+- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki)
+--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker)
+--- Thread: EGR stall test question (/thread-egr-stall-test-question)
RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-16-2014
yes, all tests sound and look perfect.
the hole is 11 mm hole direct to #4 exhaust port, and should pulse violently, strong. forceful..
bank, wacka,wacka,wacka, bang. is the beat.
the stock car, with cat has about 1 psi pulse, at 2500 rpm, (max spec is 2psi or cat is melted)
but there is a plus and is strong. the diaphram is very flexable silicon rubber and a very weak spring.
the V valve flutters. this fluttering modulates the EGR main.
in 1999 this ended, no more vacuum magic, and is very complex on this car. very.
3 systems have to work .in concert.
RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-16-2014
But did you hear the Bark? Because I could never tell? I mean, test was done properly but that loud bank, wacka violently thingy i did not notice?
I'm eager to get my hands on her. Thank you very much!!
RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-16-2014
yes, i can hear it, its hard to hear over the normal noises but i hear it.
ok, the port is 100% open on to the #4 exhaust port. with the EGR off, you can feel it blasting there every 4th cylinder firing.
it's strong, and i can hear the bark the exhaust note is load. even through a 11mm hole.
where a glove to feel it burn free, or feel it dead cold start.
this sound is classic on all cars what an exhaust header tube leak, that sound , is clear and distinct.
a blast , a bark, totally abnormal.
but this test is only to see if its load and strong. as you know the head tunnel can neck down to 5mm hole and be weak or weaker.
all this is subjective. btw, my 97 all pathes end to end were solid carbon, there was no barking end the end.
only fate rules this.
RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-16-2014
Got it. I'll do my best to rule everything out with tests
On to another fun filled weekend of testing and wrenching!!
Will let you know my findings.
Have a great weekend!!
Cheers!!
RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-16-2014
I lied to you, sorry, i re- read my own page, blush.
and 1994 is the cut in date. for rear wheels must spin to do a LIVE EGR test. but i have a test for that. using any DMM or voltmeter.
also on EGR, see my page here in EGR, and the 1994 rule.below 1st link.
USA rule, USA ECU, i do not have the cut in date on the rule, what body VIN serial number cut in date or serial, only 1994 it began.
i forgot this rule and my page shows my research on that.
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html#STALL
silly rules, how makes this up, and why must use 3 men to do this.
1: at throttle
2: one looking at EGR main
3: one spinning left rear (only) tire. off ground. (let me be more clear the rear drive shaft just spin, even by hand) car in neutral or park.
dang.
a test: not safe.
one could jack up rear, 100% on stands and put the tranny in gear forward , 1st , is safest.
and but the guy 2 is in danger, make sure the front wheels are chocked GOOD, wheel chocks,!!!
this MPH >0 rule is a royal pain in the backside,,,,, no lie.
and why? can can not Fathom it?
one reason? , make Suzuki rich selling good egr parts.?
also on egr, see my page here in EGR, and the 1994 rule.
USA rule, USA ECU, i do not have the cut in date on the rule, what body VIN serial number cut in date or serial, only 1994 it began.
i forgot this rule and my page shows my research on that.
below 158F is a serious matter, no EFI car will run right below 180F, and 150f range the ECU drops to cold start warm up mode, all tuning is done hot, not cold or warm.
spark timing, EGR testing, and IDLE controls only work right hot. (the dash GAUGE IS NOT AN instrument its a TOY really) (EG; when in H zone engine is too hot, end of story)
http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-thermometer-93984.html#.UxSEdoUTnuE
one of the most useful tools made, can find clogged rad tubes. even a single tube. easy. and no more burned hands , finds dead cylinders and many other things.
I lied about the LIVE test, it started sometime in 1994.
also on egr, see my page here in EGR, and the 1994 rule.
USA rule, USA ECU, i think my VIN numbers work but only if the engine was not swapped or the intake swapped. see below VIN.
i forgot this rule in my older posts. sorry., and my page shows my research on that.
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html#STALL
your 1994 is on the cusp, of live test A or B methods. sorry i can not tell, with no photos of engine.
here is my 1994 live test , check. for A or B type ECU.
and my gosh 2, Calif, or FED ECU? no idea.
but here goes.
the acid test. on this one silly rule.
LIVE TESTING, 1994's
key on, see 0v, at A15 below, means the ECU just closed the EGR VSV (0v is vsv closed, 12v is open valve) the valve is open , unplugged too..
0v = closed VSV and is ENERGIZED, the coil active, with 0v on this pin.
1: engine hot, i use a IR pyro gun, no burned hands. etc..... it must be hot or the ECU skips, EGR usage. its a fact. listed in the FSM.
engine in neutral or park, at all times. please. hand brake off, on later 1994+s. hand brake on, early 1994's and more early. very risky testing for sure..... be careful.
2: i race the rpm fast say 1200 rpm hot. really hot.
3: i have a voltmeter on the EGR VSV pin, here. A15 light green with white stripe wire at VSV. meter neg lead to body ground metal, engine is best)
4: i get 12vdc at a15. means the ECU is running EGR (vsv is open sucking air at mod) at 0 miles per hour. rear wheels on ground.
