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+--- Thread: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l (/thread-help-confirm-the-data-of-96-sidekick-sport-1-8l)
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-16-2020
(01-14-2020, 01:03 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 10:58 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 03:24 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:47 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 09:05 AM)rasmeidirt Wrote: I have never touched this, so not sure if it is old or new or original or even wrong one?? However, it is four wires sensor at the header. But I have never seen any codes thrown relating to the O2. What is the correction to this?? Shops here seem to have no clue regarding this issue. Is it downstream or upstream??? The one at the header or after the cat??
The engine is just 097394 miles. Probably my air filter is dirty??
the front sensor is called sensor 1, front, or upstream. it controls fuel mixture.
the rear sensor called sensor 2, or rear or down stream or rear cat sensor has nothing to do with fuel mixture, it only does the CAT tests. all cars 96 , up , petrol or gasoline.
on all machines you can only do 3 things, do tests, guess or just ignore it.
your choice.
my guess is that you drive it for such short distances the OBD2 monitors never fully run, to find the more advance checks failing. like fuel trim , not right.
Thanks. What about the crack?? I have attached the pic?
that crack looks to ,me to only in the web, not into the tube, did you inspect the back side too with a mirror, it must not leak air in to the exhaust ports .
but I'd never guess what is going on there, . only you can do the inspections.
does the CL closed loop only fail at idle, try testing it at 2500 steady,, even parked. hot. scanning only at idle is not good enough.
Thank you very much for this. I used a touch, a mirror and even a magnifying device to have a look. On the back, it is more or less in the middle like the front picture. I tried to clean it and start the car to get it hot and dried in order to see it clearly. Are there any other ways to test it???
This is the picture of my Sport's current CAT https://imgur.com/cH13Ry5 The previous owner had changed it and I have just noticed it. I have no idea what is inside?? Does it have anything to do with the run rich engine??? Or make the car smell the burning gas at the back???
After cleaning the front crack https://imgur.com/r91X0Jx and the back crack looks a bit longer than the front https://imgur.com/6qSbIhO Anyway, where there is crack there is a leak. That is what I believe!!
Today the ecm has played on me!!https://imgur.com/jZjUCuc
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-18-2020
(01-16-2020, 05:55 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-14-2020, 01:03 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 10:58 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 03:24 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:47 PM)fixkick Wrote: the front sensor is called sensor 1, front, or upstream. it controls fuel mixture.
the rear sensor called sensor 2, or rear or down stream or rear cat sensor has nothing to do with fuel mixture, it only does the CAT tests. all cars 96 , up , petrol or gasoline.
on all machines you can only do 3 things, do tests, guess or just ignore it.
your choice.
my guess is that you drive it for such short distances the OBD2 monitors never fully run, to find the more advance checks failing. like fuel trim , not right.
Thanks. What about the crack?? I have attached the pic?
that crack looks to ,me to only in the web, not into the tube, did you inspect the back side too with a mirror, it must not leak air in to the exhaust ports .
but I'd never guess what is going on there, . only you can do the inspections.
does the CL closed loop only fail at idle, try testing it at 2500 steady,, even parked. hot. scanning only at idle is not good enough.
Thank you very much for this. I used a touch, a mirror and even a magnifying device to have a look. On the back, it is more or less in the middle like the front picture. I tried to clean it and start the car to get it hot and dried in order to see it clearly. Are there any other ways to test it???
This is the picture of my Sport's current CAT https://imgur.com/cH13Ry5 The previous owner had changed it and I have just noticed it. I have no idea what is inside?? Does it have anything to do with the run rich engine??? Or make the car smell the burning gas at the back???
After cleaning the front crack https://imgur.com/r91X0Jx and the back crack looks a bit longer than the front https://imgur.com/6qSbIhO Anyway, where there is crack there is a leak. That is what I believe!!
Today the ecm has played on me!!https://imgur.com/jZjUCuc
Today, the ECM has played again!! It looks like the crack does not affect at all.https://imgur.com/tHS2u0n
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-18-2020
none of that is stock original (CAT) it's all welded in by some local shop., ALIEN parts..
the rear O2 sensor goes to a under seat of drivers seat rubber grommet,
the front 02 is on the exhaust header,
all these manifold made by Suzuki are junk , they love to crack. (too thin and weak) (or owners abused the car, ?)
the link above ending in Jx is dead. (not public set, and blocked.
the front 02 sensor must not be exposed to cracks. (that includes bottom header gasket and the head to manifold flange gasket, NO LEAKS HERE allowed on any car 1996 USA or newer)
factoid #1:
when the exhaust port barks (putts) the pressure goes positive then negative, (see graphic for proof)
when it does that, and there is a crack, the crack sucks in 20% Oxygen this blinds the O2, like you looking into the sun,. this is how ant 02 front works, and bad deal for fueling.
and will be worse at idle. most times. (no cruising data presented)
this is pure physics you hear a putt, about it is more complex, per this great drawing of the pressure wave.
