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+--- Thread: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l (/thread-help-confirm-the-data-of-96-sidekick-sport-1-8l)
Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-12-2020
This is from my scan tool:
My BOSCH 1100 Live Data Plus scan tool showing at View Data at Idle
MIL STATUS (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) off
FUEL SYS 1 (Fuel System1 Loop Status) Open
FUEL SYS 2 (Fuel System2 Loop Status) N/A
CALC LOAD (%) (Calculated Engine Load) 3.1 – 5 not steady
COOLANT (*F) (Engine Coolant Temp) 210 steady
ST FTRM1 (%) (Short Term Fuel Trim1) 0.0 steady
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8
ENG SPEED (RMP) (Engine RPM) 775-800-825 not steady
VEH SPEED (MPH) (Vehicle Speed) 0
IGN ADV (*) (Timing Advance) 8.0 steady
IAT (*F) (Intake Air Temp) 111
MAF (LB/M) (Mass Air Flow) 0.38-39-40-41 not steady
ABSLT TPS (%) (Absolute Throttle Position) 0.0 steady
O2S11 (V) (O2 Sensor Concentration Bank1 Sensor1, Bank2 Sensor1) 0.140-150-160 not steady
ST FTRM11 (%) (Short Term Fuel Trim1) 0.0 steady
O2S12 (V) (O2 Sensor Concentration Bank1 Sensor2, Bank2 Sensor2) 0.310-320 not steady
OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA
Questions:
- The system is running OPEN loop, the ECU will not be utilizing any sensor data in this condition, is it true???
- With the engine at 210f the ECU should be in closed loop... Why not..., is it true???
With this data, can you help confirmed the spec figures of the fuel trims of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l???
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-12-2020
(01-12-2020, 03:24 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote: This is from my scan tool:
My BOSCH 1100 Live Data Plus scan tool showing at View Data at Idle
MIL STATUS (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) off
FUEL SYS 1 (Fuel System1 Loop Status) Open
FUEL SYS 2 (Fuel System2 Loop Status) N/A
CALC LOAD (%) (Calculated Engine Load) 3.1 – 5 not steady
COOLANT (*F) (Engine Coolant Temp) 210 steady
ST FTRM1 (%) (Short Term Fuel Trim1) 0.0 steady
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8
ENG SPEED (RMP) (Engine RPM) 775-800-825 not steady
VEH SPEED (MPH) (Vehicle Speed) 0
IGN ADV (*) (Timing Advance) 8.0 steady
IAT (*F) (Intake Air Temp) 111
MAF (LB/M) (Mass Air Flow) 0.38-39-40-41 not steady
ABSLT TPS (%) (Absolute Throttle Position) 0.0 steady
O2S11 (V) (O2 Sensor Concentration Bank1 Sensor1, Bank2 Sensor1) 0.140-150-160 not steady
ST FTRM11 (%) (Short Term Fuel Trim1) 0.0 steady
O2S12 (V) (O2 Sensor Concentration Bank1 Sensor2, Bank2 Sensor2) 0.310-320 not steady
OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA
Questions:
- The system is running OPEN loop, the ECU will not be utilizing any sensor data in this condition, is it true???
- With the engine at 210f the ECU should be in closed loop... Why not..., is it true???
With this data, can you help confirmed the spec figures of the fuel trims of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l???
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-12-2020
It must be in closed loop at idle and ,easy cruise.
so something is very wrong with your EFI.
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8 (this is huge number, means engine runs rich. and EFI must subtract lots of fuel to gain fuel mix right)
why loop the tool, on ) O2S11 (bank 1 sensor one (bank 2 is for V6 engine) you have no V6 engine and no bank 2, so that printout is wrong, calling it Bank 2.
s1 is front (focus on S1)
s2 is rear 02. ok. forget this.
loop the tool on the front 02 sensor, and set it to graphic mode,
https://fixkick.com/sensors/O2%20sensor/O2b1s1.jpg
here is real 0-scope (prof scope tek) as you can see a real scope does not miss swings. (the tool is super fast)
https://fixkick.com/smog/oxy2-2500rpm.jpg
at 3000 rpm what is the MAF reading. ? hot engine, only tests.
failure to attain closed loop means the ECU (EFI system) is lost.
it has lost control of fuel mix, one cause (of many are MAF readings are not correct or 02 Sensor #1 front #1 reads wrong)
the O2 must swing.
other causes, (vacuum leaks, leaking or weaK Injectors, misfire gross. and exhaust manifold cracks, )
how old is that 02 front sensor.? (they have 100,000+ mile life span if using unleaded fuel)
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-12-2020
(01-12-2020, 09:29 PM)fixkick Wrote: It must be in closed loop at idle and ,easy cruise.
so something is very wrong with your EFI.
