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+--- Thread: preparing for the future (/thread-preparing-for-the-future)
RE: preparing for the future - fixkick - 06-12-2013
cylinder 1 is dead. if lash is good on #1 then a burned up valve. most likely (or blown head gasket at #1)
sorry for your loss. (funeral).!!
RE: preparing for the future - dynabill - 06-12-2013
Thanks for the wishes older sons friend died in motorcycle accident, twenty one years old was a sad deal
dang i am not sure which would be better, I think either way it is a new head. would that make cyl 4 bad too? or is it blown in both places. do you have sources for heads, how about fleabay trade in places i guess i could try replacing valves myself, altho I've never done it..... ok thanks jerry
oh yea i have pics of the plugs in the order they came out of the cylinders, would that be of any use now?
RE: preparing for the future - fixkick - 06-12-2013
oops
"and 4 30psi:
1 and 4 and flat lined, so lash set wrong or head is warped like banana shape.
or both cylinder have bad valves.
you can set the leash , the put a hose in to the intake TB ,under butterfly plate or at vacuum booster port nipple,, and other end to ear.
turn crank slowly and hear all 8 intakes valves, at once, no hissing. our gushing.
the exhaust ports can do be done like that, too, one at a time, (make sure lash is right first, so as not to find bad lash hard way) that is ,same hose in ear.
once sure valves leak , its inspect head time.
but ..
( if rings are bad the oil test trick during compression test , causes compression to rise real fast proving it so.) but not from 0, sorry. that is bad breach.
all these comments assume a real intake stroke happens and full compression stroke, and that he cam is not timing backwards.
RE: preparing for the future - dynabill - 06-13-2013
Well that wasn't the best news I was looking for, but I will do the partial tear down and check the lash, and listen and hope for the best. it now kind of makes me concerned for the pistons, if motor in fact has 281,5xx miles they could also be shot. I will only be able to use 96+ block? because of ckp? although 2 and 3 cylinders had good compression. what would make the cam time backwards, i think i read a post about it a few years ago. at any rate thanks for the help. Cheers Bill
RE: preparing for the future - fixkick - 06-13-2013
(06-13-2013, 12:10 PM)dynabill Wrote: Well that wasn't the best news I was looking for, but I will do the partial tear down and check the lash, and listen and hope for the best. it now kind of makes me concerned for the pistons, if motor in fact has 281,5xx miles they could also be shot. I will only be able to use 96+ block? because of ckp? although 2 and 3 cylinders had good compression. what would make the cam time backwards, i think i read a post about it a few years ago. at any rate thanks for the help. Cheers Billyour using the V8 style engine compression gauge, are you sure you can get a good seal way down in side them wells.?
id use screw in, you can also do a cleak dwn test. and find out who leaks.
the 92-95 blocks work great, if you swap pan and oil pump.
no your can is not timed wrong. as 180PSI is hot as a pistol on 2 jugs.
i usually just check lash on the front failing jug, if perfect, then i listen to the sounds. with a rubber hose to my ear, im always curious as to the leakage path.
that tells me how much i need to repair, (case in point
1: i hear intakes leak, with hose, stuffed in plenum. ,bad valves. are they bent? I think? something to check careful with head off.
2: i hear the exh.port leak, more common, ok just needs valve grind. (rubber hose at Exh port 1)
3: i hear leaks in the crank case? hose in oil filler, cap hole, or stuffed deep in the valve area oil drain back holes. Rings stuck in lands or broken up.
4: i hear air leak as i walk hose around head gasket, oops , it might only need a head shave and new gasket.
see FYI here
http://www.fixkick.com/compressiontest.html#leakdown
you can even use the rubber hose 1 more way, water pump off, hose in the place pump came from, water jackets
turn crank by hand , hear hissing here, that is a cracked block into to the jackets, all for the cost of a 10cent hose.
your engine can talk to you.
if the head gasket leaks , you take off head, and do 2 things.
1: measure with a mech. steel ruler , for the .001" rule of warping. per foot so , .0015 is max warp, using a feeler guage.
the book shows cross wise, this ruller test.
if that passes, you are happy , no need to shave head.
then i do the combustion leak test. head off. I fill them with fuel, and see i the valves leak, if they look burned up, skip this test, obvious.
we do this on new head too, to see of the head shop was on out to lunch that day.
my new head pulls nd hot it does 195PSI.
![[Image: compression_9usd.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/tools/compression_9usd.jpg)
the leak down test is useless on a flat dead cylinder. but the pressure hose can be used to find the source of that leak.
one tricks is to hold the crank bolt, hard at Firing point TDC.
then attach the hose, and put 20psi in the hose. using tool reg.
then listen to valve ports. ext.
then listen to the crank case and water pump ports, as you walk the piston from TDC firing ,down the power stroke, as you hear the BTC the exh.
valve opens early so avoid that point. but before that, it must not leak. as the compression cycle , is walked by hand.
you can hear the rings sometime fail, as you hit scored cylinder walls. or a crank in same.
why would i do that.? easy, i see a cracked block, etc, im out looking for a used block ,pronto. or a whole motor.
can be real pain ,putting a good new (rebuilt ) head on a bad block. so i let my tools tell me how bad things, might be.
but dead compression on #1 so dead, in fact, many of my tests above are useless, cept exit path.