POINT B is when the crack sucks in 20% oxygen from the atmosphere. (20.9 at sealevel and 10% on the highest road in the world 18k feet)
TDC is top dead center
BDC is bottom dead center. "A" is the exhaust valve opening. (overlap is Intake and exhaust valve overlap period)
this is the first thing to learn about how EFI works and AFR , Air fuel ratio's work on a hot engine, closed loop. if the ECU can not get rational readings from the front O2 the ECU ends closed loop. ( this is like you trying to hang glide in a tornado, you park you wings and go to the basement at home and hide. until things get better.
The sensor must not be covered in mud or oil or grease, the sensor has 2 ports, one inside and on air port on the outside and the outside too must not be clogged with junk.
If you unscrew the front 02, many folks see 2 things, bad. then tip is a wreck or the top is buried in black carbon.
Also one more fact, on engines, like this, that is when the engine goes rich that means the fuel (un-burned fully)exits the engine, this cloud of unburned fuel does 2 bad things.
1: makes the CAT burn up inside and even melt inside. (the cat glows red at cruise) not good ever.
2: makes the exhaust manifold glow red (like a jet engine afterburner) and the exh.. Manifold cracks, (over stressed)
this is common when folks don't do tune-ups (a.k.a service points) checking the EFI for errors and new 02 (front S1) sensor at 90k miles.
this are cascade failures, one part fails and takes out others.... (most times the DASH CEL lamp blinks 1996 and newer cars) the owners manual tells you that means car needs service, or damage happens, my car , even states, do no not tow a trailer , get the car repaired now, in a shop, they say that so the cat does not MELT, for a fact.
THE EFI does all that and more.
![[Image: exhaustscavenging-p1-1.JPG]](https://fixkick.com/exhaust/exhaustscavenging-p1-1.JPG)
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-18-2020
to understand closed loop (O2) READ SUSUKI'S WORDS HERE,
ON PAGE 10 (closed loop)
https://fixkick.com/engine/18L/random.pdf
TO ADD TO SUZUKI Anemic LIST. OF FAILS.
ADD:
1: O2 DEAD. front.
2: exhaust leaks near 02 front.
3: leaking injectors or stuck closed. a dead injector.
4: MAF dead. (if it goes dead engine goes to limphome mode.
5: the endless (seems) list of limphome mode causes, (sensors other than 02 bad, do that)
6: dead cylinders, or any form of gross misfire. (spark bad, tops list as does low compression not 199PSI, x4.)
7: bad fuel, causing #3. easy.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-18-2020
one more point
yes welding cast iron is hard, takes special oven and special rod. (and top skills many do not have,, not me,)
there is epoxy just for manifold cracks, they sell that some say works, I'd never fool with that, Id buy a top steel manifold,
Exhaust manifolds Doug Thorley (NO) and here is Calmini (says no) no J18 , only G16
seems only way to get header is from suzuki or custom made in welding shop, Id go custom. so it would not crack next time.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-19-2020
During searching for the oven for welding the header, I took the car for a long drive, the data of the fuel trim, both ST FTRM1 and LT FTRM1 are o when the RPM was 20k or 30k and sometimes -1 or -2. When the car arrived home, the data at idle shows as in the attached pic: https://imgur.com/5FIvOjw What is the real problem of the header crack now???
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 08:11 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote: During searching for the oven for welding the header, I took the car for a long drive, the data of the fuel trim, both ST FTRM1 and LT FTRM1 are o when the RPM was 20k or 30k and sometimes -1 or -2. When the car arrived home, the data at idle shows as in the attached pic: https://imgur.com/5FIvOjw What is the real problem of the header crack now???
so is intermittent, and goes into and out of closed loop status. )random or by natural thermal actions.
metal expands HOT and cracks can seal up hot by actions of thermodynamic material effects.
ever seen a crack no get worse in time. or self heal... never happens.
My friend a ASE for long time, said so well,
" You can see it is broke, why are you not fixing that first?"
finding suzuki parts is never easy nor for sure cheap, and this part is a know common failure path. Cracks. (but not on 89 to 95 8valve engines G16A)
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-20-2020
here is my 1996,
see the factory cat, see the shields, all that is stock.
see the O2 sensor REAR, (a.k.a. down stream) this sensor does the P0421 magic cat good tests, only.
photos,. see cat? see O2 rear? and transfer case.
