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+--- Thread: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. (/thread-a-t-4speed-fails-car-wont-move-until-hot)
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
Im trying Im trying!!Is this is the damn TCM plug?
Wow it has become very hard to unplug and I don't want to go medieval on it.
Ok finally got the plug out. Well looks like bad tranny (what a surprise!!) Raced the engine on L up to 3k rpm (car felt sluggish) then left off gas and moved lever to 2 (3rd) but it did not seem to engage at all. Car felt even more sluggish. Reverse had good power as always. What else can we test before saying, well is rebuild time?
Thanks for everything!!
Javier
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-19-2015
ive got the better fsm pages now on 4speed.
im going to annotate it, (its for 1996+) so i need to say, scan PCM then scan Tcm. if you have errors in PCM (engine) then fix engine side first.
then when engine runs perfectly then correct all TCM errors , or scans (1997 is OBD2 now) then fix DTC errors or OD flash codes as the case may apply.
the logic tables there (diag) list TV cable as #3
list:
fluid levels ok, fluid red color, filter clean.
engine power not weak , doing road test. (manual mode if necessary)
transmission does not slip, doing stall test. or when doing road test.
check TV end to end.
ECT reads 180F or more. if the ECT reads low (bad engine thermostat ) the TCM may not go to OD. says so in the 1998 book.
if any step above fails, line pressure is low, then the trans is bad. if TV works, if TV fails, fix that first. (above)
ok, all connectors on the car have locks..... youd not want them to fall off, and cause and accident right?
they all do. most you squeeze the lever. the FSM shows how to do this on page 1 of the electrics pages...
the book is free. 1996, check it out....
see that black button in the center, that be a locking button, (some look like that , others are lever locks)
press it and wiggle , do not go rough here, wiggle the main conn. while pressing the lock, this works on all connectors this way.
so you need to look at all things in manual mode.
you didnt , it seems
RPM and speed, they are linked (transmissions does that) and the rpm rises and the speed rises in direct porportions to the engine rpm.
if the RPM jumps high and car speed dont that is called slip.
1st gear, you said car felt sluggish, well all cars do in 1st. even the mighty 5speed manual box. its called 1st gear and the ratio is huge (trans x axle (math)
but does not SLIP , do you now understand slip
if engine power is lacking then it is... for sure up hills. (load)
the you shifted to (2nd) and the RPM dropped way low ,RIGHT, , or slips? (RPM rises for all slips) slips are and out of control deal, lack of TRANSMISSION of power to rear wheels, so if the RPM drops low, and acts sluggish now, well that is normal for going 1 to 3.
ever driver a manual transmission car ever or motorcycle?
same thing,, same reasons, 1 to 3 is a HUGE ratio jump,.
what matters is , it didnt slip, , and on flat ground, you can accelerate in 3rd to huge speeds. then go to 4th, when fast enough, so engine dont LUG.
you do know what lug means right?, (engine overloaded)
you never said how 3rd really acted, only felt.
acted is , what RPM and what speeds did you do in 3rd, and if it slips. we need to know THAT.
speed, RPM and slipping, and performance.
its just a 3rd gear planetary gear set there, locked in 3rd now... all slip if any is in the TC. (clutch)
it will feel CONNECTED, sure sluggish , due to radical ratio changes, 1 to 3rd.
go faster in 1st, and lessen the effect some.... see?
this is the manual tests. as seen in the FSM. (all years 92 to 2004 (at the least)
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
TCM was jumpered last week and driven and only got 12's all the time. DLC was also jumpered 2 and 4 and got only 12's key on. I still have the engine shutting off with clip on. That one is still bugging. All fuses where checked sand looked ok.
Ill keep you posted.
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-19-2015
your welcome.
(10-19-2015, 10:27 PM)zukitrek Wrote: OK but according to list you sent on PDF mine is not listed unless I can use any 58Bxx? Or not? I saw mine but as a remark you made in red.
See there? Second line top to bottom? (why read the 2nd line its for calif only cars.!!!!!!!!!!!!
that 59 mark is calif mark, my guess is they took 58 and added 1.
the last page is the 1994 ECU for the FEDERAL USA, sidekick 16v, did you not read the last page,
this pdf shows every single ECU in NORTH American even Canada. market..... see that? look again more closely.....
Ok. will try that now. O2 sensor is bosch and replace at the beginning of the year. GOOD but dont mean it works, after all exhaust leaks make all 02 read wrong, (not damaged ) imagine dropping a room thermometer in the sink of cold water, it reads wrong, but is not damaged. see????
Will let you know.
