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+--- Thread: ECU (/thread-ecu)
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RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-08-2015
that one on craigs will sell fast , it's obd2(means all scan tools work) car, with very low miles.
first locate the DLC, on yours it be a 6pin next to battery, on that 97 its moved to right front head light shell rear.
#1 is always front of engine, near crank pulley. firing order is 1,3,4,2. do not mix wires up.
yes, 4 to 5 the page is fsm page, (real) and works.
has 6 pins, has a rubber cap. covering pins to keep out dirt.
an unbent paper click, fits perfectly
the hood sticker shows what your static timing is supposed to be. the EPA sticker is right there.
![[Image: 96DLC1w.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/96DLC1w.jpg)
id proceed as if the state did do the timing correctly, (but many states do ,do it wrong)
I dont have their lists of tests?
here it would be if done right.
Engine at 180F.+ and holding ? (if not it will be rich, and will be wrong RPM) not 150F.
if wrong RPM then the timing will be wrong. (it varies by RPM, so......)
It's not in failsafe mod as timing is retarding in that mode.
when buying any car,
the CEL lamp glows key on, 1989 to now. "check engine lamp"
then goes out running, if not?, get a big discount.... Grin.!
Suzuki used this DLC up to 2004. (then moved the feature to scan tool screen , selections)
in 2005 Suzuki , started using precision CMP (cam)sensors to make timing no longer human adjustable.
new ZUKs? pre buy. testing:
CEL out running?
drives ok.? and in 4wd in dirt.? shifts to all gears, hot and cold engine (if A/T do both temps)
no smoke.
no engine shaking , no misfiring, no loss of power up hills.
brakes work perfectly.
on 96+ cars, you can fail smog for A/T transmission failures, (OD lamp flashes or stuck on, CEL on) The 0D on tells you A/T bad. on 3speed, they can fail you for TCC lockup in A/T dead.
in calif they can fail you for missing or wrong parts on engine (calif visual inspections are Tough) (say if some kid put on CAI intake mods !)
in calif they have this law that the seller must show car passes smog before a buy can buy it. did you know that, its a very unique law there.
In fact they will refuse to transfer title i think. (did they repeal that law?)
that same law , i think, (it was true) they seller can be charged the cost of smog repairs. if he attempt so sell it. with out smog passing.
line 13 here.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq
see
, who is responsible for the inspection?
if you buy a car , with no smog paper good. (90 day rule) the car is not a car, it's scrap.
the rule here is.
"If you do sell it without a smog certification and it doesn't pass, the seller is responsible for repairing it to the smog certification standards. "
you can take them to small claims court and demand this....
i guess in calif, that is the first question from buyer, got the passing smog chit?
RE: ECU - Captain - 04-09-2015
Hold everything!--disregard those last questions. It turns out that although this car is a '93 16 Valve (it's right there on the engine and also on the tailgate) it seems to have a 4-pin DLC rather than a 6-pin DLC (see attached pics).
So, for the 4-pin, the jump for Diagnosis is B-D, and for timing it is C-D. Correct?
And the #1 spark plug is the one closest to the front?
Thanks.
(04-08-2015, 03:50 PM)Captain Wrote: I hear ya. Bottom line is I don't buy it unless he can pass smog. If he won't spend to do it, then he junks the car or whatever and I move on. BTW, just saw a 97 Sidekick on craigslist with 67k original miles (allegedly) Basic 4dr model with no AC or any extras for just under $2,600 (the blue book).
OK, to review--for Diagnostic on the DLC, connect the #4 to the #2
Then for the timing, connect #4 with #5. Correct?
And the number one spark plug is the one closest to the front of the car?
Now you've got me thinking about that '97. I'm going to check it out this weekend if it's still there. You mentioned the DLC location on the 97--is that something I might want to check before buying?
If you don't mind, what kind of gas mileage does that car really get?
RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-09-2015
nah, the 97 the DCL has no flash code pins, but still has freeze time pins and duty cycle (idle) set pins. they moved it too the left front strut.
yes, on some 16v they have the 4pin plug, its odd that. but that happens and is all ok.
that is correct C to d jump. the key wire color is. blue-red wire. bingo. for freeze wire.
your engine looks like all things present, very good that.
the 97 with M/t is the best cars, 96-98, all scan tools work. ;no more guessing whats wrong, well, most times.
mpg of 28 is possible, cruising.
24 is my worst. i town. but that is country town, not big city. 2door, 5speed, city mpg less for a/t , tad less.
on the 97 , the CEL will go active for more things, including, misfire, bad or lazy CAT. gross air fuel ratios. I like it that way so im not woundering ....
just make sure the CEL goes out, after start. and stays out.
im pulling for you, to get the best deal, sure am.... !
RE: ECU - Captain - 04-09-2015
Check this out--here's the 97 on CL--It's only been listed 3 days and he already dropped the price $500 to $1995.
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4965204308.html
So I called. You may note he lists it as "FWD". That made me suspicious. Anyway, a guy answers the phone with a very thick accent--he says his friend bought the car at auction--he actually bought another car for himself, but got such a deal on this one he grabbed it as well to resell. He said the car owner is leaving to visit his country (?) for a month tomorrow, but the guy on the phone is authorized to sell it for him. Anyway, he has no idea why the mileage is so low. I asked how it runs and he says "good" but it is making a noise. He said another guy came to check it out today and said it might need a clutch.