good luck on you motor ! happy trails
RE: preparing for the future - dynabill - 06-14-2013
jerry thanks for the info, I may have toget to that soon. What I decided to check the lash and set it as done the pro way. i set E to 12pm,timing mark on crank to zero,checked the lash on #4 (ditsy was pointing to 7pm) all heels were off the valves, i checked clearance with .006 feeler gauge and had to adjust exhaust to with in specs, they were tight. (I wish i would have check to see how tight they were now, but didnt. I turned the crank 180 degrees, so cam e was at 6pm. i went to check lash on cyl 2. but the heels were not in the right place, some of the lobes were keeping the valves open, when I knew darn well that all of them should be in such a position to allow setting the lash. I made sure initially that I was following your pages, starting at cyl 4. I went in countless times and checked, but something is wrong. I didn't get pictures, but I will start from scratch and get them tomorrow. This making me wonder that maybe it could be out 180 degrees, wrong cam is on the head, or maybe someone had a new keyway cut into the crank. At this point i am at a loss. I had my neighbor there and he witnessed the whole thing. So I don't know, I am massively confused at this point. at any rate hope you have some insight on this.cheers Bill
RE: preparing for the future - fixkick - 06-14-2013
something is wrong, oops,,, cam timing is first. all else, depends on that.
when the suzuki way fails drop the the 1,3,4,2 way, do #1 first, then #1 its slower but is more revealing.
Emark 6pm , crank at TDC mark 12pm, you see all valve rocker are on the cam heels of #1 am lobes, (id rock the crank +-10deg, to be sure im on heels of cam, then set lash.
turn crank 180 degrees (normal rotation facing fire wall) and #3 fire. (on heels of #3 ) set lash
repeat 180D CW for #3
land one more turn for #2. if each step works and each is on the heels compression hits 170 min.
i think you already did all that ,
is cam cog, key on the E hub slot.
is crank key still present , and not damaged.? your post 13 shows it to be perfect.
dont pull that head yet,,
Plan 1
what id do is forget the other 3 cylinder, since #1 is dead, get #1 working. and is less of a bend over, (less back pain)
E cog, spoke 6pm, ,crank TDC at mark. (using a soda straw, in #1 spark hole) jog crank a tad , see if piston top really is, at TDC , if not, oops. (key damage on crank )
if that test passes. set lash on #1 , and check heels #1 cam, ,then do compression test on #1 , i bet it now passes.
the cam key must be in the E slot. and not sheared or missing.
good luck !
PS. when setting the lash, the valves most not be IN MOTION. that is , when the crank is jogged a tad, the valves are not moving (all parts of valve and rocker must be motion free, or the cam is not timed right at all)
key points:
1: crank key is perfect.
2: belt timed right?
3: cam cog key in the E slot. I see it here ( i see the key )
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/ezgallery.php?action=view&id=40
oops i failed you before. i forgot to look closer.
here is a real cog, and the photo above shows your key is in the I slot , why does it look like that?
here is the cog,
![[Image: sprocket1.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/sprocket1.jpg)
then yours.
see what i mean? why is that key there. that is wrong.
![[Image: 153_02_06_13_3_58_35.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/153_02_06_13_3_58_35.jpeg)
the photo is too far back and i also can tell air from key, in the photo limited world.
i see the I mark hidden under the text words, GEAR under EA.
i the photo was back a tad, i could tell which of the 2 holes had metal. (key)
RE: preparing for the future - fixkick - 06-15-2013
ok , cam and crank keys good.
so at cam cog 6pm down, for #1 firing is the cam heels not moving the #1 valves, and lash good, if yes, check compression there. on #1 , if bad, end of story. if true/ SORRY ! i hope if true, is only a burned valve.
RE: preparing for the future - dynabill - 06-15-2013
yes the lash was bad on both the exhaust, slot to adjust moved almost 1/4 of a turn, on both cyclinders 1 and four. I just set lash on new method above. i set 1cyl first. ditsy at 1pm, i just turned cranck 180 degrees. to adjust what I thought was supposed to be cyl 3, but cyl 4 is @ tdc ditsy at 7pm, lash is good(i set this last night) , I will turn it another 180 and see where it lands. I will add to this post asap. i know what i was doing wrong now, I was watching the cam wheel and rotating it 180 degrees and that was turning the crank 360 degrees. so that puts it on me for not folling directions correctly. so now I will start over and do it right. at this point I have 3cyl tdc because I rotated crank 180 degrees and that put the cam E at 9pm. Sorry for my failure on this jerry. It makes sense to me know. i checked lash on it and the exhaust is also tight on 3cyl. i will post more later
Ok I have it in my head finally, I ran thru all of the cylinders again and set lash on all of them to .006 It is done, and right this time, haha. so now I will check compression, and I do have the compresion gauge that you showed above, it screws in to the spark hole with a rubber gasket.
Compression test was still bad I actually got 30 on the 1cyl haha, and 4cyl was the same. so it looks like there is some valve work in my future, or just a new head. guess I'll figure it out soon.
On another note the stainless steel down pipe i got off of ebay fit and lined up perfect with the stock exhaust manifold. here is the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/321030198059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 . I dont think I will have any problems with it lining up with the calimini that just got here. I'll figure that out later. Cheer s Bill
RE: preparing for the future - fixkick - 06-17-2013
head bolt stuck? you say.
if you shear it and it break off deep in the block, you be unhappy camper.
heat it let it cool, try gently, repeat,
or at wits end use heat and turn, gently.
if that that fails, may be the impact gun.
had one snap going in once, the worst feeling at the end of a long job. (snapped before spec, torque , )
im crossing fingers, now......