+- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki)
+--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker)
+--- Thread: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start (/thread-1994-suzuki-sidekick-16v-wont-start)
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - pen25 - 12-22-2017
And sorry. 1994 sidekick 16v jx Auto. 4wd 4 door.
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - pen25 - 12-23-2017
ok well i was out messing with this and was thinking about code 41. and i came back in and read more and remembered about the tach question. the tach doesnt move. so read some more and found that code 41 means tach signal isnt being generated or seen. i am thinking this could be a noise sensor or wiring. i can cot check the wiring but is there a quick down and dirty on testing the noise supressor?
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - fixkick - 12-29-2017
suppressors never fail, ever, they fall off or get crashed at engine swaps or wire same, deal ripped apart,
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slideshow/images/supressor97w.jpg
on the 94 it can be in left loom harness, (drivers left not standing left)
Supressor can be near the loom at the left STRUT tower. i think all suzuki its on left top bay, all are or same place but fire wall 96 +
USA drivers left bay side. (on UK cars, different as in England)
you have 41? cranked for 5 full seconds, release key ?
code 41 cuts fuel instantly (hard firmware rules, ending the fire thing. )
code 41 can be, bad coil, bad ignitor. (or bad ECU, )
you said there is no spark at the coil so that is a hard fact and if no spark at the coil the , suppressor gets no input and no possible tack signal ever.
that was 4 parts (cmp , ecu, ignitor and coil) (and the 3 good fuses sure) that is all there is to this.
again, here is how it works,
CMP must work, must work.we test it easy.
ECU must have power and see CMP pulses at 0v 5v 0v 5v, a square wave, cranked can be seen with any analog needle voltmeter made for 50 long years even the $9 one at walfart.
ECU sees that and then fires (a signal small)fires the ignitor, the ignitor is just a huge power transistor, it charges the coil (ECU does the charging) and then the ECU disable the ignitor
and the COIL makes a huge spark... (called Induction coil effect' wiki that now) the ignitor is what replaced POINTS in the old days. but charges the coil the same exact way,
The ECU controls DWELL and timing, here. (you cant)
that is all there is to spark ,
when spark dies .
the ECU sees its dead (via the supressor), sets code 41,(or 42) and then flat refused to inject fuel again, preventing crash and burn as see on TV.
code 42 is CMP dead.
Code 41 means the ignitor is dead. (or coil primary open) or the suppress fell off the harness loom.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slideshow/images/supressor97w.jpg
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - pen25 - 12-29-2017
Thank you for confirmation. I didn't think it would fail but with everything I wanted to make sure. I tried to check the coil and couldn't get any readings at all so will pull it out and take it inside as it's in the 20s here. I have swapped everything but the dist so coil sounds like the likely culprit
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - fixkick - 01-11-2018
the coil is like 5 ohms primary and 20,000 secondary to case./
code 41 is :
coil primary dead. (or said other way the brown tacho wire is dead , no tach signals cracked.)
the ECU can not see the Ignitor pulse.
bad coil
bad ignitor
missing supressor.(fell off lost)
or as always bad wires to same above or connectors pins bad/corroded,. etc)to same devices. (parts)
good luck and hope it warms up..
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - pen25 - 01-11-2018
Well I replaced the coil. Was getting no reading. Now I'm getting a code 12. Still no start and no spark. Think I have a dead rotor or cap. Waiting for a new set to come in. Oh getting spark from coil
Thx for the help
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - fixkick - 01-12-2018
did you crank for 5 full seconds? code 41 or 42 take long cranking in the book for the car it tells you how many RPM spins that is, its like 5 full crank shaft spins. but as human i cant count that fast so use 5 seconds as a test rule. (1 potato 2 potato to 5) and release key see if 41 or 42 blink? that is how it must be done. or you miss the boat.
5 spins a second is par , it may take 20 pins or 4 seconds or 25 spins for 5 seconds, see? the book tells this but i do forget the exact number the book.
10 years ago , i forget?
the cap /rotor do not make spark the coil does and you said its dead. the coil is DEAD you said,
and the test (coil tower HV >>>.test spark wire>>> tests spark plug>>>spark gaped to .028" >>> spark plug shell grounded is the test.
this failed failed.
and that means
1 coil bad.
2 ignitor bad.
3 or bad ecu
4 a bad cmp?, bad cmp will be missed dtc seen, if you dont crank long enough. to get the DTC error for CMP dead.
