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+--- Thread: Clunk when coming to a stop (/thread-clunk-when-coming-to-a-stop)
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Clunk when coming to a stop - CSUSBgeochem1 - 06-12-2018
Hey kick!! Hope everything has been well with you. Our sidekick is running very well since the new head install. We drove it to Oregon and back no problem. One issue that has been going all along but i waited to take care of it was a clunk when coming to a stop.
Its something moving in the front axle or front portion of the vehicle because when you slow down slowly and come to a stop you can prevent it. sudden stops create the clunk. Im thinking one of the mounts is bad. The sidekick has a lift with differential drop brackets. there are two. one on either side of the front diff. Do i have to replace the entire bracket or can the rubber portion be pressed out and replaced?
I plan to replace both automatic transmission mounts as they are shot and the motor mounts will be replaced as well. There is a mount on the crossmember right near the oil pan i cant identify. what would be the name of that mount??
What do you think of the issue? Thanks for your help!
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - fixkick - 06-13-2018
same to you sir !
Noises are the most hard of all things to diagnose.
At least you know what end makes noise,
testing for noise is super dangerous,(on the fly tests, we use a wired or wireless stethoscope, making this safe.)
what car is this, is it 4wd seems yes, you said front axle, G16 engine 4wd, and 2doors? 3sp or 4speed trans? auto.
I have a noise page? see that? type noise in the fixkick.com search box.
the first rule is not assume its X,y or Z.
The first test is visual.look for damage or extreme rust damage. on moving suspension parts.
These cars are old now (up to 29 years old in fact), all have problems every one, if you look deep enough.
We dont even see these cars at all now , down south,
1: visual
2: feel tests. this means using a prybar, flex parts that most not move in odd ways, all mounts are test this way, flex and look,.
3: remove the locking front axle hubs. does the noise end? now? this is a huge clue.
4: the CVs dont last this long. never seen one last if the car us used in 4wd much, but some are never used in 4wd so... matters this.
5: wheel bearings are .002" play is normal at the bearing, point. if more the bearings are bad. end search.
6: struts bad. not easy to test. most only make noise with extreme flexing , not possible by hand. or the lower ball is bad, this test is easy.
youtube how to test ball joints by flexing them.
7: the other joints and mounts you stated, can fail, and some 4wd offroad shops sold upgrade kits for them called Poly kits. but many stores now like this go
what is a suzuki, but my guess is not all . (suzuki in usa is like Yugo,Daewoo,volvo?, Isuzu, etc, not sold now here) making parts hard to find now.
8: Suzuki does have parts sales still, but are expensive and many are listed as Discontinued. (after market parts , some are plenty, shocks, struts, brakes etc.
9: brakes ever see front caliper guide pins seize? and the noises from that are ugly and even tire to ground locks ups possible. (cracked rotors?)
10 : U-joint's. if the front hub test end noises #3 above) then maybe the front drive prop shaft xfr case to axle pig is bad.
All mounts, the rubber inside is bonded to a steel hub. (we flex them to see if the bond is broken, flexing is normal but not if you see the bond is lost
or the rubber is breaking up inside (visual + flexed a hand lever ) a lever can be a crow bar or a wood dowel. that is strong.
Id be all over #3 and wheel bearings bad. or CV
please note I assume all 4wd locking hubs are now stuck and rusty, and looked up, so removing the whole hub at the outer screws
is the only sure way to test this idea. most autolocks are long long ago seized, they are near impossible to repair unlike manuals.
the ball joint test takes jacking up the bottom of the strut , with jack, and tire/wheel off.
then jack it up and down see if the ball joint play is out of spec, the FSM shows the limits here. (factory service manual the 96 book is same for all years)
the same trick near, works on wheel bearings
tire still; on
tire 1inch off ground pry bar under tire and garage floor, and then lever it, up and down see play? is wrong.
jerking tire leaf and right finds same errors in bearing that and all tie rods. they fail too. and make noise only when they want too, complex this is.
take car to a real suspension shop and 1hr later or less, bingo why,
the find this easy and fast. and far safer..
the only hard part of any suzuki is parts.
(not rubber/glass,belts/hoses,tuneup parts , not wipers/glass/ shocks, lamps,brakes and the like) the other parts that only fit suzuki and only they sold.
hard. (like finding wheel bearing hubs, oops or engine or trans parts, oops... mounts to are hard.)
http://www.fixkick.com/NOISE.html
(06-12-2018, 11:38 PM)CSUSBgeochem1 Wrote: Hey kick!! Hope everything has been well with you.
