it with OBD2, if you crank it for 5 full seconds and the PCM does not report, bad cmp or ckp then they are good.
do not pull the CMP until you ask how to do this,its not like changing a light bulb, let me explain the timing freeze jumper if it has one.
my 04 they deleted that precious jumper and guess what its a suzuki scan tool to set that. ask how to avoid all that. its on my sparks dead page, J20.
me too, I love dead cars. all things dead, in fact, cheap,, fun to fix too.
I picked this unit up for a couple hundred bucks and it's really nice.
Previous owner had assumed he ran out of gas because it would not crank for him.
it cranks ok, right?, but dont start ! and dont run,, starting takes, spark at all 4 cop coils.
I have NO fire (spark) fire is 2nd., after spark. and fire takes fuel too. at the coils/plugs. I replaced the CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.....still no fire!
Bad move, if you unbolted the large alum, body CMP, do not do that. if yours has the black, sensor on that body< small, that can be changed easy.
did you just do that part? the small black part?
I have checked fuses and relays and to best of my knowledge everything is good.
How about the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR? (why pull engine, or trans, tell me>?) ever heard of an oBD2 scan tool all tools made since 1996 work.
why not use the best tool to do this, and not guess.
DTC P03xx errors. or RPM dead.>>>>
does your tacho meter move a tiny bit cranked?
does it control fire to the coils? The ECU will tell you any time the CKP or CMP misses, even 1 pulse in 10 or is dead. scan it.
yes, the PCM makes all spark and lacking timing data, guess what, no spark, but is the cam turning, maybe the last guy ran it with the poor chain screaming for help....
check compression yet that is first.
after(fuses, cams turn, no DTC errors
then compression, over 180PSI. x4 , wide open throttle.
If so I believe it is located behind the flywheel which means I will either have to pull the motor or the transmission.
i cant believe you';d do that and not scan first., why, 10+ hours labor for the want of $20 tool?
Is there any way of testing sensor before pulling motor or transmission to see if in fact the crankshaft position sensor is good/bad?
sure scan it, same in 1996 and same to 2016 same answer, you cant fix cars without a scan tool , or go broke fast.
And also if anyone else can lead me in the direction I need to be headed if I am way off course trying to diagnose the problem please don't hesitate to tell me.
sure scan it, while cranking, for 5 fulls seconds, then release key,do not turn off yet, and let the scan tool do its job. tell you why there is no spark
there are key fuses in the cab and in the engine bay finder box.
Thanks in advance.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - fixkick - 07-29-2016
cranks fast no start.
at least 1 cop is dead, but if all are dead, that be like super good to know.
FI fuse good?
IG fuse good? takes 2 fuses, and 3 for memory of PCM to work. dome fuse is the memory fuse.
CEL lamp glow at key on, if not its not going to start. (fuses are blown if CEL is dead.)
next is what, cams spin, do they,? (oil fill hole?)
did you remove this or this. part of CMP
see this,
see that black thing, hope you only touched it. hope.
see that slot, dont touch that bolt ever, or if savvy match mark it day one get the car, so it can go back like you found it.
on the newer sidekicks/vitara, they removed the timing freeze jumper. making cam CMP timing super had to set.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/J20/cmp.jpg
if cams make noise or its chain or compression is low , and timing is way off, the PCM does not make spark if the chain slips.
its programmed not to, after all there are 4 parts to go out of time here, 2 cams, 1 crank and 1 cmp sensor way off.
id have done compression first. if the cam chains sound ok.
if compression way wrong on 1 or all. then it might be a very expensive repair. nice to know that before spending lots of money are sensors, and finding out engine is a goner.
this is an interference engine, so if the valves bend they can bend more and more and damage cascades, even cranked.
so we do shop air, cylinder leak down test to see if there is no damage first on this class of engine.
this i done by hand (turn crank by hand to TDC, measure leak rate per tool guide) , with no stater key, preventing damage from progressing.
the G16 has no problems like this. crank away no worry.
this is what I call a FORD, found on road dead, no idea why or its history. (fun !)
id do the leak down. but since you are cranking it , its maybe ok.... now.
id have done the above and scanned it, first.