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8 (this is huge number, means engine runs rich. and EFI must subtract lots of fuel to gain fuel mix right)
why loop the tool, on ) O2S11 (bank 1 sensor one (bank 2 is for V6 engine) you have no V6 engine and no bank 2, so that printout is wrong, calling it Bank 2.
s1 is front (focus on S1)
s2 is rear 02. ok. forget this.
loop the tool on the front 02 sensor, and set it to graphic mode,
https://fixkick.com/sensors/O2%20sensor/O2b1s1.jpg
here is real 0-scope (prof scope tek) as you can see a real scope does not miss swings. (the tool is super fast)
https://fixkick.com/smog/oxy2-2500rpm.jpg
Look at this OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA, it is something about California?? My car is federal.
at 3000 rpm what is the MAF reading. ? hot engine, only tests.
failure to attain closed loop means the ECU (EFI system) is lost.
it has lost control of fuel mix, one cause (of many are MAF readings are not correct or 02 Sensor #1 front #1 reads wrong)
the O2 must swing.
other causes, (vacuum leaks, leaking or weaK Injectors, misfire gross. and exhaust manifold cracks, )
how old is that 02 front sensor.? (they have 100,000+ mile life span if using unleaded fuel)
Thanks. So it all means my ecu stops working???
How can it be?? It could be my tool is not the right one?? The car just runs?
The engine is just 097394.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-13-2020
(01-12-2020, 09:44 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-12-2020, 09:29 PM)fixkick Wrote: It must be in closed loop at idle and ,easy cruise.
so something is very wrong with your EFI.
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8 (this is huge number, means engine runs rich. and EFI must subtract lots of fuel to gain fuel mix right)
why loop the tool, on ) O2S11 (bank 1 sensor one (bank 2 is for V6 engine) you have no V6 engine and no bank 2, so that printout is wrong, calling it Bank 2.
s1 is front (focus on S1)
s2 is rear 02. ok. forget this.
loop the tool on the front 02 sensor, and set it to graphic mode,
https://fixkick.com/sensors/O2%20sensor/O2b1s1.jpg
here is real 0-scope (prof scope tek) as you can see a real scope does not miss swings. (the tool is super fast)
https://fixkick.com/smog/oxy2-2500rpm.jpg
Look at this OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA, it is something about California?? My car is federal.
at 3000 rpm what is the MAF reading. ? hot engine, only tests.
failure to attain closed loop means the ECU (EFI system) is lost.
it has lost control of fuel mix, one cause (of many are MAF readings are not correct or 02 Sensor #1 front #1 reads wrong)
the O2 must swing.
other causes, (vacuum leaks, leaking or weaK Injectors, misfire gross. and exhaust manifold cracks, )
how old is that 02 front sensor.? (they have 100,000+ mile life span if using unleaded fuel)
Thanks. So it all means my ecu stops working???
How can it be?? It could be my tool is not the right one?? The car just runs?
The engine is just 097394.
not at all, you are not the first person on earth to have car problems just like this, it is SUPER COMMON in fact.
no it did not stop working , not at all
the ECU in your car will run in many modes,
not just one, it is not simple, this it a complex topic, EFI.
The ECU will lost and drop out of Closed loop for many reasons. (some are normal like cold engine or at wide open throttle)
the ECU CAN fail to reach closed loop for just 1 crack near the o2 front sensor, what could be more simple? a crack . or 02 bad
you never answered my 1 questions is O2 front new? or original, or even the wrong one.
do you know what closed loop means?>
it is simple the ECU reads the O2 sensor and uses what it reads there, to adjust injection fuel rates (flow). in computer loop, or as engineers say a SERVO loop.
here is fake pseudo code. (ecu processor code(firmware)
1: read O2 front.
