+- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki)
+--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker)
+--- Thread: Idle slows and stops after revving (/thread-idle-slows-and-stops-after-revving)
RE: Idle slows and stops after revving - fixkick - 11-15-2016
hope that helps
EFI is complex. the EFI systems on all cars can be very hard to diagnose, the older the car the more harder, and this car the most hard of all. (both maker and year)
This is because suzuki';s scan tools are NOT OFF THE SHELF. finding one is a life time saga or a trip to Europe where one does exist.
the EGR needs only be closed now, and stay closed, to start and run good. the EGR will open as you gun the throttle but I bet its dead, but dead is fine now , it only needs to be closed
the EGR is a smog device, 99%, when it sticks open, the engine stalls, or idles at 400rpm and shakes hard, see my EGR page and video of it doing just that.
the EGR can be cleaned, or replaced, those that to not respond to cleaning (some are horridly long long dead and packed, as seen on my examples on my EGR page)
case in point from http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen1.html
packed up. some see this and cry a $100 part, or clean it, 1/2 work after, about 1/2 if its 27 years, old, I have no hope, but I never give up, i clean it.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/egr-clogged.JPG
MAP sensor is on the fire wall, and has a hose. small.
the hose can fail, never seen an 89 with good hoses, they all here, in usa turn to like gum balls. nasty sticky, or are cracked.
the hose is just a vacuum hose. and can clog, crack, break or fall off. it has 2 nipples one on the map and one on the intake man seen here. fitting #19
off my parts finder page and TB and manifold slide show here,
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Slide_Show/HTML/image_45.html
7 parts there to clog or crack. just for map. (cars are complex, no?)
Good timing about 10 Deg BTDC. that is good, means the cam belt is not slipped yet, ever replace it , in last 100kmiles> they dont last the life of any engine, so ...
I agree, leave it be. for now,, the test was only to see if the cam belt slipped,.
my answers on the belt can go 2 ways, belt slipped. or the crank bolt never set to the new 1996 (retroactive all G16) 94 foot/pound. crank pulley huge bolt.
that means then timing can change at any moment, with that horrid condition, now, 1 minute later or 1 day.
seen so many like that its crying towel time.
here is the suzuki warning, ignored it seems in all shops.
here:
http://www.fixkick.com/All-Pdfs/TSB/89-96crank-bolt.pdf
keep in mind I cant hear the engine or drive the car, if could, answers can (will) be 100% different.
the ECU (EFI brain) is multi-model) it will fail to go to hot mode if the thermostat is stuck open do you know they sell (horrid IMO) fail safe thermostats that do that.?
I use an IR gun to tell if the coolant reaches normal temp , a $20 tool' (vast uses, even find clogged rad tubes in the core in minutes)
see me use it on a 8v here.
http://www.fixkick.com/Cooling-engine/stat-housing2.jpg
not its reads about 10degree less that the water here, due to thermal physics reasons, must get engine fully hot to do that. 100% fully normal hot.
idle for 10 will not. work. here.
1/2 hour yes,. (not in Alaska)
OK a 2 door, my favorite Sidekick. a dream to drive in snow.
tell him EFI is just and electronic carb,
instead of magic jets clogged in a carb, and no parts to buy for it. good luck on carbs, in year 2016 , in usa they are all gone and parts hard to get or zero parts. sold.
the EFI can be tested, and diagnosed easy. using a meter. and all parts are sold, 100% better this.... it can be fixed, !!!
the ECT is like a choke, on carb, if the ECT reads 140f the ECU goes to choke mode. if it ECT read, 0 degrees F, the electronic ECU , goes super rich.
so if the engine is never hot, it floods . or if ECT reads 1000 ohms hot, it folds.
the only hard part is this. (no scan tools work here, not the ones we can buy today that works on all cars, this is a big problem) on ALL old suzukis. only.
1: lost spark, you didnt check for spark when it stalled. this is be error here. this is first, if the Head lights work and CEL glows key on, but will not start
you check spark on all engine, regardless of its EFI or a carb. this is a hard rule.
the ECU on this car does not do spark,so there is nothing this ECU can to cure it... if bad. its all in the distributor ,, just like all carb engine are... and were for 90 years.
on this car the fuel pump does not run, key on (useless in alaska) it does not. (not till 1991, in USA)
so testing fuel pump takes ,knowing this one fact.
you must crank a dead engine, if you want fuel pressure on this car.
so to test the fuel pump voltage you must crank it.
those 2 wires in the rear of car love to fail, LOVE ! 27 years of corrosion is not a happy time there.
here it is on mine.
G402, prime failure 1.
http://www.fixkick.com/Cooling-engine/stat-housing2.jpg
connector.
prime failure 2., see that large pink wire, that be pump, and the connector pins green color (rust) is horror 2.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/Tl2w.jpg
lets say car stalls, sparks ok.
so why not use test fuel, (spray can fuel sold in ever car store in uSa, even walfart)
start now? if yes, and stalls and you can repeat that.
you now know , its FUELING issues, and with that knowledge we can go to finding that reason.easy.
if fueling is lost. totally, (you do know the cute car TBI , the TB throttle body air horn off, if you look there, and see a dead injector , by golly , that be lost injection
the what.? well now we measure fuel pressure,
omg its 60PSI at the filter test port, but wait that is the input to the filter, omg, the filters packed solid.
my pump page shows all ways to mess up a pump. there are not just 1 way, be assured.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/dead-pump.html
see the collapsed tank, so does car run perfect with gas, cap removed? LOL , lots of ways for any car to fail.
IF spark is good and car runs on test fuel (all this is 15min work)
we do this, the tool is $20.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/TBI-conn-1w.jpg
the basics work on CARB sand EFI.
they are
bad engine, you cant burn fuel effectively if its bad, dead or super weak or vacuum bounces. (efi hates that bounce)
bad spark, cant burn fuel with out spark, (unless its a Diesel)
bad fueling, too much or too little or none at all.
1,2,3, works on all gas cars made regardless of carb or EFI
watch scotty see him do this is a short video, works in 1900 year, and 2016
same tests.
be very careful cracking open fuel lines, they can be under 60psi pressure, my page and the factory book tells you HOW To depressurize first.
say changing out the filter...
but in his test, do not let the spray in your eyes, benzine is very nasty stuff, cancer causing (known) where goggles is savvy.
in his video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064Ilsz8Fzg&NR=1&feature=fvwp
the reason i pull spark plugs on a stalled engine, is to see if they are soaked in fuel.
if yes, the TEST fuel can start a flooded engine, so I look at spark tips. on this car its childs play with plugs in plain sight , unlike newer cars.
test fuel is more hotter than gas, so starts a flooded engine.
fooling the person doing the work
so I look first. ahhhhhhh dry plugs and test fuel works, ahhhhh lost fueling
air horn off, ahhhhh injector is dead now.....
and flash codes are now, dead engine, 41. or 42, ahhhhh, ecu thinks spark bad and is not, (say) keep in mind if the tachmeter shorts, the ECU cuts fuel
even if sparks 100% dead, the ECU monitors TACHOMETER LINE, so if the tacho or cruise box shorts ,bam no fueling , until corrected.
if you had a 1996 car , all this works like all (most) modern gas cars.
but is not. yours is 1989 and the ECU does NOT DO SPARK. it only watches it on the side lines. and if it seems dead, this spark the ECU cuts fuel (by law)
this page is just for you and only your year.
cheers.
ps: the pump pressure must be at spec, cranking and running.
this is the only way to check it.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/TBI-conn-1w.jpg