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+--- Thread: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair (/thread-1990-geo-tracker-4x4-manual-ecu-60a31-repair)
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-07-2016
(11-07-2016, 07:48 AM)Jake 1 Wrote: Hi there..I'd like to add to this thread..I've got 2 1990 tracker tin top 4x4 5 spds...
They're twins except for chevy vs gmc badges...zukes all.
that is correct, in N. America, only, and but not smog, , for example the canada one may not have EGR monitors, but has EGR.
and 89s had carbs offered in N.America. and in all other non usa countries, had carbs many many years latter, in fact have 4 class engine types. world wide.
what country you are in matters. if you say GEO, that lands you in N.America, (90%) if you say same with sidekick but not Vitara....
My daily driver started randomly quitting at speed-cut right out- (the 1990 usa car , the distributor makes spark all by its self , so..... sparks first and only there , plugs/wire/distrib cap..rotor,cap.ignitor,VR pickup and coil and internal advancing weights, )
elaborate the cut out.... this matters, and can you end the cut out with your right foot, less, more foot pumping or?
so I'd pull over wait,restart and carry on ...till it happened again.
This makes things difficult to diagnose. Sure it is if spark is intermittent, ever set the VR Gap?
Finally she quit and wouldn't restart.Towed home.Now I can diagnose...good spark,means good coil and pickups. Now fuel..Pull return line and air horn from TB and crank over while looking at injector..no fuel from injector but tons thru return eliminates fuel pump,filter and lines to TB so injector or ecu.
Rarely see injector fails except for o-rings so I go with ecu as cause..change it out with known good unit from my twin and voila!!
but the screens on same clogged, 10 micron.
So I just loved this post about cap change outs with pics.....
most of these ECu all fail, every one , once, do to those junky, Rubicon black caps.
I would like to know how "the shop" hot wired said injector with a toggle? (this is why the injectors drives burn up, changed many out my self)
hotwiring any ECU is evil , stop them and win.... my page on ECU warns of hotwiring ecu ,like 10 times...
How is this done without burning it up? Could be a useful trick for those of us that find ourselves in the back of beyond sometimes.
Do you have have the 90, ecu schematic? I have 91 up.
but not 90... the 91 up blows up hot wired.
the samurai had an external injector resistor block, that can fail. ours dont have that. on any year.
here is ours.....
my work.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/injector-drivers.jpg
now you draw yours. and we can talk facts.
this is what 91+ does. hot wired.
if you hot wire the red wire, you burn up the injector coil and maybe Q102, if the injector burns and shorts, Q102 is burned to a crisp,
if you hot wire the yellow wire, q102 blows up and or R225.
in all cases if the injector services this event (hotwiring) the injector pulse widths will be wrong, controlled injection ends. because the 2 transistors have different pulse widths and the combined sets correct injection rates
on some (rumors only , early ecu) the Q101 is just a resistor, and Q102 does all pulsing, just like all MPI do.....sans resistors
in this case, only, (rumors suck) but one could hot wire the resistor, but if you did , and the rumor was true, then the lower transistor and injector overheats
how can this help anyone, for sure a $400+rebuilt ECU is no fun event.
the injectors is 1 ohm, at 12v that is Power = V squared divided by R. (ohms laws) 12 x12 /1 or 144/1 or 144w... the math.
12amps flows, huge current hot-wiring this. I = E/R , 12/1 is 12.
144 watts flows, touch your finger to a 100w light bulb , imagine that burning heat in side the injector or that transistor.
hopeless,
just because 12vdc seems safe its not, not for hotwiring parts. with no real knowledge of what's there.
it is a fact all of these ecu's use a cooling PWM pulse to keep that 1 ohm injector cool.
this is documented, I have the wave forms for it.
the there are 2 signals there, the cooling part, and the injection rate parts.
if you mess with either , the fueling will fail. hard.
hot wired damages if repaired many times on many ECU.
