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+--- Thread: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. (/thread-a-t-4speed-fails-car-wont-move-until-hot)
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-18-2015
OK sir. will read more and then try looking at that kickdown cable. Yes my guess if TV cable is bad it is not related to cold late shifting. So I still have the cold tranny not moving. So the rebuild would be a good idea. Ill keep you posted.
Have good day!!
Just started her up and tried reverse car cold and it took about 1.5 to engage.
So far the great big delay is only on drive.
Cheers!!
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
Ok it is a fact. With engine on I insert clip on pins 2-4 and engine shuts off. Let me get that number for the ECU for you.
Will be checking kick down cable now and report back to you.
Regards!!
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
(10-17-2015, 05:25 AM)fixkick Wrote: what is the ecu part number on car. is the ECU in steel box, not aluminum is it the 33920-58Bxx series : this series has no troubles at all running diag mode, any which why you dream up. (sounds like the ECU has issues) what if that ISSUE, caused the ECU load calc', data to the TCM to be wrong, too.
the ECU has network wire (serial) to the TCM the ECU sends data to the TCM so the TCM can make smart decisions.
Here it is:
Zoom in a bit to see more clearly. It ends 00 one 0 positive and the other reversed. Has a big A2 at right of label and below in reverser type USA-AT
Is a mitsubishi model:
The TCM connector has been a bitch to pull out. Is it that hard? Jesus!!
Still checking TV.
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
TV cable is Ok. Now I know which is the damn cable. Had taken it apart many times when doin the IM/EGR clean up. Does it have an specific adjustment/position on TB or a certain slack? Pulled it and it felt ok. Always retracting or returning when pulled by hand.
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-19-2015
2>4 jumper on the DLC it must flash. (is the 6 pin connector with the rubber cap, there are other connectors not used, and not DLCs
post 120 has link to my page showing the factory page, with calipration
here it is again
http://www.fixkick.com/tranny/slush/OD-flashes%20now%20what.html#kick-down_facts
see the "c" gap?
good the spring cam is working, all good.
the pin 2 and pin 4 (black wire and the blue yellow , with a metal jumper)
are they the right colors seen here.
![[Image: CAL-car-diag2.gif]](http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/CAL-car-diag2.gif)
those 2 pins DLC must not inhibit starts or cause stalls. or any odd things, (the other pins, not same answer)
i think you did this below. but same inside TCM. the caps can leak there too. (not going to solve cold flare fails, but might effect shifting delays, after warm.)
with ecu lid off.
are the caps. ok.
no green slime.
no black caps that say Rubicon on side
no cracks
no bulges.
no volcano on side..
no bottom plugs blown out cap.?
this is not good
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/hell/html/image_6.html
original 20 year old electrolytic caps on this cars ecu /tcm, are problematic,
that is a plain Jane normal ecu. 58B00 , standard, A/t ECU it is.
2 to 4.? of 6 pins. sure. next to battery.
it must not do that, nobody on any forum ever reported this. "effect"
"
Quote:With engine on, I insert clip on pins 2-4 and engine shuts off." stalls.if the DLC is upside down that be 3 to 5 jump, that be bad. (shorts CEL lamp out. (12v lamp off) to test switch terminal (freeze) << be bad that...
watch wire colors carefully on this connector. the pin 1 side has its own TANG (index)
seen here
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/cel-burned-out.jpg
inside ecu or tcm.
look for green slime next to each large cap x3.
yes the page for adjustments are in above post. 120...
the adjustment is to pull out the cable slack, then mark this point. as the photos show.
then put cable back using the mark to get the gap right. per next photo..
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
Fix OMG! OMG! OMG! Im getting closer! TV cable was really out of adjustment. It did not even have 1mm of clearance. Adjusted it and car did not even take 3 minutes to move (not saying that this is Ok) but thats an improvement.
Still did not shift from 2nd to 3rd but this time it felt stronger, did loose power, it just did not shift. Felt like it was about to. Still need to check the ECU cause that connector jumpered and car stalling is no good. So cross your fingers it is the ECU the problem (although I really don't know prices for them). Anyways Ill keep you posted. Thank Thank thank you!!
Well looks like I misinterpreted gap measure according to a ruler I have. Decided to enter measurement on a graphic software and now the gap is way to broad (but somehow improving the cold movement from 15min [Recorded time yesterday] to less than 3min) So yes the TV cable is influencing this matter. I will adjust it again to specs. Ill try to remove the ECU and have a look.
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
Hello again Fix. I was looking at your PDF for all ECU part numbers but I did not find or see mine (33920-58B00). Then looking it up in the internet I found this:
http://www.freewebs.com/suzukiparts4u/kicktrackcomputerinfo.htm
It may be wrong, but puts my ECU's number as an 8V ecu. Mine clearly says 16V on valve cover. What could be happening? Or it does not matter?
