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+--- Thread: Fixing the Shifting Issues (/thread-fixing-the-shifting-issues)
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-13-2014
I have the Purple right now in the trany and when I changed 6 months ago I thought there was some improvement, but since I have more problems with the clutch that didn't help overall for me. I am still grinding when downshifting but hopefully that is not related to the transmission itself. Also when cold it is stiffer and more grinds.
I just got the RedLine MT-90 and will switch when a clutch job done. just read some positive reviews and decided to try it. Though some were Pro Purple.
I also was trying to make sure that for warmer climates like Houston Texas where rarely gets beyond freezing what will be the best viscosity grades other than the 75W -90 recommended in the book.
Thanks
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - cosmic_splatter - 08-13-2014
Vitalie,
Those are my same results with the purple. When the engine is cold and I have 75 degree ambient, I get grinds on down shift If I don't count in my head one, one thousand. If I wait a second, it shifts fine. One I drive for about 10 minutes, everything is fine. Downshifting into second is the worse. I may get a grind when cold if I don't wait the 1 second.
I may wait a month using the purple to see if things change. If they don't, it's coming out. I don't care how much money I spent on the stuff. I'm not going to let it grind away my tranny.
I think fixkick's recommendation is spot on...go back to non synthetic.
John
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-13-2014
John
To avoid grinds I had to find the hot spot in this trany, matching the speed and rpms. Here is my pattern in shifting. 1st - 2nd 5-15mph 1500rpms 1s delay
2nd-3rd. 20-25mph 2700rpms half s delay (don't let the rpms go down bellow 2200 or will grind or above 3000 the same)
3d-4th 30-35mph 2700rpms half s delay (the 4th is my favorite as dosent grind coming from 5th, I usually use it to slow down a bit before entering a corner, while performing the turn the speed is to low 15mph for the 4th so I rev up the engine to 3000 and shift in 3rd to accelerate.
4th- 5th 40-45mph 2700rpms 1s delay.
I know it may look a little hideous but if I stick to this for a while it becomes subconscious.
I also double cluch sometimes usually in cold.mornings helps the 2nd.
Funny how we have to put extra work just to have that smooth shifting no matter what.
Thanks
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - cosmic_splatter - 08-13-2014
Vitalie,
There are several people on the suzuki forums that switched to ATF fluid and are raving about the results. All their issues went away.. Fixkick, would atf fluid be safe for these trannys?
John
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sidekick-escudo-vitara-geo-tracker/132561-purple-oil-5speed-causing-2nd-gear.html#post803321
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-13-2014
too thin,
and now all the synchro's grind. IMO
controversial to the max. and brand name religion, i avoid....
it wont hurt the gears, or bearings on such a small hp engine or the light load 1000lbs car.
but the synchro's are tuned for GL4, and ATF is very thin , how is the cup /cone interface going to work better, with light oil.? especially worn?
ATF is based off of 5w oil, i think, most GL4 is like off 30w.
my guess, is some have been running GL5 that have huge GL5, EP additives, in there, that mess up the shifting. (makes the shifts balky and slow)
so try ATF and sure it works better?
real GL4 does not have those EP additives. i think this is the problem.
it not want to risk my tranny running ATF, the wrong lube.
may cars, with M/T use ATF
some even had to switch back to GL4 due to overheated 5th gears. (found car TSB';s)
some had to switch from GL4 to ATF because it had a pump (wow) that overloaded cold.
some tranny use ATF (mt) due to : They use a three piece fibrous clutch type synchro, (not found here) (non brass syncrho is totally different system)
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-18-2014
Change the cluch this weekend.
I encoutered couple of problems. First I stripped both transmission plugs so I was not able to drain it so I went ahead and did it anyway. Suprisingly the flywheel was in good shape. The friction disc was pretty worn and the pressure plates fingers had a very bad groove from the release bearing witch was moving pretty hard on the shaft.
It leaked oil of course from the output maybe half a quart. So I need to figure how the get the plugs out.
Also the breather hose , I couldn't see where it connects to the engine. I found a plastic top on the floor after pulled the trany out that fitted perfectly on the hose end so I just left it like that. Was guessing here.
Took if for a spin and What a difference. Everything is so much smoother. The third still grinds when down shifting. But I am also low on oil 25% if not more. so till I figure the plugs there is still hope.
Thanks
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-18-2014
congrats !
yes those 2 plugs are 10mm not 3/8" inch, metric monsters. the 3/8" is .5mm too small. or 9.5"
suzuki still sells them.
i had to weld them like this.
the breather does not connect to the engine, the hose had an anti rain cap on it day 1, most are log lost,.
3rd synro is very worn. or is low on oil.
![[Image: custom-oil-filler1w.JPG]](http://www.fixkick.com/tranny/custom-oil-filler1w.JPG)
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-19-2014
I went to a shop and they had the right size tool. took both plugs out and changed the oil to Red Line MT-90.
I also checked the cable adjustment while the car was up and it felt looser than I did it just last night.
So the question is when cold is it tighter or it just got loose a bit?
Other than that it shits much better but to down shift in 3 I have to let it slow down to at least 15mph or to rev the engine just a bit not to grind. Syncros
I believe this the most can be done other than rebuilding the transmission or getting another one.