Injector driver 1
injector driver 2
+5vdc supply blows up the PCB trace to h3LL,
fuel pump relay driver blown to up
all VSV drivers blown up.
how ever the RED injector wires harness wire, if it lands (by any means) on ground, Q101 burns up. seen many. all are easy fix, if you have my fix it page.
but ive never had a 60a ECU in my shop. to fix. lots of 56B (91+)
send me one, and will do the schematic and may fix it for free.
here is my 56b page showing all DRIVERS, drivers and CAP are what most ECU fail for,... most.
see this.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/transistors.html
that shows all 56b main failures parts. on one page
i dont have a page on 60a, (car is rare in most States) see real p/n of parts and true makers name....
the 89/90 has no spark generation in the ECU at all, its a FUEL only ECU.
the 89/90s are not the same world wide, not a all, vast differences.
the 89/90s do monitor only spark, and if it sees spark die, it cuts fuel ,as do all ECU on all cars made by law. crash and burn rules.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html
nut shell.
ecu tests (on my test jig on the bench)
1: if there is (measure it) 5vdc on that 5v pin, if not fix that first.
2: check all drivers on ECU. oops. hotwiring H3LL i bet...
3: new caps first, if they are black caps, and original they are junk, if some one used fleabay caps from china. most are junk, use Nichicon from japan. those dont fail. with the high temp option, shown on my page,
do no us NO NAME caps, or any you can not pronounce. like (som-ting-wong)? and the like, they are junk with cloned electrolytes inside,
Nichicon is a world leader, there are others, ask.
Keep in mind, at all times many of the parts inside all these ECU's , the parts are not made now. "discontinued"
so we find NOS parts, (some are not found at all)
or we cannibalize another ECU, making 1 of 2.
same with speedo clusters, in spades..
yes, we dont change out ECU untill last. due to 2 reasons.
1: most ecu dont fail. if got new caps and no hotwiring bs. they dont fail.
2: the rebuilt is $400
3: the other parts need to be checked first. ECU inputs, and spark, and fuel pressure , all are first .
4: and last but really a #! fact, if you put a new ECU in a car with shorted outputs, BAM, 2 bad ECUs. so.,... that cant be fun...
wish i knew if car was bogging cut out , (foot pedal right, was dead,)
or its was violent misfire, engine shakes, you can hear it, feel it .???
this is key to finding cause, as CUTs out , is not enough information to diagnose any engine ; the technician needs to drive it.
if it misfires parked, we do that first. easy fix. that.
or bogs park as I roll the TV.
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-07-2016
refr pages
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html
the 60a ecu, some are gold colored, (gold steel alodized)
plenty to see in the slide show.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/hell/html/image_16.html
60a distributors are unique.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/89-timing.html
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - ZoomZuki - 11-07-2016
(11-07-2016, 07:48 AM)Jake 1 Wrote: I would like to know how "the shop" hot wired said injector with a toggle? How is this done without burning it up? Could be a useful trick for those of us that find ourselves in the back of beyond sometimes.
FYI, I'm told that hot wiring the Injector can burn it up. Although, the guy I bought mine from had been running it that way for years...
Anyway, what he did was run 12v directly from the battery to the injector. Again, not recommended.
My injector had a red and yellow wire. I believe he ran 12V to the Yellow wire.
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-07-2016
the nasty rubicons leak acid (boric)
then soaks in to the PCB.
then it catches fire.
get the rubicons out and win.
![[Image: 60A-BOTTOM-doa.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/hell/images/60A-BOTTOM-doa.jpg)
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-07-2016
yes, if the , plus driver is dead.
and the yellow driver is good.
the ecu sends crude inaccurate pluses to the hot wired injector and it does fire and run
but runs like crap.
i could make a ECU from scratch with simple parts, that run better.
called aN alpha injection system , like some race cars use.
it uses RPM and TPS as inputs and runs rich. 12;1 AFR is max power . so...
it computes air flows, of just 2 sensors
just because something runs, is not magic, or amazing, what matters is runs right.
on your car, the ECU makes no spark
so we can slap a harley CV carb on it and make it run great.
or any carb for that matter, run.
spark,in the Dizzy good.
