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+--- Thread: Fixing the Shifting Issues (/thread-fixing-the-shifting-issues)
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-31-2014
very good
the noise is forward,its not the shaft splines i can see they are clean and sharp and good, the look.
you can here it make noise by hand , that is bad. but what gear, did you use 4th like i said, this locks the tranny up, front to rear, and the clutch is locked to the flywheel.
in this mode, 4th only the 4th gear dogs, are all play, every bit and must not have any..... you need to post the cars status at each video. I presume rear wheels off the ground.
and the trans mission status, and (nobody in drivers seat) right>?
play on axles are normal !, but yours is crazy too much... wow.
but I cant see tires, i they move, that easy, if yes, ok, if not bad axle.
you tests pass. they look good and the play is not added top by hand on end of trans shift, all good
conclusion the 5sp was in neutral or not in 4th gear. so play is normal.
the rear axle is gone.
do tell trans mode, ??? please.
4th gear locks the front 4th gear dogs
the only play in this mode, is the clutch disc, hub spine, or the clutch disc springs (shock springs) are gone bad or broken up)
4th gear
see part 38 this slides over syncrho#41 and locks to part #1 rear dogs.. its not 1:1 locked up front to rear, we all it 4th gear but is not gear, just a lock up,
ignore 4wd warning, the main shaft on yours is very long.
![[Image: 5thGear.JPG]](http://www.fixkick.com/tranny/5thGear.JPG)
my guess is your rear axle side gears (and or spider gears) are toast.
but i cant see the tires, so is just a guess.
to show play, one most see both ends at once. (axles) on axles 3 end, Left /right and pinion. all at once.
normal axle pinion play is about 1/8" -1/4"
FSM
http://www.acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v1-4b-pdf.htm
the normal pinion to ring gear play is total backlash is .015" max. (just the ring/pinion)
the remaining play is the totality of side gears, and there pins, and the actual axle spline play. added up, they stack up.
all answers stock axles, no lockers or other parts , in there, like LSD or ?
the worst axle is the Detroit locker with 45 degrees of play. this is not that. (they have a loose, locker setup)
mine is, 1/4" play; rotational , tires on ground, in neutral. at rear axle flange.
now.
my axle is stock open axle, no LSD< no other closed lockers of any kind, just gears. diffr.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-31-2014
when play gets excessive (sure sign of doom) the velocities increase (the gap allows acceleration) and when it bottoms out, bam NOISE.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-31-2014
(08-30-2014, 11:45 PM)Vitalie Wrote: Ok I took the propeller off to do all the tests.
Yoke only to tail shaft: http://youtu.be/ZITiQO6qa98
Rear main shaft test for noise: http://youtu.be/cu6JzB8D4ME yes it behave the same in every gear including 4th and neutral
Differential test for rattle an wear: http://youtu.be/O7wmAL0fwZY the wheel spin
Yoke to transmission test: http://youtu.be/nZan1AZ938o
Yoke examination: http://youtu.be/4Og7ruy65Mk
So you can see that there is excessive play in differential and some in the transmission case. The yoke and the joints do not have play.
what do I have to do to get this resolved? A new differential and a transmission? That's a lot?
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-31-2014
the axle test.
i cant see the tires, in the video,.,,,
are the off the ground? ,
lets start from the rear forward , 1 step at time,
since i cant see wide angle.
i need to see what that axle front pinion does, with tires on the ground...
this allows seeing total free play (slop).. 1/4" IS GOOD, 2inch like seen in the video is bad, but we cant see the tires.
put the tires on the ground or chock them up so they can not move, at all, then turn the pinon, CCW and CW, to see total slop.
my guess is the 10degree slop in 4th gear, is old clutch hub where, this is 90% chance, seen many with that, so ignore it if the clutch still works
but he clutch is new... but when you replaced it did you check the front spline damage>?
and with transmission out, put tranny in 4th(at least) and check for front or rear play, ? by hands on feel>?
I can not explain the 4th gear slop. the dogs lock 100% almost no play in them, unless like 300k miles on it.????
rear axle....
i will tell you , to check for play , you need to have one end locked up.
the axle has 3 ends.
lock 2, of them up, and twist the other.
lock the tires, to the ground
if drive shaft is back , in place , is it?
put the tranny in neutral and twist.
i looked again.
the first tire wiggle test is ok. they all do that. the axle ratio is 5.12 to 1: so at the tire, there is 5:1 reduction in 4th gear.(1:1 IT IS) so you are seeing all play , from tire to clutch plate. in 4th. there will be lots of play. doing that.
at video # one,many posts back , was done in gear, making the test no good.
by no good, you need to check he axle pinion with tires on ground, and tranny in neutral.