The PCM tells you why spark ends. it does so.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - fixkick - 07-29-2016
tell me you only did this.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/J20/cmp99+.JPG
see this is the only safe way.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - 02trackman - 07-29-2016
I have not yet checked to see if cam is turning.
I also only removed the black sensor not the aluminum housing whenever I changed cam sensor. I will hook my scanner up tomorrow and turn it over for 5 seconds and see what that gives me on info. Would I go under "live data" in my scanner while I am trying to crank the tracker?
(07-29-2016, 08:20 AM)fixkick Wrote: tell me you only did this.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/J20/cmp99+.JPG
see this is the only safe way.
Yes I only removed the sensor.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - 02trackman - 07-30-2016
All of my coils are dead. Just checked them. I cannot see cam thru oil filler hole.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - fixkick - 07-30-2016
1: fuses good.? both IG coil and FI good. (zero ohms across them or 12vdc on both sides key on?) yes, no? check fuses first.
2: the ECU has a CEL lamp that must glow key on, tell you you ECU has power, is the lamp glowing, if not fuses are blown or worse.
3: OK above is ok, it must be, or all this is just a wasted effort. computers cant compute , with zero power. does the CEL glow, ?????????? KEY ON<?????????????
4: next the CMP and CKP most work and be timed correctly or there will be no spark or is way off, time. depends now if dead they are, or just of time,
5: next? if signals out of CMP are dead, may be the cams are dead. since the oil filler is not clear view this, then check compression, (i do this on all old cars, saves me big money this)
its just $20 tool, one potted plant. (so cheap, unlike me a lad, like $400 in todays cash.
if the engine ,is toast , i scrap car, or find a new engine, or???? see? why tests tell you what needs to be done next or not? parts and time wasted on the dead. is not always good.
or pull the valve cover, and watch cams?, nah , its only 30min work to do a compression test. why skip this vital information.
it has 2 cam s, and if the big chain drops off, both cams go dead. (2 chains there)
and then valves bend.... what if they did.? whole now be the time to know this, before replacing all sensors, CMP< CKP, all cops and the ECU, ????? lacking a scan tool can be super expensive guessing..
then RPM is zero on the DASH tachometer, cranked 300rpm is crank speed, and in the scan tool zero rpm???
and DTC P03xx codes showing dead CMP< , but CKP works because its crank and cranks does spins so no errors there, most times never, we dont ever see CKP fail here, ever.
but both can be unplugged sure.
the ECU will not make spark lacking the inputs of CMP and CKP. because, it dont know where crank TDC is, nor where the cams are, so cant know which cylinder to fire.
it does all firing of spark and all spark advance all under computer control and nothing else.
all new cars do the same thing,
the G16 runs with CKP unplugged, oddly !, shocks many but the ECU cries bloody murder , DTC plenty.
this engine has no distributor and the CKP is 100% needed, as is CMP.
or NO SPARK HAPPENS.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - fixkick - 07-30-2016
If i got a free car, first thing, id do is make sure the valves are not bent.
its is an interference engine.
that means if you think the cams are out of time, for ANY REASON, stop and say to self
1: should i make it worse.
2: or do that leak down test. like we do on all interference engines.
we do that by hand using shop air.
we turn to it TDC firing, by hand and turn on the shop air and see the leak rate, OMG its 100% leaking, and hear it leaking to the air cleaner (bent valves)
it is what it is, and if cranking doesnt make a huge noise, the the compression test is safe. to do.
but... im not there and cant hear it crank,
in a pro shop, they tow it end and go , leakdown test. (dead engine) (after checking fuses, and that CEL lamp) key on.
the start can in fact bend the valves.
its a deal with twin cam engines, with some exceptions, my 1.8L Mazda is free running, engine. but not the J20 or even the V6.
RE: 2002 chevy tracker 2.0 (NO FIRE PLEASE HELP) - 02trackman - 07-30-2016
All fuses are good!!!
When turning over it shows no rpm on scan tool
Nor does the tach needle in dash move at all.
The CEL lamp you are speaking of....????
Is this something that will.be prelit in the dash as soon as I turn the key on? There is nothing in the cluster that lights up and says CEL.