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+--- Thread: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions (/thread-16v-1-6l-bad-bog-questions)
16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - CSUSBgeochem1 - 01-11-2018
Hows it going FixKick!
I have a serious bog on my 95 sidekick 4 door 4x4 16v 1.6L california model. It was purchased like this and PO said it was cat. Removed cat and drove it catless and still bogged. Removed air filter..... still bogged. OK now on to the timing. The timing had slipped and i found the crank at around 10 oclock when the cam was lined up to the markers. I checked the keyway and it looked like one of the PO had done a fix and it looked fine (confirmed by several people on another forum).
I timed everything fine, even timed the distributor. I am fully capable of figuring these type of things out so im confident i did it right. I went on to dynamic timing and i noticed the freeze jumper is not holding it and it jumps between 6-10 btdc. started going through everything on your list and hit a wall and stopped at coolant temp (rain came and car is outside)
Anyway i guess i will go on with my question i figured you deserved some background. After the rain i started just testing things with my voltmeter as i could cover quite a few sensors in not that much time:
1# adjusted TPS exactly how you did, everything is good
#2 Air Temp Sensor: good, within spec
#3 ignition coil: good, within spec
#4 Idle Air Control valve: good (air passed with 12 volts to plug)
#5 Igniter........this is where the issue is. I didnt test it the way you did on your site i tested it to all the manuals you claim are wrong. they test the igniter itself
OC to G should have no continuity and when 3v is applied to IB then continuity should exist between OC and G. im having problems with this. I dont own a tester just a multimeter and mine does not have a beep function. When it is set to the most sensitive ohms setting (200) i get a number for a second then no continuity. This happen with both tests. i should maintain continuity with 3v but it goes to no continuity.
For a visual representation i included this link to a video i uploaded on a facebook forum. it should be visible to you.
https://www.facebook.com/ScienceISLife/videos/870307585856/
Now i dont know if this igniter is good or not and they are very expensive. without a way to actually test it how do i know if one is actually good. You test through the wire loom at the ECM. i just tested the module. There should be no difference in my mind besides slightly more resistance due to the length of wire. The igniter is very important in firing, and as i dont know if this will fix anything i would just like to know if everything with this igniter is ok or if it is junk.
I have yet to:
do a valve job
check fuel pressure
I will do these things immediately but if you happen to have any idea what the bog would be i would very much appreciate it. i have also included a link to a video of the engine bogging and the sound its making. maybe it will give you more of an idea. THANK YOU for your time and i hope to hear from you soon.
https://www.facebook.com/ScienceISLife/videos/869922482606/
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - fixkick - 01-11-2018
doing great, im fix'n a toilet today, not my fun day.... lol
good guess clogged melted cat.
but the cat test is easy with vacuum gage, type cat in my search box. (fixkick.com)
the freeze jump? sure.
only works hot engine, and idle at 800 or it self cancels, a suzuki suck idea and yeah real.... (puts you in a box ) and the idle switch most be at 0v,. (closed TPS) or freeze fails to activate
the manual test of igntor, is good, some books show it wrong, is all.
it is just a larger transistor with base(gate) clamp resistor but if sparks good so is it. fat strong spark.
did clean then test he MAF? that is a bog city device, and type maf in my search box,
do you have spec compression 180PSI? wot.? really that is first a good engine, then power can come on line EFI
lets see bogs (not heard, not felt or seen to misfire if it did misfire the sure (last) ignitor, coil, wire sets be 2nd after spark plugs ,cap and rotor.)
1: compression tests, x4 , sparks out, wot. is what, this is first on all old engine, after all if bad, many cars go to the wrecker just on this one test. saving a fortune on useless new parts.
2: fuel pressure is 2nd. here. no ECU will run with low pressure,. the FPR is tested for this step too as it seems all 90s kicks are now bad, endless FPR bad. now this OLD.
3: maf tests with a voltmeter. idle volts and gunned in neutral/park for max RPM for 1 second see max volts there. per maf page.
bog means low power only, like dragging a 1000 dead weight.
misfires too causes, loss of power, but is obvious that is not bogging after all its violent. misfire is violent. felt , heard and seen.
if you had low fuel pressure it bogs but does not misfire.