Javier
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
No I could not accelerate more in 3 (2) than I did on 1(L). Did not look at RPM on 3rd but in 1st(L) I got all the way up to 3k but could not get more. I tried the 1 to 3 shift at 3k rpm and if it did engaged I would have felt it, right? Well no, I did not. It would still feel and behave like in 1st (L).
Ok now saw my ECU number. Got fooled by the black bar at top. Thought all numbers were on the white are
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-20-2015
the o2 works , if and only the output swings, about .2 to .8v
this is how it works, the swinging is the ECU hunting, perfection, over and over. the ECU does that, the new 02 is good.
if the exhaust leaks, #4 tube cracks are 90% of this. then it sticks at 0v. and goes rich. and misfires (lower power) and cat gets hot.
and MPG falls.
does water temp reach and hold 180F or more. if not the ECU and TCM will not work right. both.
the last page is here. Cut.
is this not clear, the V mean VAn, or 4doors,
![[Image: 3_19_10_15_2_08_37.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_19_10_15_2_08_37.jpeg)
note how it matches yours exaclty, engine./trans, year, doors, and fed, (not calif)
see? AT means automatic version
only works on 16v mpi engines
the calif might work if EGR is changed out and harness rewired, at both ends.
the 1995 wont work for the same reasons (EGR and more)
the B20, B40 and B60 are for older years, and all the smog parts will fail.... (egr is different) it will run, but there are not too many folks trying to run the wrong ecu,
I did for 1 year, a/t ecu in an m/t ,. no problems. seen.
but you cant do that, use m/t on A/t car. or the TCM goes nuts. and TCC fails.
but all this is still moot
we need the data , speed, rpm and slip tests in each gear.
called the manual mode tests....
as i told you ,the trans must not slip (beyond TC normal slip)
the engine must have full power or the shift points will be wrong, (for you)
never condemn a Tranny until engine power is restored.
if in fact it is low... i cant tell , i can't drive it.
subjective to extreme this... (live human tests)
"if it did engaged" (3d)
what you failed to say is what 3rd did,,,?
1: acts like 1 st gear and does not slip , exactly the same, yes then that is 1st . and 3rd failing. (as stated in the fsm and my first post line pressure is next)
2: RPM drops power is horrible (normal) do so on flat ground and see car accelerate, it will be slow, but is in 3rd gear. so.... it will......about 50mph shift to od (Drive)
what matters is speed, RPM and car movement and if it slips.... (a driver sees all those things, I CAN NOT)
you must communicate them to me... or i will tell you wrong.
seems 3rd gear is dead, and that my guess would mean, that normal mode.
trans shifts from 1, to 2nd then stays in 2nd and will never hit 3rd gear, and would not do OD as that be impossible from 2nd.
count your gears, ?
didnt notice , 3rd is missing, (in normal mode)
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-20-2015
Test was done this morning with TCM finally unplugged, thus 2nd gear is missing. I will retest tonight and make a video for you.
Yes in normal mode it would go from 1-2nd with good power and then it would stay on second and never change to 3rd. RPMS would be around 3k-2,500. Will look at everything tonight and report back to you.
Thanks!!!!
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-20-2015
missing , you mean its stuck in 1st when you select 3rd.
missing can be slip too.
try to keep the symptoms clear,
its in a gear, and does not slip. and acts like it stuck (not missing) in 1st gear.
you can see what gear it in, the engine rpm didnt change,, so the gear ratio didnt change nor speed, so it fail to shift.
its a bad transmission. if it fails that.
the the manual mode valve is failing to send pressure to 3rd gear. but oddly the solenoid can,
i do not have an accurate hydralic map of this box. all 5 FSm books i have fail to show that.
the last year they had that is a real 95 sidekick FSM>
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-20-2015
(10-20-2015, 01:37 AM)fixkick Wrote: missing , you mean its stuck in 1st when you select 3rd.
missing can be slip too.
Yes pretty much that, but Ill recheck tonight
its in a gear, and does not slip. and acts like it stuck (not missing) in 1st gear.
Yes also to the above line
you can see what gear it in, the engine rpm didnt change,, so the gear ratio didnt change nor speed, so it fail to shift.
its a bad transmission. if it fails that.
the the manual mode valve is failing to send pressure to 3rd gear. but oddly the solenoid can,
i do not have an accurate hydralic map of this box. all 5 FSm books i have fail to show that.
the last year they had that is a real 95 sidekick FSM>
Ill check again tonight and report back to you with a video.
Good day.
PS: No idea what could be wrong with that DLC connector shutting engine off when clip inserted? Ohh OK ill disassemble ECU and see and send pics back to you in case something looks odd.
Cheers
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-20-2015
Oh fix too tired to work on that video of the manual drive. Will sure try tomorrow.
Good night!!