Too good to be true? Sounds like it. Does look awfully clean though. Take a look.
RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-09-2015
never buy any car ,unless, the pink slip (calif, talk) is there and blank sig lines, and real owner signs in person.
i smell a fish here.
fwd - as in four wheel drive. sure.
demand a bill of sale, pink signing in person and all drivers license numbers. (yours and real owners)
i presume he has a pink slip with matching VIN? and the names match sellers, name.?
id check out noise carefully. it its the engine, the car is worth $500 (if anything at all)
id never buy a car from a non owner, unless at a dealer. (in dealers case, they are)
don't forget to get a http://www.carfax.com/on it, it might be stolen.
and this one
https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck
free.
Got pink slip in hand, ready? is first question before looking at car. and if in smog zone.? got the smog certificate? 80days or less fresher (giving you 10 to reg it)
calif tops list of stolen cars.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2013/06/26/cities-with-the-most-and-least-stolen-cars/
RE: ECU - Captain - 04-23-2015
Quick question. I went out and tried to adjust the timing on this 92 Sidekick and forgot to do the 'jump" first. But the timing did seem to change--that is, the timing marks moved when I rotated the distributer. Then I realized my mistake and did it again with the jump in place and the distributer and timing moved exactly as it had when I did it without the jump!
Does this indicate to you that the computer is bad since the timing did change without the jump in place?
RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-23-2015
sure it will , you will and so will the ecu, it never stops, unless set to frozen.
the timing is this , in math.
static time (your hand set ) + ECU timing tables = actual timing.
it is that simple, the ECU trust you did it correct or it gets it all wrong, by this equation.
im confused with bad computer (ecu) never.... not in this way.
the timing freeze is never active off 800 RPM , regardless of jump, imagine forgetting it left in, then burning up a $600 cat. ouch.
the EPA does not want you to make smog, with it left in.,either.
on the newer cars, the ECU sets DTC errors if jumpers are left in. your's will 96+_ mine did.
Freeze killers:? all very normal. The engine must be in the normal 800 rpm state and the ISC working, is obvious here.
hot engine
800rpm (850 max i guess)
jumper in place.
hand off throttle, that is illegal state purely.
the throttle idle switch must be closed. if not freeze mode ends.
all this on my timing page, under what does it mean with the freeze fails.
NOT Fails-safe mode active? (theory) backup mode (for sure) P/S over load or any ECU idle up pins (a/c) active (1000 rpm when this happens so... fails for 800)
keep in mind, that timing has tables, and varies by RPM , engine load calcs. not in freeze mode (calc advance is 0). it is very complex these tables,
i can gun mine and hit 41 degrees advanced easy.
under heavy loads, cylinder pressure are high, and advances is not needed as much. thus the complex tables.
Keep in mind this engine has no Knock sensors.
So the advance tables are 2x more complex to avoid knock, (retards under loads)
seen here.
if it dont freeze per steps we need to fix that. first.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/8v-procedure.html#No_freeze
the freeze is only to set static timing,and nothing else.
RE: ECU - Captain - 04-23-2015
Did I say 92 sidekick--I meant 93 of course. By the way, since the timing seemed to change with or without the "jump", I really can't be sure my jump even worked (that is, that the paper clip was making the electrical connection).
RE: ECU - Captain - 04-23-2015
Thanks for that explanation
RE: ECU - fixkick - 04-24-2015
best i can tell 2D photos, (not 3D, LOL)! is
that cable is wrong, it must be set slack per the FSM. 10mm 1/2 inch. or it will never work right.
the TV bore must not be full of carbon blocking the TV from 100 (99.9%) closure.
the TPS idle switch must read near 0v, not 5v. pin 2 on TPS. (second pin up from bottom) use engine ground for other meter black lead.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/92-95MPI-eng-schematic_files/92-95mpi-eng-full-size-huge.png
the TPS is calibrated using this pin2 switch. ( there are many many ways for the switch to fail) seen at below link.
for sure the idle racing is first. (or if closed loop fails running)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS-testing.html#freeze2
if the cable is set wrong , calibration of the TPS will fail , the TV most be 100% closed to calibrate it.
and the calibration off a bit causes 2 other problems (timed wrong)
early closer, and too late to open the switch. It cause hesitation in one case that causes the ISC servo to fight the drivers right foot, an ugly thing.
i'd calibrate it (tps)
cable set to spec, and TV 100% closed (examine it)
fiddle the bleed so the ISC wakes up and RPM hits, 800. and regulates. (test regulation with Head lights on, and blower at once is RPM held to 800? by ISC action)?
then set the freeze.
now the freeze works. (no DTCs live, ecu not in failsafe or backup mode (dead) as sometimes idle controls are canceled in these modes.)
the ecu controls RPM, not the bleed, the bleed wakes up the iSC, the bleed puts the ISC in the center of its range called duty cycle.
the 2 pin ISC are about 7vdc on the ISC when at 50% duty is hit (if meter works )