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-07-2016
the golden rules in electronics
never hot wire parts, if you must, learn what there first. with a real schematic.
rule 2
never hot swap electronics.
rule 3 do not connect car battery backwards, or jumper cable it backwards, some ELECTRONICS WILL SMOKE, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
if stranded in the Rubicon, what you do , stays in the Rubicon, only "SMokey Bear" knows...
see me do this, not one part is hot wired, all are correct loads and sensors, and will run like this for months, with my virtual bench engine.
56Bxx ECU setup.
![[Image: 56B-bench-ecu-livew.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/hell/images/56B-bench-ecu-livew.jpg)
the hardest question on mans great earth. is.?
"How can I do X wrong?"
1: no answers,.
2: be more specific, you did not. (schematics missing....and the bom, bill of materials.. missing, parts matter, as do mountings (thermals))
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-07-2016
i can weld with the car battery
why weld an ECU?
that is what hot wiring does. 1/2 the time.
the inputs are protected. but not one output. sorry, not.
Also walking across the street blind folded can work.
but what is the point?
50% chance of death ok?, I saw mikey do it 2 time.... so it's good. ? DO NOT hotwire output pins, its a rule.
ask yourself, if you overload a transistor by only 100% how long will it last? (nobody knows, nor cares, its wrong, is the answer)
what matters is the Tj spec. Heat.
or over voltage.
ever price out ECUs or new injectors, seems not?
even finding them is hard. in a weeks time.
IT will get worse as less and less viable ECU are found,
many can not be repaired, due to burnups and parts not sold now. anywhere on earth.
that is the end song on suzuki, they dont sell them now either.
how ever i can sub some parts.
and why learn bad habits
then buy a new car and hot wire it and burn up a $3000 PCm
Watching hackers is fun, no lie, what is to learn from them?
An engineer does all he can to avoid this, and to protect the electronics from SAD events.
on some modern cars the drivers, have 2 new features, not seen on any SUZUKI
over heated drivers.
or overloaded,
then shuts them down before they burn up.
The best practice on all electronics, is not to overload, it. (for fun or ? but if truly in danger ? do what you must, ????)
and never ask if overloading it is ok.
even better, draw your own schematic, and see what's ok,, only that matters in the real world of electronics (physics)
or better post it, not one has,,,,, ever here.
just me....
all others use rumor or consensus bs.
the injector paths, on PCB are easy to trace, I invite you do to that. see if the 2 drivers are same on 56b ECU.
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - fixkick - 11-08-2016
I also fix the , hotwiring of the injector relay.
they slip, 1/8th of an inch.. 3mm
and boom, end ECU fuel pump drive.
really it makes guys like me rich, and I should not tell this tale. but, im retired, and can fess up.
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - Jake 1 - 11-08-2016
Wow! Great responses to my add on post! So...the "cut out" was complete so to say ..dead..right foot does/did nothing. I tried..sometimes she'd fire quickly other times a couple of minutes..then finally the no start which allowed me to move forward.....I'd like to say that I am in British Columbia so canadian stuff here. Both of my ecu's are virgins...I checked. their decals both say 60A91 CAN-MT + a couple of other #'s. Black labels both.( I note red on zoomzuki's) I'm no electronics guru like you guys at all...only common sense ,38 yrs of fixing experience and many many helping hands . Super hoby...super interesting!! My rig..all good...wires plugs compression vr gapped vaccuum.. on and on ..all good.and so we move forward.I would gladly send my "bad" 60A91 to you for a look..I don't have enough knowledge to do the schemo. But...I do still have the curiosity and drive to learn!! Perhaps some others could benefit which makes it worth while.The caps in the failed ecu hardly look bad ..not like the ones in your link which makes me think heat soak at cap base=injector fail=temporary cut out=restart until cap leak causes corrosion and ultimately the no start condition leading to an easier diagnosis!...Just guessing...let me know where to send it!! cheers Jake.
RE: 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4 Manual ECU 60A31 Repair - Jake 1 - 11-08-2016
OhYa! The whole hot wire thing....I doubt 12v of any kind thru either injector lead would work for too long...You know ..the 100w light bulb thing comes into play. My safety in the outback at this point is a handy wrapped ecu!! LOL.