(11-08-2016, 10:10 AM)CliveElliott Wrote: I have a Canadian 1990 Geo Tracker, 1.6 L 8V TBI, with 3-speed auto transmission and 4WD with 143K miles (220K km). Engine was swapped about 3 years ago and has about 120K km on it.

It starts fine and idles at about 800 rpm consistently, until I speed it up to 1500 or 2000 rpm; then it won't hold the idle speed after that - gradually slows down to 500 rpm, sputters a few times and stops. (I can easily keep it going using the throttle.) Sounds like eGR sticking open to me this.

Then it won't start - just cranks, and unflood mode doesn't help (i.e. throttle pressed to floor). Is this a fuel problem (e.g. pump or filter or bad fuel?), or could the ISC be dirty?
if it dont start check spark, if sparks gone check the VR gap i the distributor, this dizzy makes its own spark and timing.
the isc will not cause sputtering but would cause idle regulation to end. if it sticks.

I should mention that it coughs occasionally when I rev it - bad gas?? (It sat for months so we added some Seafoam and 2-3 gal more gas.)
how many months, 12 ,24?


Another quirk I should mention is that the throttle doesn't seem to control the engine as accurately as I would expect - engine speed sometimes changes without my moving the throttle, and is sometime slow to respond to throttle.
correct not normal, hot idle is regulated at 800 rpm (AC off)


It has new NGK cap/rotor/spark plugs and wires, new air filter and new ECT sensor. Compression is about 130 psi (cold, WOT) on all cylinders. (We are at 3500 ft altitude so it should be 135 psi hot).
correct 139, or as you said is ok at 3500'
map hose not clogged
, fuel filter ok?

(11-08-2016, 10:36 AM)fixkick Wrote:

(11-08-2016, 10:10 AM)CliveElliott Wrote: Thank you very much for your reply!!
I have a Canadian 1990 Geo Tracker, 1.6 L 8V TBI, with 3-speed auto transmission and 4WD with 143K miles (220K km). Engine was swapped about 3 years ago and has about 120K km on it.

It starts fine and idles at about 800 rpm consistently, until I speed it up to 1500 or 2000 rpm; then it won't hold the idle speed after that - gradually slows down to 500 rpm, sputters a few times and stops. (I can easily keep it going using the throttle.) Sounds like eGR sticking open to me this.

Then it won't start - just cranks, and unflood mode doesn't help (i.e. throttle pressed to floor). Is this a fuel problem (e.g. pump or filter or bad fuel?), or could the ISC be dirty?
if it dont start check spark, if sparks gone check the VR gap i the distributor, this dizzy makes its own spark and timing.
the isc will not cause sputtering but would cause idle regulation to end. if it sticks.

I should mention that it coughs occasionally when I rev it - bad gas?? (It sat for months so we added some Seafoam and 2-3 gal more gas.)
how many months, 12 ,24? 12 months


Another quirk I should mention is that the throttle doesn't seem to control the engine as accurately as I would expect - engine speed sometimes changes without my moving the throttle, and is sometime slow to respond to throttle.
correct not normal, hot idle is regulated at 800 rpm (AC off)
It does IDLE steadily at about 800 until I start playing with the throttle. What I mean is that when I move the gas peddle the engine speed doesn't respond accurately.

It has new NGK cap/rotor/spark plugs and wires, new air filter and new ECT sensor. Compression is about 130 psi (cold, WOT) on all cylinders. (We are at 3500 ft altitude so it should be 135 psi hot).
correct 139, or as you said is ok at 3500'
map hose not clogged Will look at your site to see how to check this.
, fuel filter ok? Not sure. My husband could check that; he's been too busy working on our other cars.

check engine light on , key on, then off running? yes
then use the diagnostic jumper clip and see if ECU flashes out 12s? code? for ok. yes, 12s and nothing else

if spark is not lost, usually as stall is, EGR stuck open. I see if the egr closes every time, you cut the throttle. ]I'll check your website re checking EGR. I hadn't done that yet because it looked a bit complicated for us non-mechanics.

or fuel pressure lost
or engine is flood, If it was flooded, wouldn't the "unflood mode" have an effect - causing it to at least try to fire? Unflood does nothing at all.

good luck ! thanks again!

(11-08-2016, 11:14 PM)fixkick Wrote: the 8v EGR
is in easy plain site below throttle body
just push the diaphragm metal ring in buy hand, that ring there , just push it and the valve opens (key off) and it then retracts under internal spring pressure.
Does the engine need to be up to operating temperature when performing this test? We did it while cold (60oF).
Do you mean the ring on the outside of the diaphragm? It doesn't budge. When we push the rubber diaphragm it moves about 1/16". But none of the metal parts around it move at all. Guess it needs cleaning!? If so, we'll follow the directions on your website. We've ordered a new gasket for it.

all suz, are noted for sticking EGR, its there THING.
The EGR flexs about 1/4" or 5mm .
i push it like 5 time to make sure it moves, and dose not hang. a new one makes thud sound as it seats closed.

the non responsive throttle will be, bogging lack of fuel issue or misfire, the former is a smooth lack of power the latter is misfire loss of power, and is violent, heard, felt and see engine shake. It's just slow in responding the to gas pedal, and sometimes smoothly slows down when I haven't moved the gas pedal at all. Nothing violent. Time to check fuel filter?
this fact above is key to diagnosis
as is pulling a spark plug and see if its white or black. or oil soaked. ready spark plugs sill works on today's gas engines.

