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+--- Thread: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. (/thread-fuel-traces-in-egr-valve)
Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - Amf3ar - 01-12-2019
Hi all
I'm from Italy so I'm sorry if my english isnt perfect
I own a 8v '93 sidekick that needs some repairs.
My EGR valve was clogged on "close" so I decided to replace it with a working one.
The problem is after I pulled off the old valve, I noticed traces of fuel in the lower hole.
It is normal?
Another thing...the car makes lots of smoke from the exhaust even if the car is at idle temp...
Here is the photo of the EGR valve.
Thanks for all your great guides!
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - fixkick - 01-12-2019
welcome to Mr Italy to USA. (texas)
you have flooding, the EGR is the minor part wrong, if it closes its ok.
first make sure the single injector does not leak just as the moment of key off.
air horn on the top of the throttle body can be left off (removed) to look and test all this and watch it live.
the o-ring pair on the injector sides (removed) can crack this old.
the car has simple EGR, easier to clean , those paths, and new valve or clean the old one.
fuel there raw is not normaL, UNLESS ENGINE CRAnKING OVER AND ALL 4 SPARK PLUGS REMOVED (WIRES)
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - Amf3ar - 01-12-2019
Hi and thanks for your fast answer!
I already checked o-rings of the injector.. They are ok.
So should I see if the injector leaks simply turning on the key with no crank, or should I start the car and see if it leaks after shutoff?
Should I do this test after removing the injector from his housing?
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - fixkick - 01-12-2019
yah tricky that is, the key on sends a prime pulse to the injector each key on but runs the pump for 3 seconds
so yes, key on see tiny squirt and must end. or no squirt at all , the prime pulse is to purge air from the lines.
key on
does CEL glow? it must then go out running,does it.
then insert the diagnostic jumper, does the CEL flash 12 (means good)
or falshes errors.
enjector out of housing ,NOT, that will flow huge gas flows from tank to face. huge values for 3 seconds,never to that.
just look in the air horn and see if inector turns off key off. instanty, as RPM spool to zero RPM no leaking fuel. 800 to zero RPM
flooding has many causes.
injector leaks
someone hacked the injector wires, to cure bad ECU. (2 WIRES ,TO INJECTOR RED/YELL, NOT MOLESTED)
fuel pressure way too high. (FPR STUCK CLOSED TO REASON AND BAD)
ECT reads 10,000 ohms all the time, not 300 hot.
02 stuck leaN (deAD) AND ECU SWINGS FULL RICH
ECU IN LIMPHOME MODE.
WHEN YOU KEY OFF A RUNNING MPI OR TBI INJECTION SYSTEM THE FUEL ENDS now, NO DELAY. NO FUEL WILL ACCUMULATE.
FUEL ENDS NEAR THE SPEED OF LIGHT + THE INJECTOR PiNTEL VALVE DELAY OF 5Ms. SO 5 MILLISECONDS THEY TURN OFF. YAH FAST.
ABOUT 10 TIMES FASTER THAN EYE LID BLINKING SPEED. FAST.
YOUR efi is stick and so is Egr
THIS IS COMMON, IN FACT MANY PARTS DEAD THE ECU RUN IN limphome mode and runs rich as a pig and huge loss of power.
lots of black smoke and a red hot CAT. converter.
see the injector signal here... 0.7ms to just on dead time. the delay to start moving the injector.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/TBI-pwm-wave1%20.jpg
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - Amf3ar - 01-12-2019
:O so many informations! Great thanks!
Well...my ECU was repaired just few months ago.
12 code so no error (already checked).
Tomorrow I'll try the injector test to see if is faulty.
I'll put the clogged EGR again until I get rid of this fuel leak there.
I didnt tested the fuel pressure...I just replaced the tank, fuel filter and fuel pump with new ones.
The fuel pump is a 3.35bar one. The seller said it's the right one for my car.
Those problems went out after a mechanic cleaned the Throttle body system.
After that the ECU failed.