then the above, axle test is tires up, and it fooled me, i see it has 1/4" play and you then force it way hard moving wheels. you did , didnt you?
so i think the axle is ok. now , I had to watch the video many times to see what was going on,, you were wheels up. (no problem, ok.?)
why not post full car status, at each video so the viewer dont need to guess?
reboot, DO OVER< day one, NOISE ONE.
so the complaint is drive line noise.
mine made noise. (few months back)_
BUT only moving, (a story)
so K cant find it at all, turning by hand, (normal play , happens to be normal, and when it bottoms out, all cars make noise. this is normal). as the FSM page even says, "all axles and drive line parts make noise.:"
but excessive noise, that is the topic.
i could not drive and have my "trunk monkey: hang on the frame to find this with is cheap doctors $5 stethoscope, my monkey is way too smart, (and can go on strike, LOL)
so out comes the electronic stethoscope seen here.
on my noise page.
now my monkey drives and i sit side kick, passenger, and listen to the head phones to the microphone, clamp at the trans tail casing.
its purrs like kitting, it's good (so very happy wife dont need a $2000 slush box)
i move it (mr MIKE) to the axle pig , front end. (pumpkin pinion bearing bosses) (i use huge hose clamps and a 90deg. metal brace to clip my MICK Clip there.
i drive it, plurrs, but something is not right , sounds like far off train coming down on me. (all bearings purr, listen to all bearings on car, and they purr) try the alternator as 1 example. lean buy doing this)
I move the mike mto left rear, behind the brake backing plate, same. purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i move to the right rear side brake backing plate area, OMG, the bearing is screaming.
4 trips around the block 1/2hrs work and the OFFENDER IS FOUND.
on another car, all tests passed, leaving this,,,,,,,,but found a bad u-joint, it was just starting to go bad, but i could not make it move funny by hand yet. early failures.
end story
http://www.fixkick.com/NOISE.html
i steelman is cheap $35?
i have this tool. it works like magic. (uses wires but they can be tied down)
http://www.amazon.com/Steelman-97220-EngineEAR-Diagnostic-Listening/dp/B00396FBRY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409426944&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=automotive+electronic+stethoscope++Steelman%C2%AE+%23+97220
you said long ago the tranny is the noise source.
my guess is , it is.
for sure only you can tell that.
but if that is true?
then :
1: trans bad.
2 bearing in it bad. (allowing the main shaft to walk up and down or side to side)
3: the 4th gear (has least play ,near zero) is bad, the dogs are GONE. worn bad.
4: the clutch pilot shaft has very worn splines. clutch is new, so only you saw them...
one more trick , haven't done this since a kid
console off
shifter boot off.
stethoscope stabbing the top of transmission driving, (other person driving)
very easy to do , the hole is huge there.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-31-2014
a word of warning
bad U-joints LOVE to telegraph sound, that will fool any one.,
ive shot gunned many u-joints to prove they are NOT bad.
after all buying a new tranny for a u-joint is very sad day.
but the dang ujoint can telegraph noise to the top of tranny box.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-31-2014
Ok. I straightened up. I understand better now when you say let's test one thing at a time.
I shot again. This time I am focusing on axle only.
Neutral. Wheels locked: http://youtu.be/2oQ15bBF4Tw
One wheel locked other of the ground. 4th gear on.: http://youtu.be/kNK4qaBFa5Q
The same with the other wheel.: http://youtu.be/eVnxGgzkUSM
You can see the play is minimal before wheels turn I was surprised.
Ok here I am trying to show how it bangs and kicks when I let the clutch when shifting. The test is only reverse and the first. I exaggerated by letting the clutch faster than normal to focus on it better.
http://youtu.be/dBIAR3NPX-0 at the end you can here it very well clunk.
Sorry for the quality. I did everything by myself one hand driving one filming.
Do we exclude the axle from the problems?
Thanks
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-31-2014
ok good
first video same as mine. same thing on mine.
2nd vid , ok
no sorry, do best you can.. you are.
#3 vid
nasty sound. are you, dumping clutch, over and over, not just slipping it.
?
in trans, i think.
axle looks good.
but only if the sound is in the transmission, with stethoscope, touched, i bet it is but, what do I know, im 3d deaf here. i cant tell directions. with you tube sound.
id pull the console and boot. and start listening.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - mayberry97 - 03-23-2015
I changed my transmission oil in my '98 last week. Went with full synthetic at the advice of the guy at the parts store. After putting that in, had real difficulty getting into second gear. Then i found this thread...wish i read it first. Got rid of the synthetic and put in non-synth...now shifts as smooth as always. So much more fun to drive.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 03-23-2015
sorry that happened, and yes, the synchro's are tuned for dino oil.
i see newer cars that run synthetic now, are running carbon, special synchromesh rings....