12 codes means ECU is happy. good.

yes flooding will clear just like you said. (for sure the least try to fire statement) all accurate
not drivable is it. No. We can back it out the driveway and then it stalls and we have to wait for it to cool before we can restart it and drive it back into the driveway.
power lacks wide open throttle, parked and driven. right, if can be driven. Not sure what this sentence means
gas dont go bad in 12months, most dont....
does engine reach 180f coolant temp, and hold there? too hot to hold hand on upper rad hose? this is normal, less is bad. 150f very bad. Will check this. I understand from your website that the EGR doesn't work if engine is not hot enough.


if the DIZZy Misfires, see the real dizzy page here, and the VR gap http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/89-timing.html
I don't think it's misfiring. Just occasionally missing when I add throttle (once or twice a minute) - perhaps a bit of water in the gas? Cap and rotor are new and good quality.

its noted for wild failures and heat soak failures. the VR and the ignition inside, can go bad, or worse , intermittent or wild results.

cheers to you from texas
Thanks again for your very valuable help. It's an honor to be talking to the author of your amazing website.

Not sure what this sentence means

Thanks again for your very valuable help. It's an honor to be talking to the author of your amazing website.

(11-11-2016, 11:22 AM)fixkick Wrote: the 8v EGR
is in easy plain site below throttle body
just push the diaphragm metal ring in buy hand, that ring there , just push it and the valve opens (key off) and it then retracts under internal spring pressure.

Does the engine need to be up to operating temperature when performing this test? We did it while cold (60oF).
Do you mean the ring on the outside of the diaphragm? yes, It doesn't budge. When we push the rubber diaphragm it moves about 1/16". do not push rubber, push only the ring, (center part) there is a skeltonized frame there.
But none of the metal parts around it move at all. Guess it needs cleaning!? If so, we'll follow the directions on your website. We've ordered a new gasket for it.
this EGR can stick hot or cold, open and if it does, idle drops (hot) below 800rpm.,even as low a 400. or stalls.

all suz, are noted for sticking EGR, its there THING.
The EGR flexs about 1/4" or 5mm .
i push it like 5 time to make sure it moves, and dose not hang. a new one makes thud sound as it seats closed.

the non responsive throttle will be, bogging lack of fuel issue or misfire, the former is a smooth lack of power the latter is misfire loss of power, and is violent, heard, felt and see engine shake. It's just slow in responding the to gas pedal, and sometimes smoothly slows down when I haven't moved the gas pedal at all. Nothing violent. Time to check fuel filter? sure, if the filter is clogged, it may only idle and not be drivable.
this fact above is key to diagnosis
as is pulling a spark plug and see if its white or black. or oil soaked. ready spark plugs sill works on today's gas engines.

12 codes means ECU is happy. good.

yes flooding will clear just like you said. (for sure the least try to fire statement) all accurate
not drivable is it. No. We can back it out the driveway and then it stalls and we have to wait for it to cool before we can restart it and drive it back into the driveway. ,ok got you, not enough power to drive car.



power lacks wide open throttle, parked and driven. right, if can be driven. Not sure what this sentence means
sorry, was hoping you can gun the throttle parked, in and get full throttle rpms... 3500 or more. just for a second, hot.




gas dont go bad in 12months, most dont....
does engine reach 180f coolant temp, and hold there? too hot to hold hand on upper rad hose? this is normal, less is bad. 150f very bad. Will check this. I understand from your website that the EGR doesn't work if engine is not hot enough.
nor does the IAC close ,nor does ECU go to hot engine fuel mix. if coolant does not get hot, .
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if the DIZZy Misfires, see the real dizzy page here, and the VR gap http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/89-timing.html
I don't think it's misfiring. Just occasionally missing when I add throttle (once or twice a minute) - perhaps a bit of water in the gas? Cap and rotor are new and good quality.

its noted for wild failures and heat soak failures. the VR and the ignition inside, can go bad, or worse , intermittent or wild results.

cheers to you from texas
Thanks again for your very valuable help. It's an honor to be talking to the author of your amazing website.

I spent half and hour writing a reply, then saved it as a draft, and now I can't find my draft.

Sure enough, the ring on the inboard side of the diaphragm snaps in an out, but only about 1/16". So I guess it needs cleaning.

my honor, ! to help you.