Our sidekick is running very well since the new head install.
We drove it to Oregon and back no problem.
One issue that has been going all along but i waited to take care of it was a clunk when coming to a stop.
Its something moving in the front axle or front portion of the vehicle, because when you slow down slowly and come to a stop you can prevent it.
sudden stops create the clunk.
Im thinking one of the mounts is bad.
The sidekick has a lift with differential drop brackets.
there are two.
one on either side of the front diff.
Do i have to replace the entire bracket or can the rubber portion be pressed out and replaced?
I plan to replace both automatic transmission mounts as they are shot and the motor mounts will be replaced as well.
There is a mount on the cross member right near the oil pan i cant identify. (that is easy , diff mounts, not just 1)
http://www.fixkick.com/axles/Pan-drop/pandrop.html
what would be the name of that mount??
What do you think of the issue? Thanks for your help!
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - CSUSBgeochem1 - 06-13-2018
Ok i will test everything you mentioned. The auto locking hubs were replaced with manuals that were functional. I remembered the cone washers as well. i will test these to see if they are the issue.
you can feel it in the cab when it hits. ill get back to you if i have any questions.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - fixkick - 06-13-2018
anticdotes. here are 2.
day 1, (of about 15 things wrong)
i look under car 1991,2dr/4wd.
the front left, "A" arm is ball joint attached and at 2 inboard ends to frame, the bolt on one point rear,was uscrewed say 10 turns.
eyeballs are like magic, looking for things lose or even tightening all man killers like that under car, Imagine the left wheel going side ways at 60mph.
same with brakes, we inspect brakes 100% even google the 100 point inspection system on cars, most shops do this, for a fee. cheep.
rusty brake lines.
calipers must slide on the pins if not this is a huge danger to any ones life. (my real jeeps have SST pins and are silicon greased and will never jam like this cheap car)
failure 2, of 15 there was, left rotor cracked, never drive with this. ever.
my buddy his rear, axle top wishbone brace mount was rusted trough, huge noise and random but rear axle bumps BOOM. (it will make noises when it wants, even braking)
the stories are endless, for sure on old cars and x100 that in the rust belt (wiki that phase if IDK)
No fuel leaks that means no rusty lines, or that top of tank rust that loves to happen, on this car.
no brakes bad, is next. or first. (depends on which is worse,?)
next is suspension damage of any kind.
and that includes the wheel bearings bad or the shop was STU-PID and hand set them to say 50lb force guessing, and will fail fast like that. have proof,
The front crush bearings must be set to spec, or hell to pay.
seen the rear axle trail link arm fail hard. left and right side just in front of rear wheels. unsafe at any speed this and all the above.
one more, the tank top mounts fails and the tank falls out of car,or nearly so.. very common on this car, for sure salt belt cars.
as the robot said. Danger Will Robinson.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - CSUSBgeochem1 - 06-16-2018
I enjoy how thorough you get because it gives me a plan of attack. I started with jacking up the driver side tire and gave it a good shove side to side and it looks like the steering linkages were all shot.....looks can be deceiving which is why you labeled visual as number 1. Everything looked bad but i wasn't sure if it was the culprit so i jacked up the tire. sure enough the center link and tie rods were shot and i could wobble the entire steering system all the way to the steering wheel shaft. NO GOOD. can you believe how much all those parts cost??? Not sure if i would rather pay more for a center link with joints or replace the idler and pitman if they included those joints.... This is the first design i have come across like this. Toyota has the joints on the idler/pitman and not the center link. i guess its easy to keep steering on par, but still expensive. so im fixing that right now and i will get back to you if it fixes the thud issue.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - fixkick - 06-17-2018
there you go ! nice work.
the tie rods have no play,
the ball joints have spec. play , ask.
ever look on rockauto.com
as least its the best place to see all the brands of parts sold for one car, one part.
best. IMO
why did you say pitman, its just shaft lever., solid drop forged hard steel. bit joint on the bottom end point will fail, and comes off.
you need press too to remove them, all,
a pickle fork tool will not work 99% of the time, for sure this OLD.
if a joint gets loose (tie rod ends) loose, that is telling you it is bad, and gets worse faster (due to the play) and if it gets worse you drop a rod.
why risk life, with the possible joint failing totally.
