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+--- Thread: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch (/thread-turn-signals-out-after-smoke-in-combo-switch)
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-22-2014
Good day sir. I did not use the the test light, only the needle was used, don't know if the results are the same, but with needle back probing test, no volts reported key on to yellow/white or green. Black was always 0v. Hope this helps you and me.
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-23-2014
So what you mean is I should get the test light for better testing? Needle won't work? Lets say I pinch the green wire with needle and touch it key on will the DMM go from 0 to 12v if there is power to it? Or it does not work that way, only real light? There are 12v from turn fuse and hazard fuse all the way to combo switch but no power to relay in that yel/wht wire (pin 3) going into relay? Nor green? All of this done with the needle. Maybe I'm complicating matters?
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-23-2014
lets just do the turn/hazard relay now.
i just added the Suz colors for pin 3 see them. above, this wire changes color on pin3, from combo to relay. see that?
see that yel/green wire, that the color the Combo switch maker uses and can be any thing. (depends on maker of switch)
but at the relay, there will be yel/white or yell-blue there. and green, and black.
TEST 1:
the relay has 3 pins, I need the voltage on all 3 pins, of the relay, (not removed)
the best way to check this is with all 4 blinker lamps, in the car removed. (they do love to short, x10 for China crap bulbs)
the 4 blinkers in all 4 corners of car are Green wires. and the trailer wiring plug, in left rear trail light is not HACKED !!
This test 1 will prove the whole front of car is ok, all wiring up front. The Bench test and 1 to 8 prove the front end is ok. see?
if the front end passes all tests. then we attack the cars main blinker external harness.
1 Ignition key turned ON (dash cluster lamps glow (warnings)
2 blinkers on. make sure this is blinking (this means, grab the turn signal combo stalk lever and select left or right blink mode.)
3 ok all 3 voltages are checked, at relay actual, not the COMBO.
4 now see the red hand drawn lamp above? that is a test lamp, do that next, connect the test lamp ground pig tail wire to body ground
5 touch it to Relay 3, it glows because there is 12vdc there. (if not? the COMBO is bad ! we know it has power and fuse is good before.)
6 then touch Relay pin 2 with lamp probe tip, this simulates a working blinker, and will now blink and you will here the blinker clicking.
7 if it dont blink and click now. the relay is bad. see bench test below.
8 we can bench test the relay with that test lamp, very easy.
BENCH101:
how ? well lets do that now . its not hard at all. Relay out of car.
A using a 12vdc battery , connect minus battery lug to pin 1 on relay.
B then connect battery plus lug, to pin 3 of relay
C then connect the test lamp pig tail ground, to battery minus lug
D then touch the test lamp probe tip to pin 2 on relay, the lamp must flash or the relay is bad. and click. (stock clicks, after market relays may not)
this completes, phase 1 and 2 testing, and 1 bench test of relay.
if we get this far, (i doubt it) we can do the cars MAIN HARNESS LOADS, blinker side next. easy.
![[Image: 3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg)
So what you mean is I should get the test light for better testing? YES. Needle won't work?
the meter is great, but the meter will NOT simulate real lamp loads. that is needed to test most blinkers.
Quote: Lets say I pinch the green wire with needle (backprobe) and touch it key on will the DMM go from 0 to 12v if there is power to it? sat first i thought you are hot wiring the green wire. not now.
my guess is the above is asking does the meter tell the truth, yes, it always does. if there is power to a pin and is 12vdc then that power feed
is working, that is what a DMM does, measures voltage.
the Flasher relay needs 0v on ground and 12v on its pin 2 power pin, if it does, then the relay has power. and is now blinking,
its that simple, but some relays need a load to work right.
the DMM does not present any type of a load, at all. and some relays will fail to work with no load.
that is why I drew a lamp in read hand drawn way, to show me using a test lamp, that creates such a load, (my cars lamps are all remove now)
i told you shorted lamps will not work right. they over load the relay..
Quote:Or it does not work that way, only real light?
There are 12v from turn fuse and hazard fuse all the way to combo switch, but no power to relay in that yel/wht wire (pin 3) going into relay?
Quote:you say this but is the keyon, and the combo in the blinker ON mode?
Quote: Nor green?All of this done with the needle ([color=#FF4500]please say meter , dmm or voltmeter). Maybe I'm complicating matters?
when you say needle , this can be , backprobling needles/probes. or meter needle, or test light tip probe needle.
confuses me.
when green was dead, was the key on, and blinker combo switch turned to blink left or right?