![[Image: 96MT_underbodyexperience%20%2812%29.JPG]](https://fixkick.com/temp/96MT_underbodyexperience%20%2812%29.JPG)
the G16b has the same problem, super super common and same results (02 front goes MAD) and burns way too much fuel. seen and found by vast owners fixers.
Easy fix on G16b, manifolds are sold, but not J18, no aftermarket manifold that I can fin, but googling all day is not my bag.
![[Image: 96-num4-cracked.JPG]](https://fixkick.com/look/96-num4-cracked.JPG)
shields off day 1, look and behold cracks, front or rear. and it will not GET BETTER IN TIME.
I'd weld up my own from scratch if none sold. or costs too much.
The J18 engine is a rare engine, very few cars sold (besides Esteem) and makers of parts do not want to make parts for rare cars.. (tooling costs huge ,profits low to none)
the G16b engine, this is sold. (was sold and maybe now, but just showing you what aftermarket parts can look like here. one of the best in fact.)
![[Image: cammini-header.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/exhaust/cammini-header.jpg)
not YOURS !but
here it is...
your manifold from SUZUKI real is, P/N #) is ::::: 14111-77EA0
$375 from calif, suzuki, plus tax, plus ship.
FAQ: on this,
- No the G16 manifolds will not fit,
- nor from any esteem or swift or any other car.
- a J20 engine (not FWD front wheel drive) may fit, IDK, and will never know. from say a VITARA 1999 up..
- Yes, the J18 is under-stroked J20, and yes many parts inside a j20 do in fact fit a J18 but manifolds , IDK, and well never know.
- The J20 comes in many generations too, A and B, and more, and are not the same in may regards. (years matter)
YMMV, your motor may vary, cheers
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-20-2020
one more. (there are 3 paths for air leaks) here is path 2. (1 is crack.) 3 is head to exh port gasket bad.
brand new out of the box,
see the header collector port there, huge round and a bad gasket there will do the same thing, suck in illegal oxygen. mine too cracked, so, I replaced it.
![[Image: exh-collector1.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/exh-collector1.jpg)
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-20-2020
(01-20-2020, 01:54 AM)fixkick Wrote: one more. (there are 3 paths for air leaks) here is path 2. (1 is crack.) 3 is head to exh port gasket bad.
brand new out of the box,
see the header collector port there, huge round and a bad gasket there will do the same thing, suck in illegal oxygen. mine too cracked, so, I replaced it.
Regarding the welding of cast iron, I have got four comments or suggestions as follows.
1- Some people can weld cast iron. i don't recommend it.
2- Not if its done correctly. Cast Iron is weldable, but requires special arc rods and the item needs proper prep and pre-heating. Brazing will crack again, but if its prepped and pre heated and cooled correctly then hot welded it will take a while. Nickel based arc would be better. Cold weld method is below. Can do it hot, hot is preferable, weld at 350F straight from the oven, and wrap in a weld blanket or cover in hot sand to slow cooling and relieve stresses. Cronatron 211 cast iron rods are the best i've found. Heat casting to 350F minimum to bake off any impurities, let cool slowly (blanket method will do here). V-groove the joint 90 degrees, leaving a small root, 1/16" to 3/32", then grind the surface of the casting to clean up the porosity about 1/4" away from the joint. Use low heat, 60 - 80 amps for a 3/32 rod, and weld stringer beads, not more than 2 - 3 inches in length. Peen the weldment between passes, and let the casting cool between passes so you can touch it with your bare hand. The more peening during cooling, the better. Avoid weaving because it contracts the edges of the groove too much and causes cracking. I've used many different types of cast rods for repair, Ni Rod, Arctec supercast 80 and 90, Arctect cast 3, Certainium alloys, and another, Cronetron 211. Cronetron 211, as put, "the cast iron problem solver', is by far the best I've encountered in the past twelve years. Any of these electrodes will work, as long as they contain a sufficent amount of nickel. You want a rod that has a good elongation, so it doesn't allow cracking before you peen. Some electrodes are designed for hot cast welding, where temps are controlled for lengths of time, and some are more forgiving. After the joint is filled, you can grind the face reinforcement off and finish the weld repair with a needle scaler to give it a 'as cast look' which also relieves stress at the same time.
3- Yes, cast iron can be welded and there is lots of information online. Most of what you read will be about static pieces that were broken. This is a piece that cracked from a bad design with stresses in the part itself. If you have it welded, check the gasket surface for flatness, before you reinstall. Welding can cause the piece to warp slightly. The longest surface is for the gasket. Welding on the runners can cause stress in different places, causing it to warp as it cools. Welding the part after it has been heated, will help.
4- If I were welding this, I would use TIG, as it will weld with low heat and not change the stress.
What do you think which one is the best to try?