2: check AFR, (air fuel ratio (math)
3: adjust fuel to attain, 14.7: 1 AFR< air fuel ratio by changing injector PWM rates (more math)
4: if rates go to STOICH (14.7:1) ratio good, if not closed loop ends. and set status flag for failed for close loop false.
5: go to #1 (this is the loop thing in all computers, a jump we call it. (crude)
This is how all cars with EFI run. This also lower smog emissions to lowest, and max fuel economy. both, that is why we have EFI, for these 2 reason.
the ECU can also go to limp home mode if sensors fail.
why not ask your shop to look in to loss of closed loop , a good shop can find it easy, doing test.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 06:17 AM)fixkick Wrote:(01-12-2020, 09:44 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-12-2020, 09:29 PM)fixkick Wrote: It must be in closed loop at idle and ,easy cruise.
so something is very wrong with your EFI.
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8 (this is huge number, means engine runs rich. and EFI must subtract lots of fuel to gain fuel mix right)
why loop the tool, on ) O2S11 (bank 1 sensor one (bank 2 is for V6 engine) you have no V6 engine and no bank 2, so that printout is wrong, calling it Bank 2.
s1 is front (focus on S1)
s2 is rear 02. ok. forget this.
loop the tool on the front 02 sensor, and set it to graphic mode,
https://fixkick.com/sensors/O2%20sensor/O2b1s1.jpg
here is real 0-scope (prof scope tek) as you can see a real scope does not miss swings. (the tool is super fast)
https://fixkick.com/smog/oxy2-2500rpm.jpg
Look at this OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA, it is something about California?? My car is federal.
at 3000 rpm what is the MAF reading. ? hot engine, only tests.
failure to attain closed loop means the ECU (EFI system) is lost.
it has lost control of fuel mix, one cause (of many are MAF readings are not correct or 02 Sensor #1 front #1 reads wrong)
the O2 must swing.
other causes, (vacuum leaks, leaking or weaK Injectors, misfire gross. and exhaust manifold cracks, )
how old is that 02 front sensor.? (they have 100,000+ mile life span if using unleaded fuel)
Thanks. So it all means my ecu stops working???
How can it be?? It could be my tool is not the right one?? The car just runs?
The engine is just 097394.
the ECU CAN fail to reach closed loop for just 1 crack near the o2 front sensor, what could be more simple? a crack . or 02 bad
you never answered my 1 questions is O2 front new? or original, or even the wrong one.
I have never touched this, so not sure if it is old, new, original or even the wrong one?? However, it is four wires sensor at the header, two white wires, one grey wire and one black wire. I have never seen any codes thrown relating to this O2 before.
What is the correction to this?? Shops here seem to have no clue regarding this issue. Is it the downstream or the upstream?? The one at the header or the one after the cat??
This 1.8l engine is just 097394 miles on the odometer. Probably my air filter is dirty?? I tried to unclip the sensor at the header, not possible at all. Can you show the pic with the lock??? It is also difficult to see the crack at the header? Probably a tiny hair. https://imgur.com/6CAiP63 This pic is the center between the third pipe and fourth pipe. Is it really a crack to the fourth pipe??? If it does, can it be welded back??? This is the OEM header.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 09:05 AM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 06:17 AM)fixkick Wrote:I have never touched this, so not sure if it is old or new or original or even wrong one?? However, it is four wires sensor at the header. But I have never seen any codes thrown relating to the O2. What is the correction to this?? Shops here seem to have no clue regarding this issue. Is it downstream or upstream??? The one at the header or after the cat??(01-12-2020, 09:44 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-12-2020, 09:29 PM)fixkick Wrote: It must be in closed loop at idle and ,easy cruise.
so something is very wrong with your EFI.