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-23-2014
My bad. Back probing (10
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-23-2014
to do that test right,
its best to not have any blinker lamps in the car, (i told you they short easy and you ignore this fact)
the relay will not LIKE short lamps or lamp feed wires. not at all.
its your choice to start under the dash, not mine, i start with
all new bulbs or no bulbs.
or just one blub ONLY. on left rear tail.
then test left blinkers, do this lamp work?
yes, or no.
then i pull the relay and bench test it. ok it works.
I then have no lamps in the car. all removed, all blinkers.
then i do test 1 to 8 list above, and use a tea-
see page 3 and 4 here, blickers full schematic?
see the green wire at each light, it must not be grounded out. but if one side were grounded, just that side would fail.
http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/95%20electrics/all-lamps95b.pdf
this is why I test the relay in the car, steps 1 to 8 first.
this is the middle of the circuit and we gain great knowledge testing here, at the relay
(eg, bad relay or pin 2 or 3 is dead.)
see?
if pin 3 is dead at relay then the combo is dead.
if pin 2 is dead, with DMM and with a test light per steps 1 to 8 , if step 6 fails the relay is bad. end story.
why not just do step 6 first. ?????
using a DMM then a test light
the test light can be any 12vdc lamp (not a LED) the test lamp simulates the normal heavy load of the blinkers.
some blinkers will not blink unless there is a minimum load.
here is the guts of the relay.
my drawing, this is all I know about it, i do not know the trip thresholds for , under load or overload, but it does have them.
![[Image: blink-guts.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/look/blink-guts.jpg)
most of these relays , have overload sensors and underload.
that is why LEDs fail on cars that use this blinker.
and why they blink at a funny rate of under loaded or overloaded. (by design) some relays go dead, with no lamp loads.
some do that, if one lamp is out (odd rate), warning driver that , yes, a lamp is out.
and some owners of cars, buy a new blinker relay that is not stock or that was sold as "works with LEDs"
so that is why I do the tests , in a worst case method, with a DMM and a real test light.
see?
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-23-2014
Got it. Thanks as always. Ill keep you posted.
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-23-2014
key on but no way/or tell to have blinker combo on??
key on
you hand grabs the turn signal ever and push it to left turn or right turn, why is this hard, its lever broken?
what i need is tests at the relay, the 8 tests.
do all tests at just the relay, using a DMM , then using a test light.
no need for test light is say step 1 to 5 fails in post 17 above.
we need to back probe the relay, (needle back probe it) using first the DMM (volts) and last a real test lamp. (any)
you can find an old car lamp. off wrecked car, and use that, a side lamp is best off an old car, 2 wires.
free?
i dont need the hazard working,
i only need 12vdc to pin3 on the blinker relay. if that happens we have power, to the relay.
need at least steps 1 to 3 done.
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-23-2014
Lol!! That was my guess after further reading! I was confusing combo switch with Hazard button(which is missing hence my how in the hell). Lever had to be either signals left or right. Okie. Will do a report back to you. Aye aye sir!!
Well, key on a signalling either side with lever nothing blinks in cluster nor any sound. That was discussed at the beginning, after the smoke event where I told you that fuse was back in but nothing worked. I will do step 6 to get relay out of the way.
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-23-2014
for sure no hurry, or me , playing , gawd over names,!
and yes, they are all obscure to all normal folks.
the combo does 2 things, it directs power to the blinker relay
and then takes that pulling output of the relay module and directs it to left or right side of car.
in the case of hazard mode, both sides at once.
Im telling you we can fix this no matter, no hurry and we can , talk back and forth, no problems.
if we run astray no problems we just REDO,
good luck to you !!!
(11-23-2014, 04:29 AM)zukitrek Wrote: Lol!! That was my guess after further reading! I was confusing combo switch with Hazard button(which is missing hence my how in the hell). Lever had to be either signals left or right. Okie. Will do a report back to you. Aye aye sir!!
Well, key on a signalling either side with lever nothing blinks in cluster nor any sound. That was discussed at the beginning, after the smoke event where I told you that fuse was back in but nothing worked. I will do step 6 to get relay out of the way.
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-23-2014
Ok fix. I did my own test light, tested with battery and it works. I soldered the 10