The FPR is dyname in this engine
as you reach full wot power, the vacuum falls to near zero and the FPR boost pressure (fuel) by about 6PSI,
this is because the injectors must fight the 14psi atmospheric pressure. of wot.
if the FPR jams at low fuel pressure, there will be no WOT power,. and most old FPR love to do that now, today. also first see its vacuum line (nipple) leaks fuel,. yes , bye bye FPR./
that is it back to toilet floats and fun LOL
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - fixkick - 01-11-2018
id need to hear engine cat on up a hill to judge sounds.
flogged.
the cat is ok, ive vacuum acts normal its ok.
the bad cat melts.
and the engine cant pump air.
the causes vacuum gage to go MAD !!! totally mad. compared to your other car, mad vacuum. it lags and does wild things. and weak
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - fixkick - 01-11-2018
if compression is good
we can fix it easy. i think
i hope the maf is not bad. $$$$$$$
clean it with maf cleaner CRC , back 6-8" far , never blast it close up, it's fragile.
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - CSUSBgeochem1 - 01-11-2018
Ok I will get on everything you say! Thank you so much. TPS tested perfect to your specs and I adjusted it right. I cleaned MAF correct just need to test it. And will get on testing fuel. I want to test it at rail so I can see what’s going on at the injectors. I will get back with the results. You have no idea how much I appreciate the help.
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - fixkick - 01-11-2018
the rail adaptor is like $10 , see my pump page, for ways to do that ,
you are welcome. !!!!
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - CSUSBgeochem1 - 01-15-2018
ok back with an update.
Conducted a compression check and got the following results.
dry oil
#1- 163 186
#2- 159 166
#3- 149 172
#4- 160 179
after doing so i decided to check the valve lash as the number two cylinder seemed like a valve issue. I relashed using your method of viewing each valve on their heel. Timed it all back to speck and conducted a second compression check, i didnt bother with the oil test this time though. also one of the number two valves seemed loose even though i lashed it to spec.
#1- 168
#2- 166
#3- 154
#4- 163
I tested the MAF per your page and everything seemed fine. i had .02 volts from black wire and 1.3 volts at grey wire with the key on. 2.02 volts with the engine at idle 800 rmp but it only got up to 2.75 volts when reved up in Park. the only other issue i found was a .3v drop from the battery voltage to the back of the blue/black wire. What are your thoughts on this? i just ordered the fuel rail adapter and a fuel pressure gauge to test the pressure. Anything else i can test while waiting? the sidekick does run a little smoother now that i did everything but does seem to run rich. when i start the car cold it hesitates and the rpms are at like 400 unless i gas the throttle and then the rpms kick up to idle.
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - fixkick - 01-16-2018
must be cold compression, what altitude? sea level or denver CO. levels?
oil ------dry
got it.
that shows bad rings. if you let the needle peak all by itself, but is a runner. for sure.
MAF pin Out list: (typ. 92-95’) USA ! models.
1--- Blue/black ---- Main +12vdc power (.3v less is OK , and very normal on the tiny weak wires SUZUKI uses.. all normal)
2--- Gray/black --- MAF output signal 1 to 5v , proportional to Air flow. B8
3--- Black ---------- Ground.
your maf is GOOD.
sure fuel pressure.
do fuel pressure, at key on , the idle and then gun engine.
Keyon is max)
idle less
and gun throttle tries to hit, keyon but cant, (only gunned) holding throttle open at 6000 rpm is a bad idle.. Ha HA> ! saying obvious.
to rice, unplug the O2 sensor, see if it runs better.
if 02 fails it loves to super rich on this engine, (way less in 1996 +)
or exhaust crack on #5 exhaust running, (stock manifold only) take off exhuast manifold shields yet and gander away (most show omg sad, here)
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - CSUSBgeochem1 - 01-16-2018
Those compression results were taken at normal operating temperature and 1800 ft in elevation. I did the math and optimum would have been around 183 psi.
once i receive the parts i will test the fuel pressure at the rail. it might take a week though. i did find a hairline crack in the cast manifold on the tube coming from the #4 cylinder. seems to circle around the back of the manifold. Should i worry about this?
while im waiting for parts i will test 02 sensor.
RE: 16v 1.6L Bad bog questions - fixkick - 01-16-2018
if that crack gets too wide it sucks air
in between every #4 PUTT,
this air is 20% Oxygen and makes the O2 go nuts, (reads (slams) to lean, ECU sees max lean and goes mAX rich to meet it. bad.
some buy high temp exhaust wrap tape to band aid it,,, ymmv. there.
1800ft and you are bingo good there.