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8 (this is huge number, means engine runs rich. and EFI must subtract lots of fuel to gain fuel mix right)
why loop the tool, on ) O2S11 (bank 1 sensor one (bank 2 is for V6 engine) you have no V6 engine and no bank 2, so that printout is wrong, calling it Bank 2.
s1 is front (focus on S1)
s2 is rear 02. ok. forget this.
loop the tool on the front 02 sensor, and set it to graphic mode,
https://fixkick.com/sensors/O2%20sensor/O2b1s1.jpg
here is real 0-scope (prof scope tek) as you can see a real scope does not miss swings. (the tool is super fast)
https://fixkick.com/smog/oxy2-2500rpm.jpg
Look at this OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA, it is something about California?? My car is federal.
at 3000 rpm what is the MAF reading. ? hot engine, only tests.
failure to attain closed loop means the ECU (EFI system) is lost.
it has lost control of fuel mix, one cause (of many are MAF readings are not correct or 02 Sensor #1 front #1 reads wrong)
the O2 must swing.
other causes, (vacuum leaks, leaking or weaK Injectors, misfire gross. and exhaust manifold cracks, )
how old is that 02 front sensor.? (they have 100,000+ mile life span if using unleaded fuel)
Thanks. So it all means my ecu stops working???
How can it be?? It could be my tool is not the right one?? The car just runs?
The engine is just 097394.
the ECU CAN fail to reach closed loop for just 1 crack near the o2 front sensor, what could be more simple? a crack . or 02 bad
you never answered my 1 questions is O2 front new? or original, or even the wrong one.
The engine is just 097394 miles. Probably my air filter is dirty??
the front sensor is called sensor 1, front, or upstream. it controls fuel mixture.
the rear sensor called sensor 2, or rear or down stream or rear cat sensor has nothing to do with fuel mixture, it only does the CAT tests. all cars 96 , up , petrol or gasoline.
on all machines you can only do 3 things, do tests, guess or just ignore it.
your choice.
my guess is that you drive it for such short distances the OBD2 monitors never fully run, to find the more advance checks failing. like fuel trim , not right.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 12:47 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 09:05 AM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 06:17 AM)fixkick Wrote:I have never touched this, so not sure if it is old or new or original or even wrong one?? However, it is four wires sensor at the header. But I have never seen any codes thrown relating to the O2. What is the correction to this?? Shops here seem to have no clue regarding this issue. Is it downstream or upstream??? The one at the header or after the cat??(01-12-2020, 09:44 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-12-2020, 09:29 PM)fixkick Wrote: It must be in closed loop at idle and ,easy cruise.
so something is very wrong with your EFI.
LT FTRM1 (%) (Long Term Fuel Trim1) -14.8 (this is huge number, means engine runs rich. and EFI must subtract lots of fuel to gain fuel mix right)
why loop the tool, on ) O2S11 (bank 1 sensor one (bank 2 is for V6 engine) you have no V6 engine and no bank 2, so that printout is wrong, calling it Bank 2.
s1 is front (focus on S1)
s2 is rear 02. ok. forget this.
loop the tool on the front 02 sensor, and set it to graphic mode,
https://fixkick.com/sensors/O2%20sensor/O2b1s1.jpg
here is real 0-scope (prof scope tek) as you can see a real scope does not miss swings. (the tool is super fast)
https://fixkick.com/smog/oxy2-2500rpm.jpg
Look at this OBD2 STAT (OBD Status) CA, it is something about California?? My car is federal.
at 3000 rpm what is the MAF reading. ? hot engine, only tests.
failure to attain closed loop means the ECU (EFI system) is lost.
it has lost control of fuel mix, one cause (of many are MAF readings are not correct or 02 Sensor #1 front #1 reads wrong)
the O2 must swing.
other causes, (vacuum leaks, leaking or weaK Injectors, misfire gross. and exhaust manifold cracks, )
how old is that 02 front sensor.? (they have 100,000+ mile life span if using unleaded fuel)
Thanks. So it all means my ecu stops working???
How can it be?? It could be my tool is not the right one?? The car just runs?
The engine is just 097394.
the ECU CAN fail to reach closed loop for just 1 crack near the o2 front sensor, what could be more simple? a crack . or 02 bad
you never answered my 1 questions is O2 front new? or original, or even the wrong one.
The engine is just 097394 miles. Probably my air filter is dirty??
the front sensor is called sensor 1, front, or upstream. it controls fuel mixture.
the rear sensor called sensor 2, or rear or down stream or rear cat sensor has nothing to do with fuel mixture, it only does the CAT tests. all cars 96 , up , petrol or gasoline.
on all machines you can only do 3 things, do tests, guess or just ignore it.
your choice.
my guess is that you drive it for such short distances the OBD2 monitors never fully run, to find the more advance checks failing. like fuel trim , not right.