Talk to you tomorrow. Good night!!
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-19-2015
lost my long post... dang.
ok, lots of words, (complex topic, a/t is , as is ECU) double trouble.
first off that list of ECU is junk, sorry, but my list is USA Suzuki real. and complete
the 58 means MPI, 56 means TBI so....
58B00 (last digit is revision levels, or smog tweaks) B01 is version 2 of this ecu,
cardone sell sells it rebuilt for $400 , used no ebay, are $50 to $100, 99% scalpers there. so..... YMMV
look gain, type ecu in my search box, and land
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html#EPC
then pick your year
and get...... this
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/EPC-ECU96-98/all_other_years/89-95/89-95NA.pdf
see last page, and YOUR ecu, in fact see all ECU in NORTH AMERICA.
the newer cars are on my same 1st link above 1996 up.
the red words are my crib notes. showing the odd suzuki coding.....
next the 4speed 03-72LE (A44DE) trans.
so why not do the tests? (its first not new transmissions)
1: stall fails cold. (and shifts late hot)
so you remove the top end of the cable, TV,
then you feel it, is spring 17 working, if not it will never shift right if jammed (by any means ,end to end)
if the spring works, i can feel the cam move say 1.5" of spring travel (cam) after slack taken up, sure.
then it may be ok in the box.
if it feels ok, then now drive with it unconnected.
no more, 10min delay (whatever, as 1.2seconds delay is max spec) then drive. it,
does it shift up nice, ?
yes/no?
ok so now there can be 2 issues, here. like all A/t
lack of engine power, will cause all A/T to shift late. what if there were 2 problems (pretty normal for 20 year old cars, right?)
what if the engine is weak.
so unplug the TCM at TCM or at side of box, left side. connnector.
drive in Low, then 2nd, then Drive(OD)
and reverse last
do all gears work?
do any slip?
does engine have full power in each gear?????
drive low, 2nd and D, shift like a m/t box, with 2nd missing, so 1st will need RPM wind out. say 3000 rpm or more. the cut the throttle and shift to 2nd.
repeat, and wind that out, load it up and shift to D (od is 4th)
see?
suzuki does not publish the command authority of the cam #20....
(that means I dont know what happens if it sticks 100% open..... seems losts more than shift points are effected, seems it causes low line pressure full time.
and effects cold start too....
fixing 20 year old cars is not easy
for sure not having a scan tool, makes engine EFI diagnosis a pure hell....
case in point, you scan it and you have 02 sensor dead, or worst stuck at 1v.
or LTFT long term fuel trim is at +40% and worst stuck there and out of control...... (a horrid lean engine)
the A/t can not hide a weak engine. so the engine end is first. for sure. and is listed as #1 in my FSM on , 4speed, pages..... and should be...
btw1:
if the engine is weak, disconnecting the TV cable on top of engine TB< will allow it to shift better. (lowers shift points ) it might lug engine though.....
i have 10 fsm books on Vitara's (sidekicks ) etc.
and one the SQ416 has the best 4speed chapters. im exporting them to PDF now.
chapter 7B1-13 to 36 pages.
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - zukitrek - 10-19-2015
OK but according to list you sent on PDF mine is not listed unless I can use any 58Bxx? Or not? I saw mine but as a remark you made in red.
See there? Second line top to bottom?
Ok. will try that now. O2 sensor is bosch and replace at the beginning of the year.
Will let you know.
Javier
RE: A/T 4speed fails, car wont move until hot. - fixkick - 10-19-2015
you said , it wont shift to 4th gear, OD.
but will i bet on flat ground, and you back of the throttle with right foot, right?
the transmisson and the TCM are both setup to not shift , up, at huge throttle angles, the TCM and the TV both do that. (in some secret combination)
the TV and the TCM are both TUNED (calibrated / programmed) to shift with a NORMAL 95HP engine
if the engine is weak, then both fail.
only testing in manual mode can prove that case... drive with the TCM unplugged.
if it dont slip and power is weak then the engine is in fact weak, and all else is useless, worrying about a/t.....
this transmission is tuned for 95hp, not 50.
see?
a shop would find out that first...... (engine issues are first)
the newer Vitara/s 97+ the TCM is inside the ECU(Now called a PCM)
and you cant unplug tcm (ecu) or engine dies...
so they unplug the trans side connector (left)
starting in 1997,
which connector is more easy, I dont know. (depends on the person doing it) crawl under car, or under dash (panels off to gain access, TCM is way up high)
see?
they dont make cars easy to fix. its not in the list of goals...
unplugging the tcm , forces the transmission to only use ITS internal manual valve. for all gears. 1,3,4, rev.