After te ECU was repaired the car started but I noticed that smoke out of the exhaust...
After 3-4miles the car stopped. Crank but no start.
The fuel pump was dead.
After all those things I decided to do all by myself cause I dont thrust anymore mechanics here lol
But now I must get rid of all those problems.
So glad for your precious help
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - fixkick - 01-12-2019
black smoke is wrong, dead wrong. on this EFI car. at tail pipe. white is a whole other matter (steam or oil burning)
do the ECT test first?
get engine hot.
180f is standard thermostat rating, be wise not to run any 23 year themostat. 5 years/. par, 10 max. depends if daily driven or 1 per week
with engine fully hot.
stop it engine, key off , work fast, 15min time frame.
remove the ect connector from ECT sensor (2pin sensor ) but not the IAT sensor nor the AC overheat sensor no.
do not force the ect connector lock, squeeze the locking lever and pull gently and wiggle it out.
then with any DMM in hand select OHMS mode. test the 2 pins for 300 ohm hot. test probes land on ECT naked pins , at ECT side.
id never trust any 23 year old ECT. nor thermostat.
In Europe finding the right ECT can be a pain, with 4 engine types that year.
ECT test 2, more easy, but I use back probing needles.
if you know how to back probe connectors.
back probe the sensor ECT enigine running normal hot, and see 0.65vdc.
any voltage higher is a bad thermostat or bad Ect. (WE USE AN IR THERMO GUN TO KNOW WHICH IT IS)
We can do this 1 test at time, no problema.
horror #1 this car this year, the horror of strange intake manifold
more exactly the the old and new, manifolds changed
the DEEP thermstat housing must match the correct, thermostat.
using the old why will fail.
covered fully here
http://www.fixkick.com/Cooling-engine/Frigid-motor-cab.html
the 4mm lip,must use a rubber ring, seal of the thermostat floats and goes crazy, or runs cold.
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - Amf3ar - 01-12-2019
The smoke is white, and there is alot of fluid like water going off the exhaust...even after the car is at idle temp.
The ECT sensor (the green one iirc) was replaced with a new one.
I replaced it just cause the car is old...just to be sure. But there were no sings of bad cooling.
The problem was the cold idle.
RPMs id not stay at 1500 automatically as it should be.
As the engine start (cold engine) they just go to 1000, then 800, then after few sec raising to 1200 but they're not stable.
Is seems like the car having prolem with the fast idle when cold.
Well. Today I have to work, but tomorrow I'll try to put the old one to see if makes any difference.
Car parts sellers here makes ALOT of mistakes...expecially finding parts for old cars...
Anyway...after the car is at idle temp I have a stable 850rpm min.
The mechanic also did a reg to valve.
Can a wrong valve regulation cause those problems?
I'm really thinking to take off all the throttle body and sensor and take aloor at valve leash just to be sure...
PS: my car is a '93 vitara CAMI. It was build in Canada for german market, then imported here in italy.
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - fixkick - 01-12-2019
you said black smoke before,
white steam on cold day is normal on all cars, watch your neighbors back out of garage, burning petrol , the product of combustion is H20, or steam.
steam is white, and ends later, hot fully hot engine
white smoke that lingers a long time and smells like burning oil is just that, bad piston rings or bad intake valve seals.
now idle rules
the first fast idle is 15 seconds long max. the idle dash pot device on left rear of throttle body that and ends quickly
leaving this.
cold engine has no RPM rules but is 1000 to 1500 range, the IAC in the base of the throttle body leaks air and races idle .
then the coolant warms up and the IAC closes at 150F (65C) NOW IDLE IS 800, AND STAYS AT 800 AS long as AC is off
"the mechanic also did a reg to valve.
Can a wrong valve regulation cause those problems?" sure.
you mean VALVE ROCKeR GAP LASH?
this must be right and if set too tight , it will burn valves and make ECU go crazy. (vacuum readings bouncing is bad)
or some older Vitaras, head lamps off, blower cab off. and defrost rear glass heater off)
ok CAMI made ,E22 german market VIN.
the engine has coolant overflow tank, tat is 1/2 full of 50% water and antifreeze.
does it drop (discovered) each morning? what I mean do you have to keep adding 50% mix every day or week to this tank
no,good
yes,bad.