Thanks. What about the crack?? I have attached the pic?
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - fixkick - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 03:24 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:47 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 09:05 AM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 06:17 AM)fixkick Wrote:I have never touched this, so not sure if it is old or new or original or even wrong one?? However, it is four wires sensor at the header. But I have never seen any codes thrown relating to the O2. What is the correction to this?? Shops here seem to have no clue regarding this issue. Is it downstream or upstream??? The one at the header or after the cat??(01-12-2020, 09:44 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote: Thanks. So it all means my ecu stops working???
How can it be?? It could be my tool is not the right one?? The car just runs?
The engine is just 097394.
the ECU CAN fail to reach closed loop for just 1 crack near the o2 front sensor, what could be more simple? a crack . or 02 bad
you never answered my 1 questions is O2 front new? or original, or even the wrong one.
The engine is just 097394 miles. Probably my air filter is dirty??
the front sensor is called sensor 1, front, or upstream. it controls fuel mixture.
the rear sensor called sensor 2, or rear or down stream or rear cat sensor has nothing to do with fuel mixture, it only does the CAT tests. all cars 96 , up , petrol or gasoline.
on all machines you can only do 3 things, do tests, guess or just ignore it.
your choice.
my guess is that you drive it for such short distances the OBD2 monitors never fully run, to find the more advance checks failing. like fuel trim , not right.
Thanks. What about the crack?? I have attached the pic?
that crack looks to ,me to only in the web, not into the tube, did you inspect the back side too with a mirror, it must not leak air in to the exhaust ports .
but I'd never guess what is going on there, . only you can do the inspections.
does the CL closed loop only fail at idle, try testing it at 2500 steady,, even parked. hot. scanning only at idle is not good enough.
RE: Help confirm the data of 96 Sidekick Sport 1.8l - rasmeidirt - 01-14-2020
(01-13-2020, 10:58 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 03:24 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:47 PM)fixkick Wrote:(01-13-2020, 09:05 AM)rasmeidirt Wrote:(01-13-2020, 06:17 AM)fixkick Wrote: the ECU CAN fail to reach closed loop for just 1 crack near the o2 front sensor, what could be more simple? a crack . or 02 badI have never touched this, so not sure if it is old or new or original or even wrong one?? However, it is four wires sensor at the header. But I have never seen any codes thrown relating to the O2. What is the correction to this?? Shops here seem to have no clue regarding this issue. Is it downstream or upstream??? The one at the header or after the cat??
you never answered my 1 questions is O2 front new? or original, or even the wrong one.
The engine is just 097394 miles. Probably my air filter is dirty??
the front sensor is called sensor 1, front, or upstream. it controls fuel mixture.
the rear sensor called sensor 2, or rear or down stream or rear cat sensor has nothing to do with fuel mixture, it only does the CAT tests. all cars 96 , up , petrol or gasoline.
on all machines you can only do 3 things, do tests, guess or just ignore it.
your choice.
my guess is that you drive it for such short distances the OBD2 monitors never fully run, to find the more advance checks failing. like fuel trim , not right.
Thanks. What about the crack?? I have attached the pic?
that crack looks to ,me to only in the web, not into the tube, did you inspect the back side too with a mirror, it must not leak air in to the exhaust ports .
but I'd never guess what is going on there, . only you can do the inspections.
does the CL closed loop only fail at idle, try testing it at 2500 steady,, even parked. hot. scanning only at idle is not good enough.
Thank you very much for this. I used a touch, a mirror and even a magnifying device to have a look. On the back, it is more or less in the middle like the front picture. I tried to clean it and start the car to get it hot and dried in order to see it clearly. Are there any other ways to test it???
This is the picture of my Sport's current CAT https://imgur.com/cH13Ry5 The previous owner had changed it and I have just noticed it. I have no idea what is inside?? Does it have anything to do with the run rich engine??? Or make the car smell the burning gas at the back???
After cleaning the front crack https://imgur.com/r91X0Jx and the back crack looks a bit longer than the front https://imgur.com/6qSbIhO Anyway, where there is crack there is a leak. That is what I believe!!