Ive never seen a car this old and high mileage with good rods. how is that? there are no zerk grease fitting on them (junk joints, IMO)
no grease lasts that long. so...
The alignment must be done after the job.
toe in for sure.
the steering gear box will have small play to, and is spec'd and is adjustable, to some degree.
you need to ask someone hands on to tell you at least what parts are bad.
tie rod ends sure, those are bad.
lots of things up front can clunk not just steering, in fact there my be 2 things bad or more up front, expect it.
the front as center link rod and idler arm and pitman (its not a toyota ,at all) no rack an pinion here, at all.
it has 2 tie rods
it has 6 tie ball rod joint to fail here, not counting 2 ball joint on the "A" arms and bad STRUTS, all of these parts can go clunk if bad.
The play adds up, too, so that too is a problem.
rods page. (page 5 shows the tool in action)
https://web.archive.org/web/20101119090009/http://acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v1-3b-2-pdf.htm
but what else there,
The ball joints on the bottom outside of the "A:" arms need to be checked for excessive play. need youtube on that> ,lots there.
one example is .002" ok, over 0.010" is bad, just a rough example. but is typical. its i the big book.
chapter 3C
https://web.archive.org/web/20101005073732/http://acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v1-3c-pdf.htm
shows how, to disassemble "A" Arm ,
no specs on page, torque yes.
steering wheel play is 10 t0 30mm max. per manual. (div, by 25.4 to get inches)
i could not find the suzuki ball joint play spec, in the book, dang.
The maker if the joints web page shows, no spring, joint and no play is normal. (load bearing joint)
http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/strut-your-knowledge-of-ball-joints/
(06-16-2018, 06:25 AM)CSUSBgeochem1 Wrote: I enjoy how thorough you get because it gives me a plan of attack. I started with jacking up the driver side tire and gave it a good shove side to side and it looks like the steering linkages were all shot.....looks can be deceiving which is why you labeled visual as number 1. Everything looked bad but i wasn't sure if it was the culprit so i jacked up the tire. sure enough the center link and tie rods were shot and i could wobble the entire steering system all the way to the steering wheel shaft. NO GOOD. can you believe how much all those parts cost??? Not sure if i would rather pay more for a center link with joints or replace the idler and pitman if they included those joints.... This is the first design i have come across like this. Toyota has the joints on the idler/pitman and not the center link. i guess its easy to keep steering on par, but still expensive. so im fixing that right now and i will get back to you if it fixes the thud issue.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - CSUSBgeochem1 - 06-25-2018
So after replacing all the steering components i figured out what might have made them go bad. Turns out the differential drop brackets were the culprit. i could take a pry bar and move them easily with the tires on the ground. Waiting for the new ones. Seems those parts are aftermarket only and only a few people make em here in the states. ill let you know if anything has been damaged due to this motion after i put the new ones on.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - CSUSBgeochem1 - 07-03-2018
ok kick Im in a hard spot. Im trying to find were i can come up with the bushing for the mount that goes from the front differential to the crossmember? The manual labels them as "bush" but i cant seem to place a name for them or where to find new ones. Is it a differential mount? differential bushings? a pinion mount? If you could please help out i would really appreciate it. I would really like to replace those bushings.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - fixkick - 07-03-2018
Okay
so its a single mount.
1991 8v engine 4wd.
what mount is it exactly.
you need to own a camera and add small photos to the gallery.
this?
http://www.fixkick.com/axles/Pan-drop/frontprop1.jpg
i bet this is it.
![[Image: 3_02_07_18_8_31_40.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_02_07_18_8_31_40.jpeg)
(07-03-2018, 09:36 AM)CSUSBgeochem1 Wrote: ok kick Im in a hard spot. Im trying to find were i can come up with the bushing for the mount that goes from the front differential to the crossmember? The manual labels them as "bush" but i cant seem to place a name for them or where to find new ones. Is it a differential mount? differential bushings? a pinion mount? If you could please help out i would really appreciate it. I would really like to replace those bushings.
RE: Clunk when coming to a stop - fixkick - 07-03-2018
order them from suzuki
use those p/n seen there.
be best.
unless offroad shops have it but those are rare now, on such old car. jeeps vast, sidekicks little. but I did not google long.