4a: i get 0v, means, at 1200 rpm parked, the car needs, faster than 0 MPH , or rear tires spinning, (best is keep on rear tire on ground and hand spin the tire , in park, or neutral.)
this these above fill read 0v all the time if the coil in the VSV is dead open (infinity ohms) so check that first.
see pin A15 on the 16v OBD1 schematic, this is the EGR enable pin. key on it goes to 0v (closes the valve) the valve runs backwards from thinking.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/92-95MPI-eng-schematic_files/92-95mpi-eng-full-size-huge.png
there are 3 paths that can fail
exhaust.
vacuum (and cat back pressure gone, )
electrical (ECU and that VSV EGR)
answers
yes that video is ok, but mine drops lower. to 400 rpm. ( a real tachometer in hand)
if it don't go to like 400 rpm and shake the EGR flow is too low.
many pro's say the stall test is not definitive, this is 1/2 true, sure,. if it shakes, its good. or stalls better.
the full flow of exhaust in the EGR ports does that.
the 1994 has the Quad port egr. in the intake man.,
so if 3 of the 4 ports are clogged. i cant tell you what its going to sound like. or shake.
the quad port IS hard to diagnose. but not if those 4 intake egr injectors are clean. then all the other tests, solve all other failures.
i think your STALL test fails. sorry.
if the ISC can correct the RPM loss, the EGR flow is weak , IMO.
this is the quad port system (was day 1), it's is very hard to clean.
you don't have a 1995.5 engine. or its new manifold.
so .
does not have a mono port side wider tube.
right?
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/97-clog-city/html/index.html
this page is my slide show for sidewinder verses quad port EGR sytems. some engine swappers get this all wrong
the side wider is single stainless steel tube. SST on the left side of the engine, introduced in 1995.5.
see this tube to the right here. you dont have that , correct.?
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/97-clog-city/images/Egr-ports%20%285%29.jpg
![[Image: Egr-ports%20%285%29.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/97-clog-city/images/Egr-ports%20%285%29.jpg)
what is your body VIN last digits.
Rnnnnnxxx (put 3 x's at end to keep private)
all i know is this. on topic
VIN suffix codes, S = 1995 year. T - 1996,
S4102048~
S6400125~
some cars have the wrong intakes installed, i cant see car, or engine so can not know whats really there.
RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-17-2014
Okie. Wife out right now on kick. As soon as she gets here I'll take pics of everything and send them to you. i'm about to start doing all this tests, plus the first tranny at home fluid change.
Regards!!
When I assembled the intake manifold the first time when I was about to install it is when I noticed the pesky EGR passages to the 4 runners. I did my best in cleannig them since it was already late night and car had to be ready for work next day. So my big suspission is that they are somewhat still clogged. I dont mind disassembling it again.
2S3TE02V9R6407xxx does that makes sense? Here the pics:
RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-17-2014
nice data. clear body is a real 94. R code.
that is a 94 engine. no sidewinder. and the 4 EGR injectors in the manifold can be a pistol to clean,
is the smog man complaining?
sticker shows a FEDERAL only 94,
is your CAT still present on car? its in front of muffer, flat type stock.
those injectors are only accessable ( baring welch plug removals and finding replacements not easy) from the head side, im sure you saw that.
but id ream them with a gun brush, im not too sure size but start at .22cal, and work up?
or if you can find the true diameter, then drill them out with a drill bit,
my head tunnel was packed and 11mm drill fit mine, and i just drilled buzzard out.
do you have 2 wires going to (1 cable with 2 pins) to the EGR main? on back of intake tunnel 4?
ok your going GOOD !!!
![[Image: 93-16v-egrports002.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95/93-16v-egrports002.jpg)
![[Image: 93-16v-egrports001.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95/93-16v-egrports001.jpg)
THE QUAD EGR setup'
no love here
as can see its like have 4 EGR systems , a royal pain that is.
once clean the stall test will be radical slow RPM engine shaking hard. near 400 rpm.
your ECU is a dash, 58B00 ecu.
they changed p;n each year. same exact car.
92/93/94/95.
im not sure if the live EGR test can be done not moving, tires on ground. no sure at all.
ive never had a real 94 FSM.
RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-17-2014
Yes CAT still in car. I actually it passed smog test way before any tune up. That is why the damn code 51 pisses me, it was not present before, so WTF? I dont mind disasembling whole thing and making sure everything, EVERYTHING is darn free of carbon. Yes my EGR main has the 2 wire thermoprobe. The only thing, can I resuse the gaskets for intake manifold again? They are not even 1 month old? And does my TB has an EGR passage?
Thanks!!
RE: EGR stall test question - fixkick - 08-17-2014
a good cat can hide a weak EGR function (three way cat does that)
but when the egr fails , this may cause the cat to overload.
make sure the 2 wire probe is clean inside its hole there in the dirty port.
i think the gasket is ok, it will tell you, as it comes off. looks ok, is.
no TB passages. no sidewinder; no mono port injection point.
all injection points x4 are in the manifold exit ports.
id check that thermoprobe first. see if its business end id clean, so it can Feel the exhuast heat directly
if its impacted clean it and see if 51s stop.
RE: EGR stall test question - zukitrek - 08-17-2014
Well the ohm test made the EGRT fail badly, remember 179ohms cold 46 ohms hot? I try removing very very careeeefully. Then retest the ohms and hopefully 51 gone as well.
If I go on removing IM the only difference between new and used intake gaskets is the raised lip the new ones have. Once put, it flattens it? Would using it like that will not matter?
I'm ready to go!!
Fixkick,
With car fully warmed up i tested the probe ohms by pressing the diaphragm and it started going down slowly from 69 (Temp at the beginning of test after driving it) to 45 but had to let go (to hot for my covered hand). Then just to make sure, I tested the vaccum suction at the hose connected to the P nipple and there was no suction or very very weak either idle or revved up? I will test the VSV but any ideas? Right now EGR main is coming off.
Keep you posted.