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - Amf3ar - 01-13-2019
Ouch, sry for my mystake about the smoke :/
Well, the coolant level seems quite stable. Yeah, I add it sometimes but not so much (every 800/1000km). But I'll keep an eye on these days.
The engine temperature seems ok (looking at the indicator atleast).
The smoke smells like ...yeah....unburned fuel...and is still present even after 15-20km at idle temp...it raise when I press the gas pedal.
And the exhaust keeps dripping water :/
The exhaust mainfold is broken, it has a little crack.
Another thing is as I pulled off the injector, there was alot of fuel coming out from it...
I'm thinking to operate those passages:
- take off the whole throttle body to replace o-rings and gaskets
- replace the injector with another one I have (as you said the fuel leak when engine is off is not ok)
- take off the whole intake for cleaning and replace gasket
- see if the ECT mounted is the right one and if seats correctly.
- replace the broken exhaust mainfold with the other one
- check valve reg (following the manual indications...0.15 in and 0.18/.020 out iirc).
After that should I reg the TPS again?
RE: Fuel traces in EGR Valve. - fixkick - 01-13-2019
(01-13-2019, 12:20 AM)Amf3ar Wrote: Ouch, sry for my mystake about the smoke :/
ok
Well, the coolant level seems quite stable. Yeah, I add it sometimes but not so much (every 800/1000km). But I'll keep an eye on these days.
very good, this.!!!!
The engine temperature seems ok (looking at the indicator atleast). it is only toy this guage, non instrument and not calibrated.
The smoke smells like ...yeah....unburned fuel...and is still present even after 15-20km at idle temp...it raise when I press the gas pedal.
this proves the engine runs rich....for sure. the spark tips may run black with carbon and all hard proof of rich as is gas raw falling out of egr port.
your EFI is cryng for help
MPG is bad, (fuel economy is 1/2 normal like this , is common)
And the exhaust keeps dripping water :/
ever heard of dew point? if the air outside is at dew point , you will see steam, but never a water fall at rear of car. ever.
The exhaust mainfold is broken, it has a little crack. (rear on 8v super rare it is very thing but this crack makes your 02 sensor diead and engine runs super rich. the air is 20% oxygen, so if that sucks into that crack as it surly will that air hits the 02 and it goes crazy....
Another thing is as I pulled off the injector, there was alot of fuel coming out from it...
do no do that , opening a pressurized efi fuel system.
the factory book covers how to depressurize the fuel rails. etc. we crank engine or run it live and pull the fuel pump relay and stave the engine,
I'm thinking to operate those passages:
- take off the whole throttle body to replace o-rings and gaskets (non of this ever cures rich ever (injector 2 o-rings only yes)
- replace the injector with another one I have (as you said the fuel leak when engine is off is not ok) ok, but I bet not it.
- take off the whole intake for cleaning and replace gasket, this will fix 1/2 the EGR path full of carbon, only.
- see if the ECT mounted is the right one and if seats correctly. (yes but test it)
- replace the broken exhaust mainfold with the other one(big time YES)
- check valve reg (following the manual indications...0.15 in and 0.18/.020 out iirc). ( valve lash,yes)
After that should I reg the TPS again? no.
first know that vacuum leaks on this car cause only racing idle
and full power and never will vacuum leaks case rich fueling
except one hose, the MAP hose from MAP to the intake must not be clogged or cracked or the MAP will read high and rich it willl GO.
get a new exhaust ,manifold even used are good. this is first first. thing,or the ECU will never inject correctly.
and a new 02, if not new now. they last 100k miles. =160kmeters.
next is ECT tests,. if not new.
and thermostat must be good and is low life span item. 7 years the top maker of this states, the wax pellet inside goes bad.