Thanks for the big support here.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - fixkick - 08-20-2014
the 10mm tool does fit perfectly, but most old suzuki is long ago, wrecked with 3/8" drive
off my hard to find parts page is the tool (end of page) 3 sellers.
2 for 5 bucks
http://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-2049-Sockets-2-Piece/dp/B008TOHAVG/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1361794684&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=Square+Head+Drain+Plug+Sockets
down shifting is worse case on all sychro's ive owned many car that i had to learn, dont down shift. if possible.
a worn syncho , is just that, after all it works 2> 3 up shifted, so that is nice.
it just a cup and a cone , the cup has groves, once the groves are worn , then it takes longer to do the SYNC.
and way longer, going down shifts. that is because the 2 items to SYNC are going much faster , differentially.
only trying differ, oil can help and not using SYN oil, syn oil can be too slippery for this old syncro. use dino coil use real GL4 .
the syncro, was designed and tuned buy the engineer for dino lube.
and never SYN lube. show me bottle of that in 1988 (design day)
Ruffles has Ridges but so does.????
the 5speed FSM , book (free) lid off checking the synro gap, if too narrow the synchro is HISTORY. takes 1min with lid off, but that takes 4hrs, labor.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/sparkman/ar5/outer1.JPG
you can run engine oil in the tranny and the bearing will be happy, (In fact some cars do, some even run ATF (custom fiber sychros, not ours)
but not the sychr's. they may, not, or if worn? GL4 oil is just for that, to run Synchro;'s it NOPT /MT API grade (crash box), its GL4 gear lube four.
Gear lube 5 is for HYPOID gear sets. and is not for synchro's at all, unless they say so, and Mobile 1 said, its NOT. i have that link in my gl4 page. to Mobile FAQ page on syn gear oil lube.
and you can bet that they'd lOVE TO SAY YES< but said no. this fact alone tells you that GL5 is not 4.
keep in mind that GL5 is 100% designed EP (rated) to not burn up those very very hugely loaded hypoid gear sets, its HUGE FOCUS point that and NOT your gear box.
see how that hipoid gear is shaped and sets real low, ?
this gear is for low noise, and for high torque. and has very very special needs, unlike any gear box made. period.
the only issue in my mind is, those bottles marked, GL 3/4./5 , are they really? my guess is yes, but I too, must have trust in something.
i think the best post ever on topic is Molakule
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1231225
the only problem is oTC sales and clerks. they are clueless.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/M-Trans-Fluid-1-Qt-Manual/_/R-PZR3501_0017781156
Product Description
Buy it by the case and save. Search PEN-3501-C for case pricing. PENNZOIL SYNCHROMESH FLUID is a synchromesh transmission fluid designed for certain manual transaxles and manual transmissions used by General Motors or Chrysler. PENNZOIL SYNCHROMESH FLUID is formulated with high quality paraffinic base stocks a fluidity modifier multifunctional performance additives corrosion inhibitors a foam suppressor and a shear stable viscosity index improver additive. It provides excellent oxidation stability low temperature performance excellent synchronizer performance and compatibility with yellow metals such as bronze brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions. This product will satisfactorily lubricate General Motors or Chrysler manual transaxles and transmissions from -40C to +150C. BENEFITS - Exhibits excellent low temperature performance - Meets GM Specification 9985648 - Suitable for use in GM manual transaxles and transmissions requiring GM Part No. 12345349 or 12345577 - Meets Chrysler specification MS-9224 - Suitable for use in Chrylser transaxles and transmissions requiring Part No. 4874464 - Excellent synchronizer performance - Excellent yellow metal compatibility
this is NOT Pennsiol GEAR PLUS>
AT GM shops (GEO ) they use, GM12346190-1 lube. (and is stated exactly in the FSM and operators guide) up to 1998,
chrysler (PN 4637579) and gm (PN 12346191) IS just re-bottled syntorque (research buy bob the oil guys people)
in 2006 you could by this lube
but not now. only at GM or Chrysler, at $20 or more per quart.
but is spec. lube.
the second line it the book shows, SAE-GL4- 75w-90 lube as alternate. suzuki STATES ,just API-GL4 and 3 grades
i hope this helps.
RE: Fixing the Shifting Issues - Vitalie - 08-20-2014
I will try the penzoil sycromesh next time.
I also noticed today that the second is still a bit stiff, harder to engage. It kinda takes 2 steps to engage, and I can hear a loud shifting resonating from beneath. No grinds though. I have changed those 2 plastic bushings earlier. 19 an 27.
Also when backing up or start moving I still feel that bang when engaging the clutch (releasing the pedal), it is not that noticeable while driving as it picks the gears much smother with the new clutch. but I was wondering what could it b?. Some research on internet says the mounts are bad but I am not that sure. the engine feels pretty sturdy. I checked the drive propeller shaft and it has about a quarter rotating play. the u-joints are all good, no play at all. Is it the rear differential? checked the oil is clean and full.
Forgot to mention that I also checked the input shaft for play when out and it has very little play. I would say 1mm maybe.
Thanks