Test the CMP pin with voltmeter (needle kind) set to volts, black to ground, and red to output pin CMP. crank see the needle wag 0 to 5vdc over and over. a good CMP
then we remove it from the list above.
code 42 is bad cmp
gee, unplug the Distributor, lower , case, low voltage connector,
crank for 5 full seconds
release key ,do not turn key OFF yet.
see 42 flash?, see the ECU is not blind to bad CMP. dead. Ive never seen and ECU be dead this way. (well with power on 3 pins to ECU)
now put the cable back to casing plug,
crank again same way, 42s gone?
sure they are?
do not run lacking the DOME fuse or the ECU will not remember DTC errors, key off.
FI and IGCOIL and DOME fuses all must be good.
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - fixkick - 01-12-2018
you had code 41 before, my guess is you forget to crank for 5 full seconds, missing code 41 again.
keep in mind i cant watch you so , i can only guess you do the tests correctly ok?
good luck to you!!!!
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - pen25 - 01-23-2018
Well this is all what happened. 2 and a half years ago I replaced my flasher and the fi relay. At the time the relay was making noise.
A year and a half ago I parked the sidekick and went to California for 3 months.
After I got back I couldn't start it so I changed the fuel filter thinking it's been a long time since I replaced it. It still wouldn't start. So started checking for codes and wasn't able to pull any.
I started reading and thought I'd pull the ecu as it didn't seem like it was wanting to run and had knew the ecu was never replaced and suspected bad caps. After looking at the board there was nothing that looked bad and the ecu looked clean as can be.
So I reinstalled the ecu and started troubleshooting the no spark. Ordered the plugs wires cap rotor and replaced them all and found no change. Checked spark at coil and no go
So next thing was igniter. And still no spark. After more reading it occured to me I had read about a relay for the ecu. Replaced the relay and I was able to pull codes which gave me the 41.
I had pretty much replaced everything except distributor or coil.
Pulled coil and was not able to get any reading so ordered a new coil.
Replaced coil and code 41 went away. Gad good solid spark but still wouldn't start.
After sitting thinking I remembered fi and ecu were the same relay so swapped them.
The when turned the key on one of the relays started buzzing and the check engine like stopped flashing.
So swapped back got code 12 again. Went and picked up a new fi relay and it fired right up.
I knew I replaced the relay a couple years ago so I had also checked the grounds before getting a new relay. So I had several problems that snowballed at one time.
Like I said before I have treated this kick like a red headed stepchild and haven't done anything to or for it other then change the oil and give it gas. So it was just time to put some work into it.
Now I have the timing belt seals waterpumo and all hoses ordered and will pull the kick into the garage for a major tuneup and fresh fluids all around. Maybe it will treat me well for another several years.
Again thank you for your help.
RE: 1994 suzuki sidekick 16v wont start - fixkick - 01-23-2018
bad coil cured 41s,great so now you have spark at the coil (the story in a shop)
next is spark at the spark plugs. all 4, must spark
and the timing light is next, to see that spark lands near 5 degrees BTDC, (5 to the left of 0 on the scale.
if way off the cam belt slipped is all do after 60k miles. easy.
now magically the car will start eveny with no fuel in the gas tank using instant start in a can , in fact can keep it running with my finger on the spray button
did it? the above steps proves 2 things, sparks really ok, end to end and the engine runs. 2 very important poofs
next you changed 2 relays, one below ecu is Main, other is fuel pump relay green socket, if you had looked, both are same part number exactly
if one buzzed key one swapped or not that tell you the fuel pump is shorted overloading all power to the ECU, (very very common)
this overload condition is covered in my pump page.
maybe wrong relay there.?
maybe one relay is now damage from pump overload. fuel pumps short, that one of there many bad acts.
and more, there will be lost of other problems. on any old car. (pump and FPR are 2)
so in the end 41s told the truth, coil primary signals dead.
cmp was ok, no code 42s (done right)
coil ways bad, but not just it, the relays bad.(or humptydumpied by the pump) humpty was pushed joke.
the pump is 4 amps. static, not 10 , the odd thing the wires are so bad the FI fuse dont blow.and the overload just cause Ecu POWER TO DROP AND FAil.
when the ecu fails,it reboots over and over madly, but cant so the relays chatter. vast sidekicks do that, when the pump is bad, or wires shorted to pump.
in a real shop we scope the pump wire
and go, like this, hay bob check out this pump it has bad commutator, see that huge 15 amp spike ever turn of the pump?
and gusess what if you stop car, key off and that segment lands on the wrong spot 4:1 odds or 6? the pump then overloads the ECU like clock work.
old fuel pumps do this. we test static current then with a scope for dynamic currents.
the wiring at the ECU sucks, its tiny and weak and can not function with any mad pumps. like that.
glad to see its running again,,, red head or now.